Merged: Caribou to retire in 09

[komac2]

CARIBOU TO BE RETIRED IN 2009: The RAAF will retire its fleet of 14 DHC-4 Caribou tactical transports next year following the discovery of fatigue cracking and corrosion on the fleet's airframes and various systems.
Although the RAAF planned to operate the fleet through until 2012, the decision to bring the retirement date forward comes after a Caribou suffered severe damage to its left wing and upper fuselage after was what was previously reported as a ‘hard landing' in Papua New Guinea last month. The cause of the damage has since been attributed to a structural failure caused by severe fatigue.
Although nothing has been officially announced, sources say the Caribou's transport capability in regions such as PNG and East Timor will be temporarily covered by Army King Airs until a permanent replacement can be provided through the delayed Air 8000 Phase 2 project.

AUSTRALIAN AVIATION EXPRESS (http://www.ausaviation.com.au/aaexpress.htm#b)

[Jabawocky]

No more Bou's and Pigs :{

What will they do for future airshows? Everything else is rather boring for a spectator!

J

[Buster Hyman]

The son of a guy I worked with at Ansett was in the RAAF & wanted to fly the jets, like most do I guess. A wise chap took him aside & asked him if he'd rather fly than sit behind a desk (I'm abbreviating his exact words). The answer was to fly & so he was pointed away from the jets & flew the Caribou's. Absolutely loved it from all reports & flew regularly...now instructing over in WA last I heard.

Another aircraft that has served us well.:ok:

[Gundog01]

following the discovery of fatigue cracking and corrosion on the fleet's airframes and various systems.


The cause of the damage has since been attributed to a structural failure caused by severe fatigue

Both not true

The retirement has nothing to do with the accident in PNG. No analysis of the failed parts has been carried out as they are still working through the logistics of removing the parts and getting them back to Aus. The reason given is a cost/benefit. It takes too many man hours to generate 0-3 frames a day.

I hear the plan is to transfer Army kingairs to 38Sqn and lease a half dozen additional kingairs to fill "the gap" till c-27/c295.

[Ratshit]

The Kingair! A logical replacement for the Bou!

It's obvious really, isn't it?

Rat:cool:

[Barry Bernoulli]

So what can do what the 'bou could do, STOL-wise? Do228, Twotter, M28, Arava, C212?

A hard act to follow!

[Captain Nomad]

Love to see a King Air going into Tapini, Oksapmin, Efogi, Kopiago, etc etc places where the old Caribou would go! :eek:

Then again, realistically, they shouldn't need to. After all PNG DF has a 212 and a flying turd (Irava)... That should cover all the bases no? :suspect: :D

The Air Force will indeed look VERY different with no Bou and no pig... :{

[Clear to drop]

Looks like the last we'll see of the combat expendable Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System (LAPES) capability also.

It'll be interesting to see if an airdrop capability is developed with the interim aircraft.

Bring back the Porter and Nomad.

[Jamair]

Capt Nomad - the King will certainly go IN to those places (Tapini, Oksapmin, Efogi, Kopiago), as long as you are happy to never fly it OUT again :E

Did plenty of time in the back of the Bou when I was in the Green Machine; was noisy, rough and slow - but was ALWAYS better than walking and carrying your house on your back :ok:

Plus sitting on the lowered ramp in flight with your feet dangling in space was always a crowd pleaser :p

[skid shoe]

I have a mate that did some of the delivery flights way back in 1960 something. Canada to Viet Nam straight over the top of the world. He tells me that anything is warmer than a Caribou when the compass shows south in every direction but those flights are still amongst his most treasured memories. Amazing flying and amazing scenery.

One of my own highlights was as freight on a bou flying over WW II crash sites in the Northern Teritory with a photographer from the National War Memorial. We would come come to a complete stop over the site to be photographed then the pilot would put the aircraft into a 90 degree vertical climb at about 20 feet per minute while the man took his pics. Ok maybe I exagerate a little but that's what it felt like hanging off the ramp. I would never have believed that low and slow could deliver that much of an adrenilan rush. Absolutely the best ride in over 30 years of aviation. They are an iconic aircraft and deserve every word of their legend status.

[Lookleft]

The Airforce have been doing studies of a Caribou replacement for years and came to the conclusion that there wasn't one. It's like the old adage that the only replacement for the DC3 was another DC3.

[Wombat35]

Actually guys I think there's a typo in the press release... they meant to say 3009.:ok::}

[Wanderin_dave]

Gonna miss the old girls. :{

Does anyone know where they'll be displying between now and their retirement? Must catch them before they go.

And PLEASE tell me HARS (or someone similar, but they seem the obvious choice) are going to get their hands on one to keep active. :ok:

[Captain Sand Dune]

Ah yes, another Caribou replacement/retirement rumour.:hmm: Heard 'em before. Believe it when I see it, not holding my breath in the meantime!

[john_tullamarine]

.. I rather suspect considerably better than a rumour .. and, no wonder .. consider the likely operating cost per flying hour .. ? not to mention serviceability/availability ? .. the former measure up in the stratosphere .. the latter well underground.

[Trojan1981]

I was considering going back, at least in a reserve capacity, to the ADF. I was inspired by a 'bou flying over the top of me at Richmond a few weeks ago and I realised how much I miss flying in those things. Oh well, I'll think I'll give it a miss now.

[john_tullamarine]

.. nice cover shot of the bird in the current issue of Feedback

[nomorecatering]

if the twotter has a market for new build airframes, surely there must be a nice for a new Carobu, maybe a turbine version.

[7mile]

Now there's an original idea, thanks nomorecatering

[David Eyre]

There has already been a turboprop conversion of the Caribou, done by Pen-Turbo Aviation, using PT6A-67T engines - here's their website with photos:
http://www.penturbo.com/html%5Ctcp.html

The other turboprop version of the Caribou was of course the DHC-5 Buffalo, which was originally marketed as the "Caribou II". Here's some info:
Buffalo (http://www.dhc4and5.org/Buffalo.html)

Viking Air, which is the company putting the Twotter back into production, also holds the licences for all other DHC aircraft (apart from the Dash 8). So theoretically, they could put either the Caribou or Buffalo back into production.

Here's an article on the difficulties in replacing the Caribou:
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Caribou-Pt.1.pdf

There is an article by John Armstrong proposing that the RAAF use the Pen-Turbo Conversion:
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Turbo-Caribou-July-05.pdf

Regards,
David

[beave]

I'm not a pilot, Im a maintainer, so apologies, but I thought people would like to read this. Sad day (for everyone involved with them past and present).............from the gov website

RETIREMENT OF THE DHC-4 CARIBOU

The Minister for Defence, the Hon. Joel Fitzgibbon MP, today announced the Government has accepted the reality that it will be necessary to bring forward the retirement of Australia’s remaining thirteen DHC-4 Caribou aircraft to December 2009.


“The Government has been left with little choice but to retire the Caribou and has reluctantly agreed to do so despite the fact that poor planning by the former Government has denied us the opportunity to produce a replacement aircraft before 2013,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

“After 45 years of tireless and distinguished service with the Royal Australian Air Force, the Caribou fleet is suffering badly from a range of ageing aircraft issues, and contains asbestos parts which I am determined to weed out of the Defence Force.”

The Royal Australian Air Force took delivery of its first Caribou in April 1964. The Caribou has a proud 45-year history of supporting Australian Defence Force operations, throughout the South West Pacific and in South East Asia, including active service in Vietnam, humanitarian relief in Kashmir, Cambodia and Papua New Guinea and also in support of peacekeeping operations in the Solomon Islands and East Timor.

Despite its outstanding track record, the Caribou is now well beyond its sustainable life of type. The Caribou fleet suffers from corrosion, fatigue and obsolescence issues that make them increasingly difficult and costly to maintain.

“Air Force is struggling to achieve four to five serviceable aircraft at any one time,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

“In fact, it is a tribute to the outstanding work of 38 Squadron aircrew, technicians and support personnel that the Caribou has been able to operate as long as it has.

“The reality is that a decision should have been taken a long time ago on acquiring a tactical airlift capability to replace the Caribou. The Government has been left with no other option than to rectify yet another shortcoming we have inherited in transition planning across our entire Air Force fleet,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

Project Air 8000 Phase 2 plans to deliver a Tactical Battlefield Airlift capability for the Royal Australian Air Force to replace the Caribou in 2013.

“Options for bringing forward the schedule on this project are being considered as part of the White Paper process,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

As an interim measure, a leased fleet of five additional Hawker Pacific B300 King Air aircraft will undertake light air transport tasks. These aircraft will be phased into the Townsville-based 38 Squadron as the Caribou is progressively retired toward the end of 2009. Three King Air 350 aircraft, currently operated by Army, will also be transferred across to 38 Squadron.

“The interim King Air lease will help Air Force minimise the adverse workforce issues that result from allowing gaps to develop in transitioning aircraft fleets,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

“It is important that we honour the debt of gratitude we owe to the men and women who have supported the Caribou for so long by providing a means for them to maintain their skills and streamline their transition to a more modern and capable replacement aircraft.”

The King Air is a modern aircraft with digital avionics, advanced displays and navigation systems and turbine engines, that will assist in transitioning 38 Squadron aircrew and technicians to the more modern aircraft types being considered under Project Air 8000 Phase 2.

“Our nation is extremely proud of the magnificent service that the Caribou has provided to the Royal Australian Air Force over the past five decades. While there may be some who are saddened to hear of the Caribou’s impending retirement, even the most vocal supporters of the Caribou will agree this decision is long overdue.”

“The men and women of 38 Squadron have been waiting for many years to know what the future holds. Today’s decision gives reassurance to them that the Government is very aware of both the challenges they face in trying to sustain such an ageing aircraft and the career management uncertainty that has been unnecessarily forced upon them after so many years of empty promises and inaction,” Mr Fitzgibbon said.

[tasdevil.f27]

sad to see them go. they have served us well :ok:

[Ultralights]

my first experience with aviation was in highschool, yr 10, work experience with 38Sqn, i will never forget those 2 weeks flying all over the state in the back of the Bou.

[aseanaero]

“Air Force is struggling to achieve four to five serviceable aircraft at any one time,”

How many does the RAAF have ?

[beave]

The RAAF has 13 left now after 285 was damged on landing in Efogi PNG last year. It had to be dismantled and the fuselage had to be cut up with an angle grinder so that it could be transported back to Oz by air and sea. You have to remember there is always a few in deeper level servicing, and some away at most times, so getting 13 up everyday is never really ever going to happen.


this is my favourite photo, taken in Noumea last year on excercise.


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii17/beaves_nq/noumea.jpg?t=1235045107

[beave]

Stuff it, here's some more. Enjoy.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii17/beaves_nq/Picture1049.jpg?t=1235046659



http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii17/beaves_nq/Picture1056.jpg?t=1235046948

[ForGreaterSafety]

Hey Beave,
Thanks for that, sad to see them go. I was an avionics tech on the Bou's, I'm ATC now and always get a little nostalgic when I get to control one. Living at Springfield near Amberley is great because at least I get to hear one from time to time.

Cheers, farewell and well done.

[peuce]

Hear them? ... You'd bloody well feel them !!

[Trojan1981]

I hope they are still going to fulfill their task orders for '09. I want one last sortie and to take some more photos.:ok:

[aseanaero]

The R-2000 was designed as a low octane version of the R-1830 , the R-1830 has an STC for mogas but I have never found one for the R-2000 , can the R-2000 be run on autofuel at reduced boost ?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

"BYE -BYE BLACK DUCK AIRLINES"..........................:{:{

We enjoyed your Christmas Cards over the many years.

'Wobbly One' C/S....and...."Do youse guys get paid by the HOUR??"

Best Regards Boys and Girls.........

:ok::ok:

[aseanaero]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii17/beaves_nq/Picture1056.jpg?t=1235046948

How much did you have to pay the kid in the white shirt (obviously the boss) to let you get out of the 'bou in one piece ?

[ampclamp]

geez I loved those bous.
a wonderfully designed and purpose built aircraft.Cannot believe they are still flying now.Ugly, slow and avionically unsophisticated.Bit like me really.

Spent many hours flying around in the back or standing up between the drivers.That was a hoot doing a stol landing.
First pan, first prop failure in flt (damn thing didnt unfeather during test) first emegency landing, first stall (setting up the stall computers).
Such fun it was.Thanks for the memories.

still have a bottle or 2 of their 21st anniversary wines stashed away somewhere as a keepsake.

[beave]

"How much did you have to pay the kid in the white shirt (obviously the boss) to let you get out of the 'bou in one piece ?"



Usually a bag of lollies will suffice as payment to the kids, though having them trample you in trying to gain said lolly bag is quite funny.

[ForGreaterSafety]

Gees Ampclamp, 21st Anniv wines, I've already drunk all my 4 bottles on 38th Anniv port.

Cheers
FGS

[aseanaero]

How does the Caribou and the PC-6 Turbo Porter compare for runway length requirements ?

[illusion]

This is what happened to the turbine caribou replacement- forgot to take the control locks out.

RIP

YouTube - de Havilland Canada DHC-4 Caribou crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH5hs0B5Oks)

[Critical Reynolds No]

Will one display at Avalon (not just static)? It will probably be the last time at a show.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

We are pushing four Caribous to AVV, so hopefully at least two will get there! :}

Seriously, there'll be a show gate guard just inside the entrance, one on the static line, and hopefully one flying.

[tinpis]

Anybody know the whereabouts of ex Movements Sgt Ozzie Osbourne?
Last heard Capt Ret.?

[tipsy2]

Tin, try leaving a message at the Air Despatch Association of Australia website.

The Air Dispatch Association of Australia (http://www.adaa.net.au/)

Go to the message board.:ok:

[povopilot]

Did I read correctly in the Herald Sun today that the RAAF is donating one to the museum at Point Cook?. If true I hope it is maintained airworthy and we can still see it in years to come.

Now lets see if they do the same with a Pig.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Was out at PC on Saturday and asked one of the Museum staff exactly that question. Gravel Truck and a Pig. Their biggest worry is where to put them.

Defence Minister was down here today and made the donation official.

[Lucky Six]

Was it Point Cook or the AWM? I think it was the latter.

Safe Flying

[tipsy2]

A couple of 'Bous have just flown south overhead Maroochy.

Nice to hear that distictive 'bellow' of a couple of round engines again.:ok:

[ozbiggles]

One of them on the way to its 'grave' at Oakey

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

One to Point Cook, one to AWM, one to Temora, and one to HARS. :ok:

[Trojan1981]

I notice there is a farewell planned for Townsville. Is there anything planned for Amberley? I'm keen to attend but Townsville is a bit far to go.

[rjtjrt]

What role will The King Air 350 have in 38 Squadron?

[Gundog01]

1 Star transport squadron!!

[Mick.B]

Its happening. :{

'Dame of the Skies' farewelled in Brisbane - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/06/2618374.htm?section=justin)

[Wanderin_dave]

Anyone know if there'll be a ceremony down here at Point Cook when they recieve theirs?

[tipsy2]

Another one has just rumbled south overhead Maroochy.

tipsy

[Jethro Gibbs]

what's happened to all the maintenance staff at aus aerospace that worked on these.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

They're going over to C-130J and to the MRH line - there may be some personnel/skillsets changes but numbers will remain constant.

[Fris B. Fairing]

... of the original 29 Canadian-built vessels ...


The Brisbane Courier-Mail reporting today that tenders have been called for the disposal of the remaining Caribou.

[Trojan1981]

With two to be preserved in airworthy condition :ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Bou's replaced by Kingair 350's till 2014?

Yes, I can see that. Both aircraft have very similar capabilities!

Who IS running the funny farm?

Dr :8

[peuce]

I believe that is so the drivers and mechanics can get up to speed on newer airframes, engines, avionics and performance ... for when the REAL replacement appears on the scene.

[Like This - Do That]

... for when the REAL replacement appears on the scene.

Which won't happen until the ADF specs Phase 2 of AIR 8000 in such a way that the C27J wins. Each time this has been attempted other systems start looking more attractive, but the RAAF wants C27Js, so back to the drawing board.

Meanwhile we have a humungous gap in our capability. :ugh:

[Trojan1981]

Quote:
... for when the REAL replacement appears on the scene.
Which won't happen until the ADF specs Phase 2 of AIR 8000 in such a way that the C27J wins. Each time this has been attempted other systems start looking more attractive, but the RAAF wants C27Js, so back to the drawing board.

Meanwhile we have a humungous gap in our capability.


Hey, the sign still says they are "the home of tactical transport":}...

[ozbiggles]

Current events now show what a disgraceful decision this was to simply save money at governments demand.
An army and Airforce stretched already fighting and policing and government takes away another option.
Well done

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I wonder just how much it would take to select a couple of the better 'Bous' and use them for Qld flood relief....??

Their potential in this situation will be sorely missed..??

Cheers:ok:

[ozbiggles]

That would be like admitting 'they' were wrong!
Yes they had to be retired but not until the army had enough operational MRH90s or the Raaf had replaced the capability.
The one at Amb 236, not much at all. The main issue would be the admission that the Airforce no longer has a short field/airdrop/NVG/fodder dropping ute (has a truck in the C130 but just how much work do you want those guys doing, they need a break sometime) and the paperwork side. The others at Oakey would be hit and miss.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Not wishing to denigrate the Caribou or defend the decision to withdraw them from service, but how effective would they be in the current situation where much of the State is under water?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I would imagine that there would be s o m e strips available for short field ops capability.....sections of certain highways for example...(??) where trucks with the 'necessaries' could off-load into 'certain suitable aircraft' for distribution to specific locations.
Cheers

[ozbiggles]

Good question well asked.
The photo of RK airport on that thread is a good example.
The bou needs only 1500 feet of that strip (or any paddock) to carry in its max payload and would cause only minimal damage if any.
Using the Bou for trash hauling would free up the choppers for what they need to be doing, moving people.
I've heard the farmers saying they need fodder drops as well or stock loses will be massive. Again a ideal job for the bou. Its not the glamour jobs it used to do but it frees up assets ie blackhawks/C130s/civilian choppers to do the stuff that gets on TV.
The public pay a lot for their defence force. This is the chance to pay it back on homeland. There would be few ADF at home at the moment who woudn't love to be helping out.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Anybody got Julia's number..???

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I've heard the farmers saying they need fodder drops as well or stock loses will be massive. Again a ideal job for the bou.

Can't the King Airs that replaced the Bous do it? :E

Dr :8

[Delta_Foxtrot]

Dr,

Ha ha! No effective payload or cubic capacity, no cargo door/ramp, no Flight Engineer to push stuff out, and heaven forbid a leased aircraft gets dirty inside...

DF
:ugh:

[rigpiggy]

with all the flooding, are you missing the Bou's capabilities?

[Like This - Do That]

The official line is: "no, no, of course not - light responsive air mobility capability provided by 38 SQN's Super King Airs ... blah blah blah".

Horse hooey.

Floods or no floods we're taking a massive capability holiday.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

As I have asked in another thread on this in 'the other' site.....

Does anyone have Julia's mobile number.......???

The silence is deafening - and as has been said - the capability is being sorely missed..!!!!

HELLO - is anybody from the FED's, HOME???

:}:}

[Like This - Do That]

no Flight Engineer to push stuff out

HURRUMPH! That's an Air Dispatcher's job, thank you very muchly :=

Link to Trojan1981's piccies:

The Home of Photos in Dunnunda! post 4287273 (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/238969-home-photos-dunnunda-176.html#post4287273)

[Delta_Foxtrot]

LT-DT,

Not entirely true... I did four years as a Caribou loadmaster and only occasionally worked with ADs - usually while they were undergoing training at AMTDU. Also, after changing seats to the front end, in the 1990 NSW floods, we were dropping 90 bales of hay per trip with local SES troops helping out in the back. Not an AD in sight during that job...

DF