Help me with some nuances of the language

[Mr C Hinecap]

If this appeared on some official paper near you, how would you interpret it?

"Flying clothing should be worn only when personnel are involved in, or travelling directly to/from, flying-related activities."

As the mighty winged master race keep telling us, everything we do is flying-related, so should I get a flying suit? :bored:

[c130jbloke]

Best you all get down to clothing stores pronto !!!!

:eek::eek:

[3 bladed beast]

Yes, agreed to clothing stores. Although the flying suit does look (even more) silly without the badges, crest etc etc.

Maybe we could award pretend wings, Squadron badges and crests to all involved - then we can all be part of the team.

Morale will be sky high.......:ok:

[Mr C Hinecap]

Those of us not blessed to be sky gods just have to get EAW badges so we can belong. Then again - with us going back into blues, 'we don' need no steenkeen badges'

[Gnd]

As a regression back to the bad old days when we were ashamed of the job we do and the effort it takes to keep doing it. I for one am not missing the daily change parades because some Dinosaur couldn't be 'equal'. The world is PC enough as it is without petty idiots trying to throw their weight around - through jealousy.

Other than that, I don't really have an opinion!:\

[airborne_artist]

What is it with the light blue and growbags? I thought it odd enough when I saw aircrew wearing them all day without stepping near an aircraft/sim, but when people who never left the ground except to get on the bus wore one all the time I started to wonder.

In the dark blue we went to work in the rig of the day, put on a growbag before flight, flew, and then changed if we were not flying again that day.

Is it some sort of comfort blanket for the RAF? :confused:

[BEagle]

Flying clothing should be worn only
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'Should' is merely a recommendation in current parlance. If they don't want to allow people to wear No 14 Dress (or whatever it's called nowadays), then the wording would be 'shall be worn only'....

As for the boat people, perhaps the only reason they like to change so many times per day is in order to admire each other in the showers....:ooh:

[BluntM8]

To solve this debate, we require all participants to make use of the universal-Proone-argument-resolution-tool.

Simply take a piece of chalk, a wall, and a tape measure. Stand facing wall and whatever distance makes you comfortable, and commence pissing. Measure height achieved. Highest splash mark possesses the correct opinion on subject.

Simple, really...

Blunty

[Brain Potter]

The USAF aircrew community wear flying suits as working dress just about all the time. It appears to be accepted practice to also do so even whilst on ground tours.

Maybe it's just naval types that prefer getting undressed in front of each other several times a day.

[dallas]

My willy is big enough without the need to prance around in a flying suit, but I do think aircrew and, dare I say it, the Americans, benefit from displaying name badges on their uniform. It enables you to know who you're dealing with, which in turn can only deter jobsworths and encourage professionalism, and it would do a damn sight more for unit cohesion than the ill-conceived EAW badges, that have the ball ache of a trip to stores, without the benefits of actually belonging to anything more than a bunch of transient unfortunates on OOA det.

[Pontius Navigator]

When I first visited Geilenkirchen in its current guise I thought it strange that they had aircrew manning the front gate. Not wholly strange as some RAF units had aircrew on the gates as well. Anyway it seemed everyone wore flying suits.

Given the number of nations involved it would have looked like fancy dress if they all wore national uniforms. Also there may have been issues with issues of different kit requiring a huge multi-national clothing stores :}

[rej]

If I can rememeber from my time in the Great White North, I am sure that Aerospace Controllers in the Canadian Forces were permitted to wear flying suits at work.

I suppose that satisfied one of my Cannuck ex-students who was chopped aircrew. When asked how far through training he gone, he replied that he was suspended after his last flight .................. no $hit:ugh:

[davejb]

As aircrew (past tense) I recall being quite annoyed on a nice det once to see all the fighter crews on the sqn I was with wearing flying suits in the bar 6 hours after returning to the hotel. I was in blues, unlike some I used to wear blues when I did my ops supporty type stuff. So I can understand how the propensity to wearing growbags can offend.

It's a membership thing, it feeds an undernourished ego - sometimes.

On the other hand, after flying and before going home etc it can be nice to drop into places like the pigs' bar and have a good few pints. It can be a royal pain to have some weenie harangue you about flying suits in the mess etc at that time, one tends to think 'if it wasn't for the aircrew everyone else would still be in the Army.'

Aircrew - don't deliberately put a growbag on to go to the bar (especially a hotel bar on detachment) - growbags aren't a pull factor. After 4 hours in the bar it's time to go home, if only to change and get a taxi back. (Don't forget the box of Milk Tray, which automatically cancels any marital issues, such as the in-law anniversary you were meant to be going to).

Groundcrew - Don't be envious, why not invent a special working uniform of your own? After 90 years this 'he's wearing flying kit sir' complaint wears a bit thin.

Everyone - get name badges printed upside down, so you can read them yourself by glancing down - after all, you're the only b***er who wants to read it anyway!

Dave

(Conflict resolution counsellor 1st class and Ettiquette consultant,Hons).

[kiwi chick]

Wow.

I'm so simple in that I love wearing my zoomers because it means I don't have to iron my blues.

:ok:

[FFP]

The USAF aircrew community wear flying suits as working dress just about all the time. It appears to be accepted practice to also do so even whilst on ground tours.

Except on a Monday. I kid you not......

[Al R]

That.. 'EAW' badge I've read about? Forgive me (sure it'll have been mentioned, just a gunner, still haven't had my first coffee etc) but is there an onomatopoeia thing going on here to suggest the wearer is a donkey?

Lots of station personnel wear CS95 and they don't leave the camp gates, and that never bothered me. I suppose the only time the growbag issue ever concerned me was when one of the swine turned up in a growbag prior to receiving a damned good gas.. cough .. to test of the integrity of his respirator. Then, there was an operational implication.

I'm not saying bollocks to trendy civvy like inclusivity and fairness for all (actually, I am) - but lets just sweat the important stuff. When all's said and done, its the military - not a cub scout pack and I know its probably out of thinking with today's Realm Defence Agency ethos, but you do what you're told. On the plus side, if all we have to worry about is what someone else wears, then things can't be that bad. :ok:

Now then. That fitness test..

[Mr C Hinecap]

Before we go any further down the growbag plughole, can the rest of you (who can) please read the Internal Briefing Note 27/08 and catch up please? We're back in blues from today, other than a couple of exceptions (one of which I started with). :8

[Al R]

Thats not a bad idea - there's nothing wrong with the RAF being proud of being blue, after all, isn't it primarily a civvy type office based job in the UK anyway?

The green thing all the time was getting a bit daft and the fashionable equality ethos line was blurring the line between all those (worthy and essential, lets not forget) support elements and well.. those who are slightly more proactive (aircrew/Regt etc).

CS95 should be set aside for regular use for those who actually have a service need to wear it.

http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

[BEagle]

Quite so, Al R.

I had the misfortune to experience one Stn Cdr who ordained that we would have 'training days', when everyone must wear Clockwork Squaddie 95. Now, as we were on a flying station, hardly anyone except the Regt and TCW held CS95 - the only time we wore old-style DPM was for annual GDT/ODT and the rest of the time it was either blues or flying kit. Stores didn't have enough kit for everyone; so most people went to stores and had to come back with an 'on demand' voucher in case the Mekon should demand to know why they had disobeyed him.. Meanwhile, the people who really needed kit for Fire Service support during the strike couldn't get it because it was languishing in the possession of the few waiting for another of the Mekon's litle war days.
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The idiot also demanded that everyone not on the flying programme should also wear blue. Fair enough if there was somewhere to store it and change, but due to an earlier crass management decision, everyone was squeezed into the same building and there simply weren't any locker rooms. And yet another previous Stn Cdr had ordained that even the shineys who habitually flew in blues now had to wear flying suits, so that made things even worse for aircrew clothing storage.

One fine day, a chap in his blunty blues was told that he was needed for a trip. "Ok sir, when?" "Briefing in about 10 minutes!" "Well, I'll be back as soon as I can - I have to cycle home, collect my flying kit, drive back, change, put my blues back in the car......"

The trip was scrubbed, the Sqn Cdr (who was less worried about his career than the wretched Mekon) was v. pi$$ed off. Change was demanded, so aircrew went back to the sensible in-house policy of only wearing blues when they weren't available to fly - and CS95 gathered dust again....

Has the RAF really now gone back to that daft "Mustn't wear flying suits except when due to fly" ruling? No doubt some Air Wheel at the Ministry of Madness will invent another new pullover and way of wearing the RAF stable belt?

[Airborne Aircrew]

Let's look at this logically.

Off base, (ie: in the trees and weeds), variations of green/black/brown are de riguer for the sensibly dressed fighting man. However, in a more concrete based environment, (ie: within the confines of the station), variations of grey/blue/black are his dress of choice.

So, it's really rather simple. You are better off wearing blues if your rear never leaves the station thus all the tech types, supply and admin types, scuffers etc. should wear blue at all times while the more daring, better looking aircrew and Regiment types that venture past the wire for something other than a pie and a pint should wear green stuff at all times because they may be expected to leave the station on "business" at any time, (Oh, and blues look so wimpy...)

Ladies, if you have this much time to argue about your bloody wardrobe you could pobably be out trying to pass that fitness test you all complain is such an imposition on your time!!!!! :=

[cornish-stormrider]

Oh how the other forces must be laughing at you lot of pillocks. Here is an engineer's decision. Wear what you want, have a plausible excuse prepared in advance and when the useless REMF who is on another "assessment approaching, increase visibility by changing something" project comes and moans he will be shot down. At my last posting swo had a moan about how we carried rucsacs across from domestic site to technical FFS. Oh how I laughed when he bawled me out and I refused - I cited a personal order from the colonel at Headley Court. Colonel trumps swo, swo goes beet red and yells at someone else. Bimble away happy.

There also was the miserable git at ISL insisting that only uniform to be worn on bicycles on station while going to - from work.............. it lasted until I complained to the plod I nearly flattened two lineys cycling by the end of the runway with no lights or high dayglo clothing............. Miserable git lost too.

Wear whatever you feel best able to achieve your primary aims for the day. In the case of some on here that will be best mess dress then :E

Cocktail swilling wuperts that they are, and if you are offended by being called a wupert then I hate to say it but that is probably what you be.

[Blacksheep]

Just an idea from an old & very retired tech sergeant, but why not have everybody wearing a grow bag all the time?

For those who don't fly, it wouldn't be a "Flying Suit" so it would need a different name, lets say "Denims" for instance.

To differentiate aircrew from blunties all that's needed is for the FJ guys to wear their G-suits and helmets. Bingo! Problem solved.


I rather liked the brown dustcoat and fly-away beret that all we self respecting techies wore in the "good old days".

[Wader2]

- growbags aren't a pull factor.

Oh they are, oh they are. Now that the statute of limitations has passed:

We were invited to a 'bottle party' in a block on the Goose. Our leader, who retired as an Air Cdre (great bloke) took a Victor and a Vulcan crew to the party with just one bottle - 80 oz of baccardi.

Now we, as good Bomber Command aircrew were indeed in civvies but the girls were in growbags. Just growbags. The carpet had been taken up in the BOQ and the floor was swimming in booze and broken glass. This had the effect of keeping all the girls off the floor and dependent on us serving them.

I still have some memories of that night.:}

[Wader2]

Having now read the IBN it seems reasonably clear that aircrew travelling home-to-duty will wear blues. Once on the sqn, or leaving the gym after their PT session :} and en route to flying related activities they can wear flying suits.

The issue will then arise with the 'no flying suits in the mess' and the 'only blues in SHQ' brigade. when we know how impracticable that can be.

Then the new blue RAF Logoed coveralls will be great to see especially where I work (not).

[Wrathmonk]

Not being able to get sight of this latest instruction please tell me it includes those RAF personnel in Main Building, Old War Office, Abbeywood etc (although they may already wear blues in the latter location - I try to avoid the place at all costs!). And if the real reason is to save wear and tear on CS95 etc has the Army done the same? Red or Purple strides and jumpers knitted by your Grandmother anyone?

On a side note it wasn't that long ago that the likes of 10 Sqn and 32 Sqn / TQF used to wear blues to fly in when on a trooping sortie (obviously to safe places like the Bahamas, USA, Singapore etc etc and not compatible with todays expeditionary force). Assume it had something to do with using civil airports (a bit like being a pax from Honington to Goose Bay and having to travel in civvies just in case we diverted ...). Seem to remember there was some opposition to going to growbags from some quarters at Brize and Northolt - also heard an urban myth that you had to be a sqn ldr to be a capt on 10 Sqn. How times change! Perhaps BEags can offer a view?

I remember well having to go to work (1987-ish) in blues and change into growbag if on the programme. Only time I ever really used the huge flying clothing lockers they gave us!

[Zoom]

Then the new blue RAF Logoed coveralls....

Don't know if the above preempts my suggestion, but why doesn't the RAF go back to blue flying suits? Colour problem solved. (Obviously, the operational implications of green versus blue for the aircrew are secondary to the PC need to keep everyone else happy.)

Or dayglo orange? That looks pretty cool behind a chilled beer.

[BEagle]

....it seems reasonably clear that aircrew travelling home-to-duty will wear blues. Once on the sqn, or leaving the gym after their PT session and en route to flying related activities they can wear flying suits.

What utter cock! Many non-FJ aircrew don't go the 'the sqn' to fly - they report to Stn Ops. Which at most bases doesn't have any room for flying clothing lockers.

Another morale-raising edict, it would seem. Just imagine arriving home after a long detachment to the Great ****pit, only to be told you have to chnage into blunty blue before going home...

Still, I suspect that the main reason behind this is to get people to talk about something else rather than the RAF's weak leadership, sorry, 'management' and the crass inability of the UKADGE to see Blackjack bombers.......

[Wader2]

tell me it includes those RAF personnel in Main Building, Old War Office,

And if the real reason is to save wear and tear on CS95 etc has the Army done the same? Red or Purple strides and jumpers knitted by your Grandmother anyone?

. There will be no change immediately for personnel serving in the MOD in London. However, visitors to MOD may wear uniform as they see fit.
an urban myth that you had to be a sqn ldr to be a capt on 10 Sqn. How times change! Perhaps BEags can offer a view?

No myth. We had the VC10 Sqn Ldr. usually most of them were made up at some point but a few, whose face didn't fit, lost their rank when posted. You could tell an ex-VC10 Sqn Ldr by the wide gap between rank bands
.

BTW, Gym Queens and medical staff will also wear blue when not at their place of duty.

But the best bit is:

Clothing policy staff will strive to ensure that the grade of uniforms is the best possible that can be provided within current financial constraints;

[sisemen]

Where's the problem with the "blue collar staff" wearing their working overalls?

Up until 1972 everyone wore aircrew uniform. Except in those days they called it battledress.

[Sideshow Bob]

To receive flying pay you have to be on flying related duties, therefore anyone who receives flying pay must be on flying related activities and can wear a flying suit!! :ok: I think I'll stick to blues during my (flying related) ground tour though :)

[taxydual]

AIDU v AI R

This should be interesting!:):)

[The Helpful Stacker]

Clothing policy staff will strive to ensure that the grade of uniforms is the best possible that can be provided within current financial constraints;


Ah, that'll explain the Primrak cast-off quality medium weight trousers then.

As for aircrew wearing flying suits, I can't see a problem with it really. Saves on wear and tear on two sets of uniform and if they wear them on CSS it enables you to spot the folk who'll need refresher training on the range before they've even shot a round.;)

On the question of blues or CS95 as day to day wear, if your job means you 'need' to wear CS95's because its a dirty job then actually you need to wear some coveralls, with blues underneath.

[sisemen]

The people who wear them really don't give a stuff one way or the other.

Ah. But they do! That's why the proverbial heels are dug in whenever it is suggested that blues might, just might, be an option :E

[4mastacker]

taxydual wrote:

AIDU v AI R

This should be interesting!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

Slightly off-topic. Having met one of those gentlemen in (sort of) greens, I know who I'd be putting my money on. ;)

Back on topic.. Does it really matter whether or not blues have to be worn when not on flying related duties (such as Orderly Officer)? What is more important is whether or not you guys still serving will part of the AAC in the not too distant future and have to wear their even lighter blue beret.

[Stitchbitch]

Ahhh bugger. Now I'll never get that new light blue shirt from stores, because all you aircrew will be nicking them...:}

'Stich, any chance of getting my 100Hrs Tiffie badge on my jumper?'
':mad: off Sir!'

:E

[Airborne Aircrew]

AIDU v AI R

This should be interesting!The very fact you find it interesting that AIDU and Al would go against one another speaks volumes. Unfortunately those volumes are not positive for AIDU since Al is "simply a Rock".

Of course, many rocks are smarter than AIDU... but then again most RAF Regiment Gunners are too... :}

[Al R]

4mastacker,

Hope all well. :ok:

Half Rock said; Of course, many rocks are smarter than AIDU... but then again most RAF Regiment Gunners are also smarter than Al...

:{