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BladePilot
29th Sep 2008, 09:16
Made in China!

Gulfnews: First Airbus plant opens in China (http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10248386.html)

Juud
29th Sep 2008, 09:43
What kind of thread starter is this then bladepilot? :yuk:

A link to a news story about aircraft for the benefit of those who somehow are perfectly able to PPRuNe but otherwise internet-illiterate?

An exclamation mark to emphasize what exactly?

Are you under the impression that PPRuNe is like your mobile phone and you pay per letter, so best to keep it short?

Or perhaps you are so pleased for the Chinese that you want everybody to know about this (not really any longer) news?

Could it possibly be that you are trying to imply something you lack the guts to say outright? So that you still get your message across but can always deny your original intent later?


Nah, of curse not... why would I be so suspicious eh? :rolleyes:

Howard Hughes
29th Sep 2008, 11:11
I suspect the quality will be the same, but the price will be about one tenth!;)

I have looked at importing goods from China and you can get anything made there. You can even specify quality, put your own name on it, whatever you want, I find it absolutely fascinating and the Chinese revolution is only getting going...:ok:

parabellum
29th Sep 2008, 11:37
My concern is that now that China can produce quality goods at a fraction of the price of the rest of the world, well, Western world, they only have to wait until the manufacturing industries in the Western world are brought to their knees before they exercise their stranglehold, ramp up the prices and China Rules OK!:eek:

Mr Grimsdale
29th Sep 2008, 13:15
My concern is that now that China can produce quality goods at a fraction of the price of the rest of the world, well, Western world, they only have to wait until the manufacturing industries in the Western world are brought to their knees before they exercise their stranglehold, ramp up the prices and China Rules OK!

Surely you're not suggesting that our glorious politicians have sold us down the river with all the "favoured nation" nonsense in the 90s?:}

asiaseen
29th Sep 2008, 14:01
My concern is that now that China can produce quality goods

But all too frequently doesn't. Even Mainland Chinese are embarrassed by the awful quality of much that is produced domestically.

Forkandles
29th Sep 2008, 14:16
Our company has moved all it's manufacturing to China (to a lesser degree India) and to say the quality is suspect would be somewhat of an understatement. Cheap as chips mind. :ok:

Thinking about it, quality wasn't actually that good when we made the stuff ourselves, but at least we had a UK workforce taking the piss :E...

dazdaz
29th Sep 2008, 14:26
Thing is, they manufacture such high quality baby milk and chocolate:eek:

ChristiaanJ
29th Sep 2008, 14:56
Maybe it's a warning to check the melamine of the seatback table before putting your drink on it?

CJ

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2008, 15:08
IIRC, Japan's early attempts at products for the Western market were of inferior quality but steadily improved, until, I believe, few would question Japanese product quality today.
Likewise, 'Made in Hong Kong' used to imply poor quality, but they too improved over the years.
It's just a matter of time before mainland China 'catches up' IMO.
Quality isn't an absolute it's a variable (though it can be controlled - as ani fule kno . . . ).

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2008, 15:15
So the Chinese are requiring Airbus products to be sourced locally (as did the USAF for their forthcoming tanker replacement).
The reticence of some of the American 'voices' to accept a 'foreign' product for a strategic military contract (with concerns over leakage of technology and future control of supply) might be bolstered by Airbus's venture into China.

Sallyann1234
29th Sep 2008, 16:03
A misleading title.

The referenced article says:
Airbus in June started shipping segments to be assembled to the Tianjin plant, its first assembly line outside Europe. The assembly line is a $600 million venture between Airbus and a Chinese consortium
...
Airbus is poised to sign a contract to sell 280 commercial aircraft to Chinese airlines, said John Leahy, chief commercial officer of the world's largest aircraft maker.

So in fact the Chinese are not "manufacturing" the aircraft at all. Airbus are setting up a plant to assemble segments of aircraft manufactured in Europe, for the local Chinese market. That seems a logical and sensible thing to do, particularly if the Chinese insist upon it as a precondition of their order.
You may be sure that Airbus will be applying the same QA, inspection and testing regime to any aircraft bearing their name wherever it is assembled, if they wish to stay in business.

I fail to see any reason to make such a fuss about this, unless Juud's suspicions are correct.

ChristiaanJ
29th Sep 2008, 16:37
So in fact the Chinese are not "manufacturing" the aircraft at all. Airbus are setting up a plant to assemble segments of aircraft manufactured in Europe, for the local Chinese market.I don't work for Airbus, so don't quote me.
But you're quite right, it's final assembly, not manufacture.
I would expect that, after all the segments are assembled, you end up with a "green" aircraft, and it would not be unreasonable to assume that everything else, such as cabin fittings, seats, toilets (?), IFE, galleys, etc. would be local manufacture. Plus of course the final paint job.

That seems a logical and sensible thing to do, particularly if the Chinese insist upon it as a precondition of their order.I agree, but it's not the only argument, I would say.
By doing the final "outfitting" locally, not only do they save money, but being able to sort out things like cabin configuration issues directly at Tianjin, rather than in Toulouse, must certainly help.

CJ

BlooMoo
29th Sep 2008, 20:57
An exclamation mark to emphasize what exactly?

Yeeeowch-screeeeeeeeech-miaoooooow! <---exclamation mark:eek:

ChristiaanJ
29th Sep 2008, 21:38
Huh?
Question mark to express total incomprehension re previous post.

Rollingthunder
29th Sep 2008, 21:39
Not totally final assembly. One source I read indicated they were manufacturing the wings at least.

ChristiaanJ
29th Sep 2008, 21:44
Rollingthunder,
Can you quote a source for that? Wings ain't easy... I wouldn't have thought they quite had reached that stage yet.

No reflection on the Chinese whatsoever, but it's very much something you do in stages... and wings aren't easy to manufacture.

CJ

Rollingthunder
29th Sep 2008, 22:25
"The British plant at Broughton, Flintshire, will lose its status as the sole supplier of wings for all Airbus planes as Chinese manufacturers will provide the wings for the A320 single-aisle jets made at Tianjin. Airbus said Broughton would retain an innovation cutting-edge in wing design for new planes."

Guardian

Buster Hyman
30th Sep 2008, 02:46
He means rings, not wings.

As in "Ahh, Dr Lo will wing you rater!"

Bushfiva
30th Sep 2008, 03:06
An acquaintance of mine was in China arranging for a plastic doohickey to be manufactured. On a couple of the production lines, the signs were in Chinese and English for the benefit of English-speaking clients. On one of the lines, the signs were in Chinese, English and Japanese for the benefit of Japanese-speaking clients. The factory explained that their US customers would typically accept a 3% failure rate. The Japanese customers would accept 0.02%, charged back. That production line got the best staff and better maintenance. Products on that line cost about 8% more to make.

Loose rivets
30th Sep 2008, 03:23
So far, One is unimpressed with Chinese products. Mind you, when the Japanese things started to arrive in the UK, we all laughed. Ha Ha Ha we all went...until they became so good that we wouldn't consider any other makes.

My neighbor and old school chum, used to bring bearings round to my house in Essex. He owned a company that imported Chinese bearing and the like and spent some time telling me of his visit to the factories. He waxed lyrical about the accuracy of the self testing machines and One had to duck as he waived his arms in descriptive adulation.

When he had gone, I opened the box to some wheel bearings. They were for a fairly hot car and I felt uneasy about anything in the front hub that hadn't got T***** written on it. My heart sank.

Inside the cone of one of the outer bearings, was a ridge some five mm across. It was so proud that it waved a flag. No, really, it was so proud that One could hook One's fingernail on it. Totally F:mad:ing useless. Worse than that, totally dangerous.

When I sold my old Progress No. 1 drill-press, I regretted it the moment I said yes to the man on the phone. When I got to the US I purchased an Hitachi thinking that it would be halfway decent. I mean, Hitachi. Got to be, hasn't it?

As the Rivetess and I hauled it out of the box, my heart sank. Made in China. Never mind, twas only $200 for a floor standing machine with laser cross-hairs. Put up whit it? Aaaaaaaaaaaargh!, total waste of money. Do the chuck up until the key rod bends and the drill drops out! Did they have to take degree courses in crap engineering? How difficult it must be to make a chuck do that. If I'd stuck my cat on the shaft and put the drill up its....nose, it would have griped it better. Clatter clatter clatter goes the six zillion speed belt system. Six speeds would have done...all I wanted was a drill that would stay there and...Oh, an industry standard clamp to hold the chuck down.

Then there's grind-stones. I'm up to six...and not one of them has a stone that F:mad:ing round. Stone dressing tool? Not round here Mister. Held cast iron on one until my floor was covered in filings. Wheel still egg-shaped. Again I ask, how do they do it? What ever way it was it was opposite to the chisel / plane blade sharpener. Always wanted one of those. Chunter chunter dribble dribble, the slooooooooowwwww, wet stone rubbed against my priceless (Mother's old) Stanley blade. Within five minutes, most of the stone was in the sump in the form of mud. Gritty mud, I'll grant you, but useless mud nevertheless.

Goggles...so vitriolic that any sweat merges with the plastic and makes eye-dissolving acid. It makes using a Chinese chain-saw, you know, one of those with no auto-brake, very dangerous. At least you can't see your impending decapitation coming.

What else? Oh, yes. An air chuck. Put yer tire pumpy-uppie thing in one of those, and your likely to have it fired into your brain via a nostril. The valve then stays open and the airline jet-flails about slapping One on the side of the head-bone with the useless failed chuck.

I get the uneasy feeling that perhaps they are very clever. Put enough of this pseudo intelligent machinery into our nation, and at a stroke, they could maim half of us. The rest could find themselves on a flight in.....:suspect:

asiaseen
30th Sep 2008, 10:47
It's just a matter of time before mainland China 'catches up' IMO.

A valid point but I believe it will take a major change of mindset for it to happen. The basic problem is one of lack of empathy in the majority of Mainlanders. It manifests as a "Bugger you, I'm alright and if I can make a fast yuan by screwing you, I will" attitude. It has been engendered mostly by the CCP over the last 60 years but it has also been contributed to by Chinese culture pre the revolution.

BlooMoo
30th Sep 2008, 23:11
Question mark to express total incomprehension re previous post.
;)

The message you entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters - Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters - Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters - Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters - Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters !!!!!!!!!

Get it now CJ?

Jet_A_Knight
1st Oct 2008, 03:58
"Not the Craw, the CRAW"

Who remembers where that gem comes from????

Buster Hyman
1st Oct 2008, 04:04
Get Smart........

chuks
1st Oct 2008, 07:24
"Made in Japan" was just a joke. It was cheap, clumsy stuff, when we assumed that was the best they could do.

I remember reading a British review of a Honda 350 motorcycle from 1968 or so. The condescension fairly dripped off the page. (At that time Triumph led the U.S. market for import bikes and our biggest road race, the Daytona 500 had been won, yet again, by a Triumph rider. The Brits seemed to know what they were talking about, condescension or no.)

Then an odd thing happened. Those Japanese who didn't know how to innovate came out with the first mass-production 4-cylinder motorcycle with a front disc brake, the Honda CB-750. Nobody saw that one coming!

Then they made a racing version and won the Daytona 500 in a very dominant way over the now-outclassed Triumph twins. Honda sales really took off while Triumph was having serious issues with quality control and designs that just did not appeal to their (stupid and ignorant) American customers.

Fast-forward to today, when "Made in Japan" stands for top quality. Our last Sony television only had "Made in Scotland" on the carton. Want to bet that really meant "Screwed together in Scotland from bits that came from Japan" even though, yes, the man who invented television was a Scot? "Made in Japan" is reserved for the top-of-the-range models where this one was just an old design, fully-developed and very dependable, all that I needed.

Not to worry, "Made in China" stands for cheap and clumsy stuff, probably the best they can do...

Captain Stable
1st Oct 2008, 08:07
I recall a quote from a play, "Gasping" by Ben Elton:-"The Japanese wrecked the British car industry by deliberately and maliciously building better cars"

Parapunter
1st Oct 2008, 08:29
Anyone remember the Spielberg movie 1941, where the Japanese guys manage to nick an old valve radio & are having trouble getting it back in through the submarine hatch?

Captain says - We must think of a way of making these things smaller...

Loose rivets
1st Oct 2008, 08:45
Pah! The Brits would have just made the sub bigger.:}


When I was a T/V man...we used to sit in day-release school arguing about who's make was the best. There were 5, or was it seven manufacturers in the UK. Mullard and others made the tubes and valves.

The camera tubes were so costly that the BEEB would have to rent them. I don't know if they repaired them -- they certainly re-gunned the picture tubes. Wasted nowt in those days.