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Noah Zark.
25th Sep 2008, 22:16
Has anyone here in the U.K. any idea why car journeys are being monitored, by means of the Automatic Number Plate Reading System, and why the Government has seen fit to increase the amount of time the records of these journeys are kept has been increased from three to five years?

Parapunter
25th Sep 2008, 22:22
Because the Government:

a) Wishes to use all technology at it's disposal to increase road safety by using anpr to clamp down on uninsured/untaxed/disqualified/wanted drivers for the benefit of society as a whole

b) Wishes to use the elevated threat level as an excuse to prevail over the widest erosion of civil liberties in the history of our nation for the purposes of civil control and management.

You can choose which one to believe. I know where I am.

Capot
25th Sep 2008, 23:13
It's actually the ACPO which decided to install ANPR equipment for no purpose other than to record every single car journey made on motorways and A roads. They boasted about this on their website when I last looked (about a year ago)

They neither asked for nor got Government approval, other than tacit consent. They did not see why they should.

All Chief Constables agreed to use the funds at their disposal (ie ratepayers' funds) to install the equipment in their areas.

It is right to blame the Government for allowing it to happen. But the real threat to civil liberty in the UK is the ACPO, always has been and always will be. Every Home Secretary of each party waves his/her paws in the air while kowtowing to the assembled Chief Constables.

The ACPO has about 400 key members, who together comprise a powerful unelected body of people who by training and inclination are so right-wing that they can be described as fascists (small 'f'). They are unelected and answer to no-one apart from their own Police Committeees, ie local councillors who would no more dare to argue with a Chief Constable than they would dare to miss a tea break.

The ACPO has been undermining the British constitution and liberty for decades, and invariably trot out the two chilling statements to justify what they do;

"It will make our job easier"

and

"The innocent have nothing to fear"

as they quietly tell the Government to remove another liberty, and imprison, or perhaps shoot, another innocent person.

Edit

Before someone tells me, I do realise that you can't kowtow and wave your paws in the air at the same time. But the politicians always try to do both, don't they, so I thought I'd leave that as it was.

Loose rivets
26th Sep 2008, 00:23
I've mentioned a sign on the A12 I think it was, telling Registration Number ?Whatever? Slow down. The bloke in front of me jumped on his brakes...think it was the right number. We used to dream of this kind of recognition power. Of course, it could have been a hidden human operator.


Federation of Super Bobbies. Brings back a memory of a PC knocking on the door of my digs in Bedford. He told me I couldn't park on the street at night. Chief Constable's orders. I told him what I did and that I couldn't walk to the car park in at 3 in the morning for my flight. Never heard any more about it, but what an intrusive bit of policing. Told my mate about this recently, 30 years in 'the job', he was astonished...but I'm not mistaken.

Farrell
26th Sep 2008, 01:09
Go out and rent "V for Vendetta" on DVD.

Food for thought.

WorkingHard
26th Sep 2008, 05:59
Did you see the video of the motorway police and the 2 stupid women? One policemen told people he would confiscate their cameras if they did not stop taking pictures and disperse. He should be taken to one side and told what the LAW is in this country and it is NOT what any policeman decides at the time. I am appalled by this.

stagger
26th Sep 2008, 07:38
When people utter the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mantra think about this...

If all car journeys are being recorded and details being stored indefinitely on a central database - have you ever made a journey that you would rather certain people didn't know about? A journey - details of which you would rather did not turn up on a lost data disc?

e.g. every visit to...

- self-help/support group
- doctor/clinic/hospital
- prospective new employer
- "Cinq ŗ sept" (as they say in France)

stagger
26th Sep 2008, 10:20
Did you see the video of the motorway police and the 2 stupid women? One policemen told people he would confiscate their cameras if they did not stop taking pictures and disperse. He should be taken to one side and told what the LAW is in this country and it is NOT what any policeman decides at the time. I am appalled by this.

Yes - the most astonishing thing about that was while the policeman was threatening to confiscate cameras from members of the public (on dubious legal grounds) he had a BBC camera crew with him!!!!

Standard Noise
26th Sep 2008, 10:27
The ACPO has about 400 key members

Didn't realise we had that many seperate constabularies. But I could be behind the times.:confused: I thought there was only 56 seperate forces in the UK, that means they have an average of 7.1 members each in the ACPO.
Bit much don't you think, considering there are a maximum of 56 chief cuntsables.

Lon More
26th Sep 2008, 10:37
Stagger, I guess the reasoning behind that was that the BBC team was filming them at work with their consent. The onlookers were just "background"

The copper did also tell them to get back in their cars as they were committing an offence by walking on the Motorway - the same charge that was brought against the women.

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2008, 11:01
ACPO's members are police officers who hold the rank of Chief Constable, Deputy Chief Constable or Assistant Chief Constable, or their equivalents, in the forty four forces of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, national police agencies and certain other forces in the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and certain senior non-police staff. There are presently 280 members of ACPO.
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) is not a staff association (the separately constituted Chief Police Officers' Association fulfils that function). ACPO's work is on behalf of the Service, rather than its own members. The Association has the status of a private company limited by guarantee.
(From:- About us (http://www.acpo.police.uk/about.html) )

green granite
26th Sep 2008, 11:33
The answer, if you don't want your journey recorded, is to use only 'B' roads. :E

mr fish
26th Sep 2008, 14:45
the peoples republic of nottingham police have took to arresting anyone who puts a traffic cone (as you do!!) on their head.
i think it would f:mad:k them up a treat to purchase one from a supplier and wear it as a hat BUT, make sure i carry the reciept to prove my ownership:O

Out Of Trim
26th Sep 2008, 17:48
The answer, if you don't want your journey recorded, is to use only 'B' roads.


Or


If we all removed our number plates! :E:E:E

DBisDogOne
26th Sep 2008, 19:31
Won't always work as it depends on the view the ANPR has but if it's facing front, you can always ride a motorcycle.....

G-CPTN
26th Sep 2008, 20:11
About ten years ago, son had the registration (licence) plates stolen from his car. At the time it seemed strange, but in the current circumstances it would seem a viable method of disguising your identity . . .
Of course, you'd have to have a plausible explanation if you were stopped because the vehicle whose registration your vehicle was carrying turned out to be untaxed or uninsured . . .

There was a case where a garage fitted the wrong plates to a new vehicle, so there were two cars with the same registration number.

max_cont
27th Sep 2008, 08:44
My other half had a knock on the door by one of our finest a year or so ago. They wanted to know if I had silver XXX.

They were searching for it because it had been used in a drug related shooting in Bristol. Turns out it was the same make and colour, but with a copy of my plates. Luckily for me I could prove where I and the car were at the time of the crime.

Since the stated intention is to catch criminals, and by definition criminals donít play by the rules and will now clone registrations as a matter of course, exactly how will this system monitor anyone but the law abiding?

TerminalTrotter
27th Sep 2008, 09:00
Our local 'Ghurkas' have started erecting signs saying 'Police Enforcement Area' and 'Traffic Enforcement Area' around the place. What I want to know is, if I live outside one of these areas, do I get a reduction on my Council Tax, 'coz I'm not getting the same level of policing?

bunnywabbit
27th Sep 2008, 09:20
Yesterday. Heard on Wave 105.
Traffic survey in Bournemouth drivers were being pulled over in the morning and asked 3 questions.

Where have you come from?HOME

Where are you going?WORK

How much do you earn?

Capot
27th Sep 2008, 18:02
There are presently 280 members of ACPO.

Many thanks for the correction to my recollection of 400; perhaps budget cuts have shrunk it a little since I looked, or more likely it was a memory failure.

Be that as it may, the ACPO is a dangerous and pernicious group of people, exerting undemocratic and unaccountable influence over the future of all our civil liberties. The top bods, ie the Chief Constables themselves, are outside all democratic controls.

Those who would say that the Local Authorities' Police Committees exert democratic control have never been to a meeting of these self-important, unworldly, complaisant , white, middle-class, retired buffoons (male and female).

None of the above
16th Feb 2009, 17:37
Capot.................

Be that as it may, the ACPO is a dangerous and pernicious group of people, exerting undemocratic and unaccountable influence over the future of all our civil liberties. The top bods, ie the Chief Constables themselves, are outside all democratic controls.

This article tends to give credence to your assertions:

Body in charge of UK policing policy is now an £18m-a-year brand charging the public £70 for a 60p criminal records check (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1145581/Body-charge-UK-policing-policy-18m-year-brand-charging-public-70-60p-criminal-records-check.html)

OK, it's from the Daily Mail but the concerns articulated are valid.

Captain Stable
16th Feb 2009, 18:17
Where have you come from? None of your f :mad: ing business

Where are you going? None of your f :mad: ing business

How much do you earn? None of your f :mad: ing business

Standard Noise
16th Feb 2009, 18:24
Where have you come from? Back there.

Where are you going? Up there.

How much do you earn? More than you, c*ntstable, good day.

StaceyF
16th Feb 2009, 18:25
Where have you come from? None of your f :mad: ing business

Where are you going? None of your f :mad: ing business

How much do you earn? None of your f :mad: ing business

Slightly off-topic but you get asked similar intrusive questions by Dover HMCE (now renamed "border patrols") whilst you're in England and haven't yet set off on your journey.

They will ask you details of your journey, how much cash you're carrying and how much you earn.............telling them to fu*k right off (as my partner did last time we went) will guarantee you getting pulled when you come back into the UK, whereupon you'll spend an hour in the goonies sheds having your vehicle emptied and having to answer all manner of questions.

I often wonder why my dad died during WWII; I'm sure he'd turn in his grave if he saw the state that the sheeple of the UK have allowed us to have sleepwalked into :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Today, incidentally, saw the introduction of a law banning photographing police officers........

Standard Noise
16th Feb 2009, 18:43
These tw4ts come from the same low IQ pool of taxpayer funded idiots as airport police and Special Branch.
Used to get it every time I flew to or from NI, even up to the late 90s, and bearing in mind that most mainland UK airports used to corral NI bound pax into tiny segregated rooms (Gate 49 at LHR for example, about as comfortable and welcoming as Beelzebub's arse).........

SB plank - Where are you going to today sir? (As he looks at my ticket for Belfast!)
SN - Belfast.
SB plank - Where in Belfast?
SN - Hopefully the airport, but that depends on the pilot.
SB plank - What's the reason for your visit?
SN - Well, given my accent, it's pretty obvious I'm going home.
(Although I quite often said the first thing which entered my head, once said I was going to visit the polar bears.)
They used to get hacked off and buggered off in the end.

Don't think they're as accomodating these days.

frostbite
16th Feb 2009, 20:04
Today, incidentally, saw the introduction of a law banning photographing police officers........


More whittling away at freedom which we once enjoyed.

Loved the given reason - "It's for the protection of anti-terrorist officers".
In uniform?!

Blues&twos
16th Feb 2009, 20:32
Today, incidentally, saw the introduction of a law banning photographing police officers

More whittling away at freedom which we once enjoyed.


An unusual hobby you had there, Frostbite! I had a pushbike and played football in the park with my mates.....

ShyTorque
16th Feb 2009, 20:39
WHHHAAAT........ is your name?

WHHHAAAT........ is your Quest?

WHHHAAAT........ is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

"What do you mean.....an African or European swallow?"

"What? I dunno that......AAAARRRRGGH!

If only. :E

microlight AV8R
16th Feb 2009, 20:53
I'm sure it is all for our own good. We should trust the powers and authorities to do the right thing and not trouble our little minds. Just relax, open a can of supermarket own label lager, sit back and watch Big Bruvva.

Welkomm! Pliss valk this way......
Take off your clothes and join the queue for the shower :ugh:

frostbite
16th Feb 2009, 21:43
Take off your clothes and join the queue for the shower


Butlins?


yadayada

mini
16th Feb 2009, 22:19
There is one set of legislation governing the UK, so why have multiple Constabularies?

One law = one Police force?

All Balls IMHO, how many countries are we talking about?

... or does the Regiment system extend to civil policing? :suspect:

microlight AV8R
16th Feb 2009, 22:36
Yes, very much so.
The rivalries were quite noticeable between certain forces during the miners dispute of 1984/85.

Not one country, the Kingdom isn't actually that united. England & Wales are one legal entity so far as criminal law goes, Jockistan is another and Ulster is yet another variation. A Constable from an English or Welsh Force has jurisdiction throught England & Wles, but not beyond. Likewise, the chap from north of the border doesn't have powers south of the line.

Lon More
16th Feb 2009, 22:44
ACPO and Magistrates + bunch of Masonic Barstards.

Many years ago i got pulled for speeding in Luton (45 in a 30 zone) . Whilst being cautioned a mini was stopped for the same offence. I recognised the driver, John Gott who was a wellknown BMC rally team driver at the time. He was cautioned for doing 60. Co-incidentally he was Chief Constable of Northamptonshire at the time.
When it came to court i pleaded guilty was fined IIRC £10 and licence endorsed. The next case up was his; in his defence he claimed to have misread the rev. counter for the speedometer :ugh: and the case was dismissed. (60mph in top in a mini would be about 4000RPM so he should have known he was speeding)

G-CPTN
16th Feb 2009, 22:49
Good old Gott. I knew him too . . .
John Gott was born in Cheshire in 1913, his early interest in motor sport being nurtured as a riding mechanic at Brooklands. His first event as driver was the 1933 RAC Rally and he then did various hillclimbs, sprints and trials.

He joined the police force in 1937. Between 1942 and 1945 he was attached to Bomber Command and he was awarded the George Medal for rescue work during an air raid, and the MBE for rescuing the crew of a blazing RAF plane.

In 1947 he acquired an HRG and finished every Alpine Rally from 1948 to 1951, winning a Coupe des Alpes in 1951. By the late fifties he was a member of the highly successful BMC works rally team which dominated the Alpine and Liege Rallies of 1960, and he also took class wins on the Tulip, Liege and Geneva rallies, mainly in Austin Healeys.

In 1960 John was appointed Chief Constable of Northamptonshire and retired from rallying.

8 EMO was then fitted with a 1275cc engine and loaned to John Gott, Chief Constable of Northampton and also BMC team captain - to use in the 1965 International Police Rally.

He held this post until his death, and was known for his outspoken views on the wearing of seatbelts and speed limits. He took up club motor racing in an ex-works Austin Healey, with which he had many class, race and championship wins. He was also Vice-Chairman of the RAC Competitions Committee and sat on the CSI International Court of Appeal. He was killed at the wheel of his racing car in 1972.

Overdrive
16th Feb 2009, 23:13
I often wonder why my dad died during WWII; I'm sure he'd turn in his grave if he saw the state that the sheeple of the UK have allowed us to have sleepwalked into :ugh::ugh::ugh:





And you're 42? Born later from frozen sperm?

unstable load
17th Feb 2009, 00:41
Picky picky, Overdrive.....:D:oh:

Loose rivets
17th Feb 2009, 03:22
John Gott may 'av been on o' them, but he sounds like he was a really good bloke.

StaceyF
17th Feb 2009, 17:44
And you're 42? Born later from frozen sperm?

Nice spot, 10/10 for observancy :D:D

I realised as soon as I'd pressed "submit reply" that I'd probably said "dad" and not "grand-dad" but didn't think anyone would notice.

I now know better..........

Sciolistes
18th Feb 2009, 00:03
Looks like the ex boss of MI5 thinks that the UK is now more or less a Police State. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5750713.ece)

More comment here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5752380.ece)

UniFoxOs
18th Feb 2009, 06:15
John Gott may 'av been on o' them, but he sounds like he was a really good bloke

Too true, and one of the best after-dinner speakers I have ever heard.

UFO