Basing Poll

[Panther 88]

For all you at EK.
Question: Assuming EK won't offer basings in the near (or ever) future, would you leave EK if Gulf, Etihad or Qatar offered basings in Europe, N. America or OZ (if they offered you employment of course)?

[runkelj]

Answer: Immediatelly.:ok:

[tcas II]

no time to say goodbye,

[southflyer]

already left...

[Wiley]

I think Qatar/Etihad/(pick your airline) would be swamped with applications. Mine would be among them.

TeeCee please take note.

However, such is the arrogance on the top floors of the Sand Castle (have I just coined a new name for the **new** EK totally user-unfriendly HQ edifice?:ok::ok::ok::ok:), I suspect that if I held my breath, I'd be very blue in the face waiting for a favourable answer.

[fatbus]

Basings would be on much lower T&C's and would still go very senior and new hires would not stand a chance so would it really change the numbers of new app's? dont think so. fun to dream though and watch this thread

[Wizofoz]

Nope.

If any of the above paid the same for a based job as they do in the gulf (lets say salary+ housing+ education) it would add up to a reasonably competitive, but by no means first rate, package in todays (pretty dire) market.

Now pay tax (47% in Aus), private health, accommodation, rates, GST ( or VAT or whatever!!) and that grass gets brown real quick.

What a basing offer WOULD do is make it a virtual certainty that I'd work for EK (or whoever) till retirement- get the finances sorted and take the basing some time in the future, when I can afford to take the hit in the hip-pocket.

I'd rather be well paid and living in Australia than well paid and living in Dubai, but just scraping by is no fun anywhere.

[puff m'call]

YES!!!! Anything to get out of this sh1te hole in the sand.

Bloody stupid "Ramalamadingdong" is doing my head in.:ugh: Problem is when you've been here for a while it's like the golden handcuffs, nothing can match the deal....shame!:ugh:

[Wiley]

I would find something well short of basing more than palatable; a roster, with me based in DXB, but one that would allow me to break a pattern in a nominated major EK outport, where I could have my string of days off before picking up the return sector(s) of that same pattern 4 of 5 days later.

On returning to Dubai, I'd be quite happy - (well, let's be honest... 'happy' might be a bit strong; let's say 'content') - to do string of flights to and from Dubai, as long as I was allowed to bid for - and be given - a 'compressed' roster to fly my 85 hours or whatever as quickly as possible before I could bid for another flight back to my nominated 'away' port again to take my major set of days off for the month.

You'd probably have to come up with a single 'line' involving ~four pilots who'd nominated the same 'away' port to make this work, and what the company did with these four pilots while they were in Dubai would afford them as much flexibility as they have today.

Of course, this would mean the denizens of the top floor of the Sand Castle would have to drop the ridiculous '14 days' rule, and someone Up There would have to accept that not everyone thinks the Sandpit is heaven on earth where everyone desperately wants to live up to and after retirement.

Singapore Airlines could do it; KAL can still do it; if EK could get their heads around the fact that they could do it too, they'd quickly discover that they'd save more on training than it would 'cost' them (as in 'them', the landlords who are the same people as own the airline) in lost rents and money spent in Dubai's supermarkets. And it would fix the current housing crisis with 100+ pilots and their families living in temporary accommodation almost overnight.

[White Knight]

Wiley, I think the '14 day rule' has quietly gone.. I've got 16 days off in October..

[FlyingCroc]

I would change jobs also immediatly if any Gulf Airline would offer it. I think Wiley's idea is great and would be possible if there was some kind of outbase bidding possible. However an other idea is a new package with a contractor like they do at KAL, JAL etc.

[Wiley]

Unfortunately, with the current financial crisis in the US almost certainly guaranteed to increase the flood of applications from the land of the great ya'll, I think we're all a a bit guilty of proverbial self-gratification even imagining management at any one of the ME airlines in the foreseeable future would even take the time to consider any variation of what so many of us are wishing for.

I sometimes wish I would win the lottery. This dream is up there with a first division Lotto win in the likelyhood odds.

[Yossarian]

Damn!! Didn't win the Euromillions 100 million quid last night, so guess I will have to stay a bit longer. Basings would be great, but Wileys idea would be fine too. I wish the boys upstairs could get their skulls around it.

[Check 'Six']

Basings yes!!! Or even a commuting roster with sufficient time off in blocks. Something like Korean. And naturally the use of the jumpseats too!!

Definitely YES!

Check Six

[Wizofoz]

Check,

To commute to where? You realise that most countries would consider you a resident and liable to full taxation if you commute? Plenty of jobs available (or at least were until recently) that pay the same gross as here all over the world. Its the tax free status that makes it worthwhile. If you would be willing to commute to here, why not just take a job at home?

[Yossarian]

I know of one country where you have to be in-country for more than 183 days to be taxed. If I spent that much time at home, it would be worth the tax. But besides that, it is, like with just about everything else a very subjective matter. What may not work for you, may be just the thing I need due to family problems, health issues or even extended family problems. No-one can judge anyone elses affairs unless they are in exactly the same situation, which is unlikely.

[parabellum]

Just a read through the Fragrant Harbour forum should be enough for you to see why basings won't happen in EK. CX was once a very successful, cohesive work force at the top of the pay scales, then Basings started and it has gone rapidly down hill ever since. Every time you open up a separate base your are, in effect, setting up a company within a company and each 'little' company will only be looking out for itself, fragmentation begins and the rot has set in.

I think the HR departments of other Gulf airlines would be very much on their guard against people that were only coming to work for them because they have a Basings policy and may well avoid such pilots in favour of people prepared to live in the Gulf.

[FlyingCroc]

There are also plenty of lousy airlines in Europe or US managed by idiots, stupid Brits, Swiss, Spanish, Americans whatever. :yuk:
There are not enough Arabs to fly here that is why we help them fly. So why not make us all happy here and give us some options. :cool:
And the Bull about Cathay going down etc because of outbasing. I don't think that has anything to do with it. :ugh:
I am absolutely sure the first airline offering it would have lots of applications, then they would have actually have a choice who to hire.
And all those Brits who prefer to bake in the 50C tax-free heat would also be able to stay in DXB if they wish.

[mensaboy]

Basings will not happen at EK. There I said it !

This is the one issue that even economics will not change. No manager at EK will ever accept the fact that pilots COULD be based elsewhere. Just use your imagination to figure out why.

Even if it did happen...... it will only be due to a lack of suitable applicants........... something which is not going to happen for an extended period of time. By extension, it would only benefit NEW JOINERS and not the rest of us.

My God, look at the mess in the financial markets, we are lucky to be here. ''the times they are a changin''

I find it amazing that some pilots are actually considering this to be a possibility in the foreseeable future. WOW !

[FlyingCroc]

I agree it is bad now, but why would that not happen. And yes I could think why but at the end it is always economics, even at EK. :cool:

[parabellum]

"And the Bull about Cathay going down etc because of outbasing. I don't think that has anything to do with it".

Sorry, but it has everything to do with it, not 'bull' at all. Ask any of the old China hands, CX was once a great place but that was before basings.

[Panther 88]

I guess the point of my little poll was missed. We all know that it would probably snow here in the land of glitter before TCAS would offer basings or such. My point was, we are at a pretty successful airline with a lot of growth potential and a butt load of airplanes coming. However, if any of the other Gulf airlines (with all of the problems that are related here-and not saying EK doesn't have them) would you leave EK for employment with one of the others, if offered?:ok:

[Wizofoz]

Panther,

Much as there is the usual wailing about being here, my point was that if people haven't left here to work for carriers based in there own home towns, or indeed taken commuting jobs elsewhere, why would they leave EK for a commuting job elsewhere in the gulf?

[FlyingCroc]

It is all economics. And yes in todays situation there is no need for a base yet since there is not a shortage of pilots anymore, EK and EY take no DEC at the moment and even QR seemed to be very successful recruiting in the USA. But times will change, with all the aircraft ordered there will be a shortage soon and it will be massive.
I still think that there would be a possibility to hire contract pilots with base in US or AUS. Also with a clever roster you could right now schedule 2 week on and 2 weeks off and still fly 85 hours, so the pilots and their families could live at home in Europe or India or wherever. Of course then there might be a big tax issue depending on the home country. But this would be the problem of the individual pilot not of the company.

[Rabbitwear]

It is possible when Emirates start their low cost subsidiary, bases will happen.
A cheaper cost base will be needed so a basing without accomodation and schooling is the perfect choice for flight crew as well as a lower salary. Not to mention the drawcard for direct entry widebody crews without upsetting the mainline Emirates crews.

[Wiley]

...without upsetting the mainline Emirates crews.We have a comedian in the house.

[FlyingCroc]

and we just have to stick it out here in the sandpit until one of the two buckets is full. :E

[Wizofoz]

It is possible when Emirates start their low cost subsidiary

Know something we don't Rabbit?

[White Knight]

There will not be basings - because they'll lose control of the pilot body..

Simple, and makes the whole discussion pointless:ugh:

[Wiley]

You could put another spin to that comment completely and say that basings would be an even more effective method of isolating the pilot body, as seems to be the intention with the design of the new ops centre.


On the point of basings 'roooning' CX, I think the basings just happened to co-incide with (or were a part of?) a change of management style (ASL, B Scales etc), where some bright MBA breezed into CX with a management style he'd learnt at the Frank Lorenzo School of Airline Management, (which I see, if we were to drop the 'S', turns into a rather unfortunate, if all too accuracte acronym; maybe if we were to precede that with a pre-MBA course at the 'Frank Lorenzo Institute of Management', we'd get a really unfortunate/accurate acronym?).