Cabair/Oxford ATPL

[G BRNK]

I know a lot of you probably here this all the time but which would you recommend for the ATPL integrated route. Cabair has a better fleet but Oxford has the 'glamour' name. The Diamond Twin Stars do look quite tempting!

P.S. Don't tell me to go for modular =) lol

[G CEXO]

In this current climate, your considering integrated?...your definately off your head :}

Good luck in what ever you decide :ok:

G-XO

[kwokwinguk]

Hi G-BRNK,

Both Schools are the same except the cost, Cabair is about £3,000 cheeper. The most important thing is that they both offer the same licence, JAA ATPL (Frozen).

I already got an offer from Cabair starting next year in January, the Integrated course. But, will probably start in March just to see how the market is going. In my opinion, if you are very determined to take the course then go Cabair. £3,000 is a lot of money, lots of beer to drink or you can invest in shares and hopefully you make a fortune out it.

David:ok:

[Daniel777]

Hey there,

I am also considering applying to these schools but I would go modular since I already have a PPL and 70 hours.

I am planning to apply to airlines in Germany, Austria ad the Middle East later on...

Question:
Does it worth to do the modular route with Oxford or Cabair beacause of their name or should I stick with some smaller, cheaper organisation?

Thanks alot:ok:

[G BRNK]

Well I'm considering both integrated and modular. What are the actual differences between them apart from the huge price difference? I know you get the same ratings at the end but why the price difference lol (apologies for the loling - I am a teen afterall ;) )

[Blighty Pilot]

G CEXO - "in this climate you have got to be mad". Would you care to explain???

Alright the economy is a little shakey at the moment however, the way I see it is this..... We (airlines) will always need pilots and once the dust settles (my guess 18 months - 2 years) the industry will be on the up, and bearing in mind people are retiering every day, and the pilot recruitment teams will yet again be scrambling around for pilots. Should you start your training now this will leave you in a good position because when you come to graduate in 18 months time and hopefully get work shortly afterwards you will make your way quite nicely up any senioriy list before the next down turn in the industry.
Typically the aviation industry runs in 7 year cycles. 1995 (Gulf War), 2001/2 (Following Sept 11) and now 2008 (Credit crunch). If I was a betting man I think 2015/16 will feature for one reason or another and that is why I suggest you crack on with your training if you have decided it is the career path you want to go down (especially if your passionate about it), graduate and then once gaining employment enjoy the security of being well up the seniority list :ok:


And another thing........ It aint gonna get any cheaper!!!!

[Blighty Pilot]

Oh and to answer the original posters question - I'd choose Oxford every time! I went to Oxford 8 years ago now and if I were to start all over again or send my children to any FTO it would be to Oxford :ok:

[Celtic Pilot]

I totally agree with you 'Blightly', however you were saying it takes a downturn every seven years, but September the 11th would be considered a downturn which was inflicted and didnt just happen... The economy fell apart nearly overnight.... This time however it has just been a gradual build up and now the effects are being felt.....

Im startring integrated at the end of this month with cabair... call me mad if you like.... but I see things my own way!!!!! I agree with your predictions Blightly... Once you hit the buttom of the barrel things can only go up!!!!

[1800ed]

My feelings about Oxford are; it seems very 'commercial'. They seemed to spend a lot of money on paying marketing type people to tell them what to say, what to write in their brochures and how to hard sell. This put me off slightly as I prefer a much more honest approach. I know of someone who trained with them, and the one story that sticks out is he had two engine failures in one day on the same aircraft out in Phoenix, which doesn't sound right.

I preferred Cabair because they didn't hard sell, in fact, one of the guys said to me that some people are right for them and some aren't. The Diamonds looked like good fun too! However, the people who have been through Cabair have told me to avoid them 'because once they have your money e.t.c...', but I couldn't seem to see where this reputation they have came from when visiting. But I guess they are very careful about what they say to visitors...

[Andy120]

I agree 1800ed Oxford has become elitist with a few pre-madonna students.

[bajadj]

you can dress it up anyway you like, the fact is oxford has some nice looking sims but a poor fleet in kidlington and an appalling fleet in goodyear. MCC at oxford possibly but the actual flying??? no thanks. Netjets appear to agree with me.

[Tootles the Taxi]

Blighty Pilot

I'd choose Oxford every time! I went to Oxford 8 years ago now and if I were to start all over again or send my children to any FTO it would be to Oxford http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

When you went there 8 years ago, you didn't happen to stay by chance? Your preceding post sounds like it could have come straight from the marketing dept.

1800ed

I know of someone who trained with them, and the one story that sticks out is he had two engine failures in one day on the same aircraft out in Phoenix, which doesn't sound right.

Yeah, it's part of the syllabus! Anyway, sounds like extremely good training to me; no covering the throttle quadrant whilst you simulate a failed donk - far more realistic :}
Cabair have traditionally had a reputation for what you describe - but then the sales people don't tend to talk about that.

badadj

oxford has some nice looking sims but a poor fleet in kidlington and an appalling fleet in goodyear....Netjets appear to agree with me.

Can you substantiate any of that? Are you describing the maintenance/servicability of the fleets or the condition of the aircraft themselves & if the latter, in comparison to what?
Also, are you a Netjets cadet? One should be careful writing negatively on public forums if you are - look what happened to the last one :ok:

[bajadj]

I am not a netjets cadet!! I believe netjets had a bit of a moan about the standard of the a/c in goodyear. I also believe (probably unconnected) that Netjets have pulled there scheme from oaa for the time being.

Speaking to some students currently in goodyear there is a problem with U/S a/c in goodyear right now (especially the senecas).

The fleet at oxford is old and knackered compared to other a/c available at other schools for less money, which is why i chose not to fly at oxford after my groundschool there.

I'm not meaning to offend, just passing opinion.

[Blighty Pilot]

Tootles,

hahahahaha!

All I can say is, Urgh NO!!!

Obviously following 9/11 there was a period of time that I couldn't get any driving work so I found work elsewhere in the industry but rest assured that wasn't at Oxford!!
I made some good friends at Oxford and liked te atmosphere and friendlyness there. That is why today I very occasionally go back and talk to current students about my aviation experiences and what happens on a day to day basis at work. It is part of the Oxford programme that gives current students the opportunity to meet current pilots and hear it from the horses mouth about what it is like following their training.

Happy Landings
BP
(Big Aeroplane Driver NOT Marketing Consultant)

[wheelie my boeing]

Agree with Blighty....
Finished Oxford not TOO long ago and would recommend them highly.

[hollingworthp]

There certainly was (sounds like still is) a pretty major serviceability issue with the US Fleet for OAA but thus far, the UK based fleet has been much more reliable.

[Vlad The Inhaler]

Regarding the modular/integrated bit, I suspect the "are you mad?" question might arise because at the moment, funding is the big problem here. If you've got the dosh, then go for it, but if you're planning on raising the dosh via a bank loan, or remortgaging a house, then you might want to check whether those options are still open to you, right here, right now. If not, then integrated is a lot cheaper, therefore a lot easier to fund, and you can hold down a job between modules which can help.

[Celtic Pilot]

Vlad the Inhaler -- """If not, then integrated is a lot cheaper, therefore a lot easier to fund, and you can hold down a job between modules which can help.""""

Think you meant modular is alot cheaper!!!!!!

Was at HSBC recently and they said that they were processing the loans offered but only for now...!! Wasnt to sure what way she meant it but sounded like it could soon come to a halt!!!!

[1800ed]

extremely good training to meI have heard of some ATPL students having the keys for the mags pulled on them during PFL's. But I have cocked them up on a few occasions (during my PPL) and think it's a bit sketchy to do that to someone http://www.c20xe.co.uk/board/images/smile/lol.gif

[fibod]

There are other schools that you should consider.

CTC have a good course; it doesn't have to be linked to their cadet programme: can just be a self-funded course.

Bristol Aviation is worth a look; probably the best IR centre in the UK and now running full-time ab-initio courses that are very competitive.

Flight Training Europe in Spain is popular with Brits, although its Euros pricing looks expensive now.

As to whether you should start training now; I've seen quite a few recessions, and this question always arises. Despite what people say, each recession has been significantly different. The only common element is that if you happen to be graduating in the middle of the recession when there are no jobs, it is rather challenging. Looking back at them, they are always small blips in the onward and upward growth in aviation. So starting training in a recession is not necessarily a bad thing, but graduating in a recession ain't great.

To get into this industry you need a mix of emotion and logic. Do what you heart says, but not if your head strongly disagrees.

Good luck :ok:

[ChrisLKKB]

and PAT at EGHH have one of the best first time pass records, you wont hear many if any complaints about them on here either (appart from maybe the aroma from Bruno and finding he's nicked your sarnies) unlike the larger rather elitist schools who it would appear need to put more effort into the quality of their fleet and training and less into their marketing.

[Tootles the Taxi]

I have heard of some ATPL students having the keys for the mags pulled on them during PFL's. But I have cocked them up on a few occasions (during my PPL) and think it's a bit sketchy to do that to someone http://www.c20xe.co.uk/board/images/smile/lol.gif

:eek: I would be surprised if that was the case at any of the integrated FTO's - dangerous instructional practice. The twins have mag switches in any event - not operated with a key, & PFL's are not practice during MECPL training (unless you identify the failed engine incorrectly :} ).

My previous comment regarding 'good training' was intended as a little subtle humour - clearly I need more practice.