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aviation_enthus
1st Oct 2008, 03:35
Hi All

I've had a bit of a look around here and found any info on AirNorth is a bit scarce. Also rang the HR department and found it hard to get any info.

Anyone know anything?
-Base Pay?
-Bond? (pro rata?)
-Staff travel (is there such a thing)
-Progression
-Work environment?

All information is welcome!!

PS - Feel free to PM me if so inclined

beaver_boy
8th Jan 2009, 03:56
I am looking for some T&C aswell and seems everyone is a bit shy.....
Anyone?

RENURPP
8th Jan 2009, 07:02
Guess why? :ooh:

Yusef Danet
8th Jan 2009, 21:19
Good staff travel, oddly have access to both Qantas and VB.

(If I can't say anything nice I try not to say anything)

Stationair8
8th Jan 2009, 21:25
Crew meals seem pretty good.

beaver_boy
9th Jan 2009, 01:59
That's it? No more than "Guess why?" and "Crew meals seem good"
surely there must be more of you that know SOMETHING......

RENURPP
9th Jan 2009, 04:20
I am only guessing. I suspect they are the bottom of the jet barrell.

In the past they used to add their super and all the other extras (meal allowance etc etc) to the salary to make it look like a reasonable package. i.e. $100,000 + super = $109,000.

The silence itself should tell a story. :ooh:

Fom the outside, the E170 would be OK, home every night, the foods Ok apparantly :8 staff travel:rolleyes: (useless these days with all the LCC around) $$$ poor, all the other problems in GA like roster changes by the minute, U./S, whats unserviceable mean :eek: Its not a career, its a retirement job in the tropics or a stepping stone.

Yusef Danet
9th Jan 2009, 05:21
Loooong time to get to the jet.

Dog One
9th Jan 2009, 08:27
Can't be too bad, heard about 5 of their experienced Bras Captains are moving over to the jet as F/o's.

ITCZ
9th Jan 2009, 18:13
Can't be too bad, heard about 5 of their experienced Bras Captains are moving over to the jet as F/o's.
Can't be too bad?

They are all guys that started in Darwin when you could buy a house for less than $200k.

5 years to Ejet FO is not even slow, baby, it is glacial!
Also rang the HR department and found it hard to get any info.
Take your hint from that. A "HR department" that usually consists of one office johnnie or former flight attendant with no HR training. Cannot even answer basic questions from pilot applicants!

Do you need to know any more? :rolleyes:

Straight seniority under a union collective agreement. No fast tracking. It will be years to progress to a modest wage as an FO on an Ejet.

Home every night? Where does TL418/411 end up? Groote Eylandt :eek:

The collective agreement used to be available for viewing online at the australian workplace authority website.

Dog One
9th Jan 2009, 21:56
Must have been the Groote overnight that caused the move across, it would appear the jet doesn't overnight, it just flys most nights. Incidently ITCZ, I didn't realise that they had had the jet for 5 years, thought it was much later than that.

Dog One
10th Jan 2009, 02:33
Just picked up a copy of Australian Aviation (Jan). Interesting article on Airnorth which may be of interest to the origintor of this thread for background. If you are really interested in a job, and meet the requirements, ring them directly and ask for the details you want. My information sourced from the BRM refueller, who got it from a Virgin F/O, who got it from the ML refueller, whose sister works for Skywest in PH, and who got it from the DN refueller is that they are recruiting.

Capt Claret
10th Jan 2009, 03:38
Dog One said, ring them directly and ask for the details you want.

but aviation_enthus said in his originating post, Also rang the HR department and found it hard to get any info.
:ugh::ugh: :confused: :confused:

ITCZ
10th Jan 2009, 06:16
Clarrie > thanks, but no dramas. Dog brains isn't into comprehension.

D1 > a question for you, to help out our mate that asked the original question.

** Name the AirNorth E170 pilots that had less than 5 years in the company when they got their left or right seat on the jungle jet. **

Fetch!

aviation_enthus > Airnorth has a pretty solid union collective agreement (UCA) in place. There is a bond for all types, from memory it is high but fair. Because the bond is in the UCA, it is easy for airnorth to enforce, so expect to pay it if you don't plan to stay.

As RENURPP says, staff travel is 'something - nothing' in DRW. Its almost useless. There is only one flight per destination per airline per day, max. Try getting a seat on a day that you would like to travel -- difficult. Then, turn up at the airport at 1am -- Get bumped, and go home wait another day.

Work environment? There are some great guys and gals on the line at AirNorth, but you can say that just about anywhere. Operational support is in the 'do we really need that' category. Eg Making money hand over fist out of East Timor 1999-on, but no interest in putting a couple drums Water Meth at Dili AD to ensure single engined M23 performance when hot and heavy, the then deputy Chief telling pilots to apply the STC to aircraft that did not meet the equipment requirements. Professional development for pilots? Not unless you are prepared to do it yourself. Admin and day to day life? Take a tip from the HR department that can't answer simple questions from an interested pilot applicant.

If you want a steady metro job or a braz job, it pays the bills. No better or no worse than others, and a great town to live in -- if you can afford it.

If, as I suspect, a_e is 22 year old young gun with a desire to fly jets, there are better choices, IMHO.

Stationair8
10th Jan 2009, 07:31
Just think when your a boy flying the mighty C210 and C402 for Scarenorth, they were just another GA operator come along way since you left.

I suppose a man with your jet experience, wonder Bridgey doesn't offer you big dollars to jump ship.

Dog One
10th Jan 2009, 08:32
"5 years to Ejet FO is not even slow, baby, it is glacial!"

ITCHY, this is what you said. Now you change it to

** Name the AirNorth E170 pilots that had less than 5 years in the company when they got their left or right seat on the jungle jet. **

Different meanings. Go fetch your own bone!

According to my sources, some of the current FO's are going up for command shortly, which means that they have been on the type less than two years. More commands will occur with the second aircraft, and more again with the third aircraft.

So the long time could be a relatively short time for those next on the seniority list. I understand that the jet FO rate is slightly more than a Bras captain, hence the transfer across by Bras captains ready for jet command in the future.

Clarrie
It could be possible that A_E didn't meet the minimum requirements and HR didn't see the need to answer any further questions. I know several people from around Mebourne/Sydney who are sick of night freight and are figuring out how long for a DE M23 Captain to get onto the Bras with the eventual aim of the jungle jet.There has been several lenghty calls between them and HR.

Stationair8
10th Jan 2009, 09:01
E170 Captain within $5,000 of E190 Virgin driver.
Certainly better dollars than QLink B717 Captain , but then again National Debt have always been leaders in poor T&C's.

Capt Claret
10th Jan 2009, 12:21
slight thread drift here, but here goes ....

but then again National Debt have always been leaders in poor T&C's

A not so long ago departed pilot type, moving to greener jet pastures, said to me after reading his new contract, words to the effect, "you guys did well negotiating your terms and conditions. My greener pasture pays better on base pay but not on Ts&Cs."

ITCZ
10th Jan 2009, 12:27
Dog,

As they say in exam land... RTFQ.

Back at post#8, Yusef said...
Loooong time to get to the jet.
You replied...
Can't be too bad, heard about 5 of their experienced Bras Captains are moving over to the jet as F/o's.
... which conveniently ignored about 5 years each in company before those Bras Captains got to move!

The man was asking for advice, and your's was rubbish.

a_e is ringing AirNorth HR and asking questions about T+C.

Therefore, a_e is external.

If a_e gets in to said metro/braz/Ejet op, he/she will be starting at the end of the seniority queue.

So, whatever is happening to current Bras Captains don't mean sh!t for a_e.

5 years for him, baby.

And that, kiddo, is glacial.

Roll over! ;)

There is nothing wrong with airnorth. Take away the bullsh!t and its an ok company, ok aircraft, ok T+C (thanks in the main to a very determined and capable cadre of pilots who helped shape the UCA into one that rewards those that stay long term). Pretty good, but not great.

Thats fine, and a good match for the right guys. So don't bullsh!t to a guy that asks for details that there is a jet job there in the short term. If thats important to him, let him go to HK, etc.

If I am wrong, tell him how long he can expect to sit in a Metro or Braz, if he joins next week.

Certainly better dollars than QLink B717 Captain
ROTFL! Oh dear, stop, Stationair, stop, my sides are aching!!

RENURPP
10th Jan 2009, 20:31
Stationair 8, I can't recall you writing too much rubbish, it appears you made up for that in one post.E170 Captain within $5,000 of E190 Virgin driver.
Certainly better dollars than QLink B717 Captain , but then again National Debt have always been leaders in poor T&C's.
If this were true i would be absolutely astounded. I suspect it is simply bull ****e. remember a base wage does not = a package. Tell us the whole ScareNorth story.

As for leading the poor terms and conditions, Scare North have well and truly lead the way in that department. Please tell me who pays less than NJS.
Can I start
SkyAir, Scare north, SkyWest, Alliance ??

My pay this year is $136 base next year estimate round $145 remember thats base rate. I havent done the Scare North thing and added the super and allowances to make it sound like you can feed the dog.

As for more expansion, I suspect Bridge is desperately looking for a way out of the following jets or going to start a child care centre in them. With SkyAir operating darwin Dilli and beyond, McCarthr river all but sunk for the moment, Bali gone to Jetstar what are they going to do with 3 jets except bleed $$$$. ScareNorth have never NEVER been able to compete against other company's on the same routes. I don't believe anything has changed.This is not an inovative company. Guess why Patick/Toll have a dash 8 in Darwin, why did the Timor govt go with Skyair. Simply because AirNorth are unable to live up to their talk. Rubbish service and unreliable.

the wizard of auz
10th Jan 2009, 23:55
My pay this year is $136 base next year estimate round $145 remember thats base rate. I havent done the Scare North thing and added the super and allowances to make it sound like you can feed the dog.

Strewth........thats gotta be a biiiig dog. :eek:

Chadzat
11th Jan 2009, 00:20
A bit off topic to a T's and C's discussion. But if an applicant had ATPL and well over 500 multi command but not the 2000hrs TT required for a DEC, where are they likely to be 'put' if hired? Are you more likely to go straight onto the Braz FO or is it written into the agreement that all new hires go onto the Metro regardless?

300Series
11th Jan 2009, 00:24
Chadzat i know of a few that have gone DE onto the Bras as an FO and skipped the metro. I have heard on the grapevine that Air North are not hiring anyone without an ATPL due to an oversupply of FO's without the night hours to get their ATPL to be eligible for a command upgrade.

300

Chadzat
11th Jan 2009, 01:37
Interesting......and I assume that like most regionals at the moment there is a shortage of captains? Is this going to be exacerbated by the new jungle jet this year?

One more question while I'm at it. Do the braz's do much ad-hoc charter work? I know they do scheduled charter services to the Granites etc....

Dog One
11th Jan 2009, 03:28
The comment I made reference 5 Captains moving across to the E Jet, meant that there would be vacancies to fill acoss the turbine fleet. These Captains must be happy enough with the T & C's to consider such a move. Now if they have to wait a loooong time of 5 years to move across to the left seat, they would still be ahead of some of their former colleagues who have been waiting up to 12 years with QF. There was very little movement at DJ until the E Jets came, and people waited far longer than 5 years.

Applicats to AN should bear in mind that even with a DE command, years of service will determine your move to the jet, although, with a proposed third aircraft, who knows how they will crew it and the Brasilia's and the Metro's. Their biggest problem will be how effectively they can recruit.

For A_E's benefit, here is a copy of AN's web page, which has some information on it, and if he wants to find out how much he will be paid, the EBA is available on the NT Government web site

From Airnorth's Web Site

Employment Opportunities
Applications are always welcome for:

Pilots with at least 1000 hours total time and 500 hours Multi-Engine Command. Endorsement on SA227, EMB120 or ERJ170 or Turbine Experience is highly desirable.

Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers with:
Airframe Groups 1, 5, 6 & 10
Engine Groups TPE331, PW100 or CF34
Electrical, Instrument & Groups

Current Vacancies
DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAINS
Due to our continued growth and the expected delivery of our 2nd and 3rd E170 Jets in 2009, Airnorth have advancement opportunities like never before. We currently seek Direct Entry Captains for our Brasilia and Metro23 aircraft. After meeting current commitments to our existing aircrew, we expect suitably qualified applicants to be capable of flying our jets within 2 years.

Applicants must have a minimum of:

2000 hours Total Time
500 hours Multi Engine Command
100 hours Turbine
ATPL and MECIR
Endorsement on Type is highly desirable.
"A tropical lifestyle in a world class career"

If you are interested in joining Northern Australia's premier regional airline please forward your resume to:
[email protected]
Or fax to (08) 8920 4095

Benefits
- Competitive salaries - based on regular salary benchmarking with guaranteed CPI Increases each year.
- Training & Development - opportunities for development across the organisation
- Travel - discounted travel benefits for you, family & friends (subject to policy)
- Employee Assistance Program - 24hr support for team members and their families
- Gala events - free or subsidized for Airnorth staff
- Salary packaging options - such as Laptops, PDA's, Superannuation and Vehicles
- Corporate Medical Benefits Fund - through our preferred supplier

Department Profiles
Darwin Airport - Customer Service, Ticketing, Reservations, Ground Handling & Day of Operations
Engineering - Avionics, Mechanical, Purchasing, Inventory, Stores, Maintenance Planning
HAAMC - Maintenance Control and Data & Technical Records
Flight Operations - Flight Crew - Captains, First Officers, Training & Checking and Cabin Attendants
Commercial - Scheduling, Pricing & Yield, Operations, Sales & Marketing, Systems Development
Compliance - Quality Assurance, Safety, Security & Documentation Control
Finance - Accounts Payable & Receivable, Payroll, Accounting and Revenue
Human Resources - Recruitment, Industrial Relations, Conditions of Service and Training & Development

Work Experience
Airnorth supports several Secondary Schools in Darwin and surrounds and welcomes the opportunity to assist students interested in a career in Aviation.
Applications for Work Experience should be provided in writing at least 3-4 weeks in advance and include the students details, the Schools agreement form and details of insurance coverage.

Click here to request more information.

Non-Residents
Overseas applicants with extraordinary or specialized skills may be considered for employment, however, Airnorth has a policy to recruit primarily within Australia, contributing to our local economy and providing employment opportunities to Australian Residents.
Before being considered applicants must be able to demonstrate that they are aware of the process involved in obtaining a 457 Visa and for gaining recognition of their overseas Qualification through the appropriate regulatory body.

Recruitment Process
Recruitment processes will vary depending on the type of job and the location of the applicant. As a guide recruitment will include:
- Short listing applicants against the position criteria
- Interviews either face-to-face or by phone
- Group sessions will always be conducted for Cabin Attendant recruitment
- Reference checks of at least 2 referees
- Validation of qualifications
- Skills testing
- Character Health Checks
All applicants in a recruitment campaign will be advised of the outcome of their application.

justin daway
26th Feb 2009, 01:01
guys/girls

I'm looking for any real info on pay for metro / bras captains

I have just applied here but before going ahead with the interview want to know the pay scale. I've heard $40K and if this is correct, simply cant afford to work for them.....

Just any REAL info would be nice :ok:


Justin

justin daway
27th Feb 2009, 07:17
Back to the top....

Come on guys, am close to the mark with $40k???

Anyone willing to post the actual figure?

Stationair8
27th Feb 2009, 13:58
Mate, I think good old Air North pay a bit better than that.

A ball park figure for a Captain would be around the $80k mark.

ITCZ
1st Mar 2009, 04:44
and if he wants to find out how much he will be paid, the EBA is available on the NT Government web site
No, it is not.

Jesus wept.
You compare career progression in airnorth with QF...
You post large slabs from a company website that all these poor b@stards have told you they read and complained that it does not give them the info they want...
And direct them to a state/territory government website for information on a federal agreement...... that appears to not exist!

Mate, you are MANAGEMENT material!:D:D

The 'airnorth wannabes' want to know how much they will be paid.

Do them a favour.

You said you know the link to the agreement, and that you know the payrates.

Post them.

Dog One
1st Mar 2009, 05:21
Have a bad night ITCHY, piles burning are they.

tio540
1st Mar 2009, 05:40
As for more expansion, I suspect Bridge is desperately looking for a way out of the following jets or going to start a child care centre in them. With SkyAir operating darwin Dilli and beyond, McCarthr river all but sunk for the moment, Bali gone to Jetstar what are they going to do with 3 jets except bleed $$$$. ScareNorth have never NEVER been able to compete against other company's on the same routes. I don't believe anything has changed.This is not an inovative company. Guess why Patick/Toll have a dash 8 in Darwin, why did the Timor govt go with Skyair. Simply because AirNorth are unable to live up to their talk. Rubbish service and unreliable.

Renurp I think your info is out of date.

Skyair - no appearance for their first scheduled flight, or any other.

Mac River - has been approved in principle

Jetstar - announce big Darwin expansion then cut back

Patrick/Toll - Mmmmmmmm

Virgin - wound back

AirNorth is a quiet achiever, and there is no need for you to bag the smaller operator. Congrats on your $145 per year, do any of us really care?

John Citizen
1st Mar 2009, 05:49
AirNorth is a quiet achiever

What have they achieved with Regionalink ? :ooh:

How well did they achieve in South Australia ? :ooh:

tio540
1st Mar 2009, 08:15
What have they achieved with Regionalink ?

The other partners did/are falling over.

How well did they achieve in South Australia?

They lost money and kept on going.

Ansett cost them $1.6 mil, and they traded through. You guys should give them the credit they are due. No, I have never worked for A.N.

John Citizen
1st Mar 2009, 08:34
The other partners did/are falling over.

What other partners ? Please name some.

They lost money and kept on going

Yes, kept on going losing money and couldn't turn it around. They eventually pulled out. Is that an achievement to be proud of ?

Maybe this is the real meaning of "quiet achiever" is. lets keep quiet about what we didn't achieve.

However I do have to give them credit for operating a jet !!! One of their achievements amongst other failures.

Goat Whisperer
1st Mar 2009, 09:12
I think the "other partners" referred to are/were Emu Air and Airlines of South Australia.

tio540
1st Mar 2009, 10:07
C'mon John, there isn't a company anywhere that hasn't had some losses, somewhere. Knowing some of the staff at S.A. at the time it's a wonder they did as well as they did.:)

Geez if Q looses money on Penang to Sh$%tsville will you bag the entire operation?

Dog One
14th Apr 2009, 10:34
From Australian Aviation, a update for all you keen Ppruners to bag!


* AIRNORTH TAKES SECOND E-JET, TWO MORE TO COME? Airnorth took delivery of its second Embraer E-170 on April 8 at Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil, and has announced that it intends to further expand its fleet.
The 76 seat E-170AR is on lease from Miami based lessor Jetscape Inc, and will allow the airline to fly from Darwin to every Australian capital city with a full load. Airnorth has previously said that it intends to use the aircraft on international charter services to and from Darwin into Asia, with the aircraft capable of nonstop flights to destinations including Manila and Kuala Lumpur.
The airline's CEO Michael Bridge noted that since it introduced its first E-170 in August 2007 that it has gained a strong acceptance among its customers, particularly among its contract charter customers. As a result, the airline's board has made it its intention to operate four E-170s by mid-2010, according to a press release from Embraer.
Airnorth also has a fleet of EMB-120 and Fairchild Metroliner turboprops, and serves a mix of RPT services across the Northern Territory as well as long term contract charters supporting the mining and petroleum industries. The airline is also currently the only carrier offering flights between Australia and Dili in East Timor.

Pinky the pilot
15th Apr 2009, 11:45
Knowing some of the staff at S.A. at the time it's a wonder they did as well as they did.

Care to elaborate on that statement tio540? Via pm if you wish.

Stationair8
19th Apr 2009, 06:40
South Australia always been a hard place to make money. The only operater that did okay was Don Kendall, but even he would have wondered what he got himself into at Ansett's bequest.

Lincoln Airlines, Pagas, Lloyds, O'Connors, Commodore, Williams, Opal, Silver City Airlines are just a few from the last 20 years.