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SpringHeeledJack
26th Sep 2008, 09:39
Chemical castration for sex offenders in Poland - Europe, World News - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/chemical-castration-for-sex-offenders--in-poland-1482565.html)

Although I am a little uneasy about this, in general I think that it could provide a solution to this age-old, yet increasing sickness within modern societies. At least someone has the courage to do something tangible other than monitoring of these miscreants and the like.


Regards


SHJ

BlueWolf
26th Sep 2008, 09:46
Without Googling I'm rusty on the details, but if memory serve correct, the Yanks tried this for a while some years ago, but have pretty much abandoned the idea because apparently it doesn't actually work very well in practice.

Devlin Carnet
26th Sep 2008, 09:49
Whats wrong with two bricks,
(As long as you keep your thumbs safe.)

Whiskey Oscar Golf
26th Sep 2008, 09:58
There's always marriage but that only seems to work on normal hetrosexual men.

Sorry but someone was going to......

Arm out the window
26th Sep 2008, 10:11
Age old, yet increasing sickness?
Age old, for sure - not sure about the increasing part. I'd say sexual abuse of kids has been happening as long as the human race has been around.
I do agree with the chemical castration idea, as long as it works - too many cases of child sex offenders doing their time, getting out and wasting no time doing it again.
One transgression of that kind is more than enough justification for drastic measures such as the removal of an offender's sexual capability, in my view.
There would be the possibility of wrongful convictions, of course, just like the death penalty, but some of these weird bastards are so blatant and remorseless, from what you see in the media at least, that I'd be happy to vote for their nuts being injected, or whatever the procedure is.

Standard Noise
26th Sep 2008, 10:14
It'd be easier to get the rusty scalpel out. No need for repeat injections then.

redsnail
26th Sep 2008, 10:25
Feeding time at the shark pool. That'll sort them.

Aussie Insider
26th Sep 2008, 10:40
Makes me cringe!

Windy Militant
26th Sep 2008, 11:08
I'm told Hydrofluric acid is one of the best chemicals for castration.
Mind you them rubber rings they use on sheep would be a pretty good deterrent I reckon. :}

SpringHeeledJack
26th Sep 2008, 11:54
Age old, yet increasing sickness?
Age old, for sure - not sure about the increasing part. I'd say sexual abuse of kids has been happening as long as the human race has been around.

Yes, age old and in many cultures part of normal sexuality, if the history books are to be believed. But it has increased dramatically in the last few decades helped in no small part by the medium that we are using, The Internet. It has allowed unprecedented access to material of staggering size (number of images/films) and this has drawn in not just the miscreants to whom child-sex is titillating by allowing them to support each other in networks, but also many others who wouldn't have had the means or curiosity before. It could be argued that there are any number of demons lying latently within each of us, that if given the right situation(s) could see the light of day.

Since the advent of the internet a whole multitude of sexual proclivities have been introduced to the masses and this 'pornofication' of the everyman love-life has been noted by sexologists in recent years. I believe the same effect (sadly) has encouraged the miscreant element in their illness. I was applauding the Poles on their consideration of this dynamic punishment to the paedophiles, rather than the usual incarceration and release with no apparent change in behaviour and of course, sadly the children that were the real victims are often put onto the back burner and that is perhaps the real crime in these times.

Obviously, many (judging by posts here) would love to 'let them have it' and that is a wholly understandable reaction to these bastards, but from a legal and human rights standpoint this wouldn't be a solution, however tempting.

Let us hope that other EU countries will consider these deterents seriously.


Regards


SHJ

Blacksheep
26th Sep 2008, 12:51
a legal and human rights standpoint In a recent case involving a claim for human rights made on behalf of a chimpanzee, the court's decision was that animals do not have human rights.

SpringHeeledJack
26th Sep 2008, 14:01
In a recent case involving a claim for human rights made on behalf of a chimpanzee, the court's decision was that animals do not have human rights.

Well you can blame that one directly on Johnny Morris and Animal Magic :) (UK childrens TV show in the 60s and 70s for outsiders). Without wishing to drift, do our simian cousins have paedophilic tendencies ? I know that they kill and sometimes eat the young of a rival, but sexually interfering with one too young to know or care ?


Regards

SHJ

airship
26th Sep 2008, 14:20
Ahhh, the almost weekly JB thread on how to lay all of society's ills on the doorstep of the paedophiles (ie. we ran out of arguments to bash the Americans / Brits / French etc.) which leaves us with...?! :rolleyes:

Did I just read someone drawing the inevitable conclusion that the Internet is somehow responsible for an unprecedented outbreak of worldwide child abuse? Yes, the Internet is evil. Just as surely as being able to watch (adult) porn movies on TV eventually resulted in the complete breakdown of normal loving relationships and family life. Why don't we ever learn? Why didn't we ban TV?! So let's ban the Internet. Isn't doing without online shopping, wikipedia, google, online shopping and email a small price to pay when it comes to our childrens' welfare? The proof is out there: fully 90% of police who've had to investigate these cases, the judges and juries involved who've therefore witnessed images of child abuse have all gone on to become child abusers themselves...

Instead of these regular weekly witch-hunts aimed at mostly 'unknown' child abusers, perhaps more preventative attention ought to be paid to the 80% of all child abusers who are either family members or at least where the perpetrator is well known to the victim and family involved: "Hello Uncle Paul, glad you could come over. Instead of the usual barbecue of lamb chops and sausages this weekend, you're guest of honour. Guess what...?!" :}

But I guess that instead of conducting any real discussion or serious debate on the general subject, we'll continue with the old tradition of 'who can suggest the worst torture to apply to the miscreants, wins'...?! :zzz:

fitliker
26th Sep 2008, 14:25
The best chemical treatment might be waist deep in acid :E:E

Does not matter if applied head first or feet first

galaxy flyer
26th Sep 2008, 15:49
Drapes not being around, I'll fill in--how about the PHYSICAL type. Certainly, kinder than acid bath.

GF

Krystal n chips
26th Sep 2008, 15:55
Airship,

Erm, whence came the source of your "90% of police, etc, etc,"became involved in child abuse ?

effortless
26th Sep 2008, 16:25
Chemical castration.

Is that like brewer's droop?

frostbite
26th Sep 2008, 16:57
What happened to the theory that allowing access to (any kind of) porn satisfied the desires/lust of viewers who did not then go on to inflict their fantasies on other people?

clearasmud154
26th Sep 2008, 17:22
I'm sorry to put a less serious note on this column dealing with a very, very real problem, but was I the only one who found an article about castrating paedophiles written by a man called Roger Boyes amusing?


I almost pi**ed myself laughing there... :}

SpringHeeledJack
26th Sep 2008, 17:31
What happened to the theory that allowing access to (any kind of) porn satisfied the desires/lust of viewers who did not then go on to inflict their fantasies on other people?

I imagine that in some cases whereby the form of sex is illegal and taboo it might work, but in most cases these days i'd wager that it just emboldens the person by blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. At least when the fantasy is inside the head we can 'own' it and (hopefully) take responsibilty as well and know it to be unreal. However when it is outside of us and part of a film/cartoon/game then we 'buy' into the reality of it and for some it has tragic results. Many youngsters playing violent computer games have been shown to display the symptoms of 'operant conditioning'

Operant conditioning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning)

I'd say porno unlimited will only fan the flames..... :(


Regards


SHJ

chuks
26th Sep 2008, 18:02
A lot of what is perpetrated by rapists and pederasts has to do with a wish to control, even violently. The normal sex drive doesn't come into it so much. I think it was found that a castrated offender will still offend, that the offender's sex drive per se is not the main cause of the problem.

As to pornography, much of it involves a real crime in its generation. Okay, the downstream consumer has not violated a child, for instance, but he's paying indirectly for that child to have been violated in the first place.

These two things aside, well, it's an on-going argument whether allowing people access to pornography, drugs, etcetera, will cause related crimes to decrease. That someone might satisfy his twisted urges by just viewing pornography... maybe, maybe not.

It's fairly well documented that there are people who simply escalate in their level of offending, starting for example with looking at feelthy pictures but then going on to commit real crimes against children. There is no way absolutely to establish a causative link but there is strong research to support this idea.

As to drugs, is it not so that the Netherlands has finally had to back away from decriminalising drug consumption? I think it used to be like the idea of taking your child to the candy store and letting him eat his fill, to the point where he didn't want so much. It turned out that druggies are not like that! Who could have guessed?

Some of the creepiest postings come from those who dream up mediaeval punishments for these offenders. Isn't there something creepy going on in their heads too?

Squeegee Longtail
26th Sep 2008, 18:43
Castrate them immediately. Then if that proves ineffective, the death penalty.
Come to think of it, the other way around would work better.

redsnail
26th Sep 2008, 19:50
Yep, I am happy for the abusers and rapists to meet an awfully painful end.
Raped at 10, abused as a teenager. The "law" said that it was wrong and unlawful, but it didn't stop it happening did it? So, stuff'em. They can die.

merlinxx
26th Sep 2008, 20:13
Just bang them all up together with no remission, then they can abuse each other to their hearts content, Simple "let those who abuse, be abused":mad:S

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2008, 21:25
I have lead a sheltered life (it seems).
I was 23 years old before I saw any pornography (and that was simple text - no photographs) . . .
I never encountered photographic pornography until I was aged 38 before I saw any images that were anything other than what might appear in Playboy magazine.
None of what I have ever seen has involved children in any aspect, nor have I any desire to see any . . .

airship
27th Sep 2008, 14:00
Erm, whence came the source of your "90% of police, etc, etc,"became involved in child abuse ? You're refering to: The proof is out there: fully 90% of police who've had to investigate these cases, the judges and juries involved who've therefore witnessed images of child abuse have all gone on to become child abusers themselves... Please excuse my poor attempt at sarcasm... :} Obviously they don't...?! But if you, 'John Smith', were to inadvertently or merely being curious about the subject, downloaded any freely-available illegal images, you could be prosecuted, be obliged to sign the equivalent of the Sex Offenders' Register wherever you are, or even receive a custodial sentence, were anyone to find out (unless I'm much mistaken). Why? Ask the folks who would prefer to ban all porn, violent movies and video games in general because they're apparently convinced it inevitably leads to the viewer being more likelier to somehow reproduce these experiences in 'the real world'...? := By all means, come down (hard) on people who actually carry out child abuse or profit from it. But the current McCarthyist-style approach to the subject of child abuse is IMHO, far too simplistic and a general cover that hides society's inability to address the underlying problems but makes it look like we're dealing adequately with them.

Raped at 10, abused as a teenager. The "law" said that it was wrong and unlawful, but it didn't stop it happening did it? So, stuff'em. They can die. What can one say to someone who has actually suffered? All I can truly offer is a humongous, if virtual hug. And express my sincere apologies for the conduct of my fellow homo-sapiens (and possibly why I prefer pudicats). If the victim should decide the punishment for the perpetrator, then may I remind everyone here that in 2008, it is Israel that has several hundreds of nuclear warheads, whilst the former foe has none. Every single living descendent of those that lost their lives in such atrocious conditions 60 years ago have a valid and moral right to demand vengeance. My middle name is German though I'm not, and whilst I can understand why Germany itself might disappear in some bright flash as a consequence one fine day, such action would be...counter-productive at best. I prefer to think that "what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger" and move on in order to make the most of the 3 score and 10 years we're allowed here on this much-maligned (unless it's really the 'normal state of affairs)' planet...

I understand that somewhere between 40-50% of all French prisoners are there because of sexually-related crimes. That's a lot of people. In the USA, it's mostly those that have been convicted of crimes to do with illegal drugs. Now that the private-sector are involved with building and running prisons almost everywhere including the UK, I imagine that the phenomenom of keeping prisons mainly-full, will increasingly take precedence over any true justice or rehabilitation efforts.

I wish I could be 100% for or against anything. I guess that I'm just not confident enough in my own faculties to be able to have any such certainties. I wish that I could also unambigiously state that I'd like to burn my fellow men at the stake (or in otherwise more painful manner) as if I was a member of some hugely-respectable club, but I can't. Call me wishy-washy if you insist. All I'm pretty sure of is that I've been here for 47 years and hope to be here for another 20-30 years (if the liver and lungs hold out). In my head are multitudes of jumbled-up images, of dinosaurs that once ruled the planet: of mankind's battle against invisible foes such as bacteria who are probably our best-friends even as we do all we can to annihilate them indiscriminately with antibiotics and that they'll have the last laugh finally (if bacteria can laugh that is). And wonder whether paedophiles fulfill some useful purpose at this time and place. :zzz:

Squeegee Longtail
27th Sep 2008, 14:36
You're not 'wishy-washy', you're a f***ing lunatic. :eek:

airship
27th Sep 2008, 15:14
If you could print that on a t shirt and send it over, I believe that I'd wear it, with some pride... :ok:

Krystal n chips
27th Sep 2008, 17:08
Airship,

Thanks for the explanation...it sort of got lost in the original translation.

ArthurR
27th Sep 2008, 17:24
The Latest PC way is to put a small sharp stone in the shoe, apparently it makes them limp.....


Castrate them from the neck down.

Capot
27th Sep 2008, 17:50
SHJ

Although I am a little uneasy about this, in general I think that it could provide a solution to this age-old, yet increasing sickness within modern societies. At least someone has the courage to do something tangible other than monitoring of these miscreants and the like.

Whaddya mean "Although I am uneasy...in general it could...blah blah"?

Have you never worked out why those who sit on fences have no balls?

FFS, tell us if you're for or against.

SpringHeeledJack
27th Sep 2008, 18:45
Have you never worked out why those who sit on fences have no balls?

Because they are castrated ?

Capot, why has it taken you 2 pages and numerous posts to home in on my good self ? Why do you care what I might or might not think about this subject :confused: I would imagine that my thoughts have been expressed already, at least in a "yeah but no but yeah" kind of way :rolleyes:

I would imagine that there would be few people who would support such perpetrators, but the legal system is duty bound to deal with these crimes in a measured way. If enough citizens were to express their displeasure, then just like in Poland things might move in a new direction.


Regards


SHJ

SMT Member
27th Sep 2008, 19:11
Got a mate who's a nurse at a psychiatric hospital. Amongst their "customers" are repeat sex offenders and/or child abusers, who've been sent there by the court as part of their sentence, or have been sent there because they're medically certifiable lunatics. Since the law doesn't allow for the castration of those bastards by way of knife or hammer, they hospital staff have found other means of ensuring they'll never function normally again.

Indeed, they're filling them with vast quantities of drugs, to the point where they're almost reduced to drivlling vegetables, and utterly incapable of ever again being able to do anything nasty, to anyone.

Indeed, chemical castration works just fine - and all it takes is a group of dedictated docters and nurses to sort things out. It may also cause permanent brain damage, but who gives a flying so-and-so?

Please note, this "treatment" is administered only to child abusers or repeat offenders - the hard core offenders for whom there are no hope - and if you ask me it's the right thing to do! I've seen some picturs, and seeing someone you've read about in the papers reduced to a vegetable was highly satisfactory.

PingDit
27th Sep 2008, 19:43
From the article in the first post we have:
Britain (http://www.independent.ie/topics/United+Kingdom) is to offer testosterone-reducing medication to sexual offenders before they are freed from jail. Germany (http://www.independent.ie/topics/Germany) has a similar scheme and connects the medication to therapy: the offender has to volunteer for both courses of treatment.

OFFER!? Presumably, after the legal profession have had their input, they'll be able to choose between this kind offer or Viagra.....

DAL208
27th Sep 2008, 22:06
Chemical Castration would not work.

I used to work in the Probation Service, and have seen and written many reports on Sex offenders. As someone else breifly mentioned, the problem isnt their 'sex drive' as it were, its their psychology. Whether it be due to feeling of power or inadequacy etc. Chemical castration would not alter how these people feel, they would simply harm children in other ways.

If Chemical Castration were to be implemented as a routine penal (sorry) punishment, it could have an undesired effect of creating a feeling in not only the judicial system but in mainstream society that the problem has been solved, and we could take our eyes off the ball.

Its a gimmick.