Processor...choice of

[squeakmail]

Hi...I'm on the verge of purchasing a new motherboard, processor, RAM etc.

Choice seems to be - for EXACTLY - same price, either a Pentium P3 chip @ 700MHz or an AMD Athlone chip @ 750MHz.

Any worthwhile differences (assume all other components remain the same)?

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LIVE in peace...or REST in it!

[ExSimGuy]

Unfortunately, as you have probably found out, the motherboards for the AMD and Intel processors are not compatible - so once you make your choice, you're committed to the processor manufacturer until next mobo upgrade (assuming the chip manufacturers stay with their current socket long enough to be able to upgrade without another mobo change!!)

"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" - and the same applies to Intel. However, the Athlon option does have some interesting plusses. The most significant (IMO) is the processor-to-bus ("front side bus") speed. With Intel it is currently 100MHz (or 120?) but the Athlon can drag in data and ops from the memory at 200MHz - if you buy a mobo that has this capability and make sure the memory is compatible. Talk is that AMD will eventually get 400MHz processor-to-bus but I don't know if current mobos will allow you to upgrade to this.

You should also consider that most of the mag tests show the Athlon performing some 10-15% faster than an Intel of the same clock speed - and your choices have AMD with a slightly higher clock as well! (this performance difference could well be due to the front side bus speeds)

My own caveat is the hard disc speed - while our processor speeds have been ramping up over the last several years, we have not seen quite such an improvement in disc access speeds, so I tend to think that the HDD subsystem needs careful study. You can help this with GOBS of RAM (the best Windows upgrade ever invented!) but even with stacks of RAM caching the HDD, you still have to get it of the drive at least once every time the computer is switched on. So if you're upgrading an existing system, remember to consider if you are going to have to allocate more hard earned shekels to a new hard drive in the near future, in order to get the best out of your 700/750MHz procesor!

Good luck - and have fun!

[spannersatcx]

Whilst the AMD CPU runs at fsb speed the cache doesn't? The intel is onboard and does.
So although the AMD CPU is running at the higher speed it doesn't greatly (if at all) out do the Intel because of this cach(e)ing. At the end of the day you pays your money etc.....read all the good mags like pcadvisor/direct for unbiased reports.

[ExSimGuy]

Now what was I saying? . . .

http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=978&ei=1768227&ern=y

So now we have three variants of the Athlon - two "socket A" and one "an expanded socket 7, and everything non-compatible :mad: :mad:

BTW - the "reason" for the new "bigger socket 7" version is to reduce costs and to "bring the cache onto the chip"

[This message has been edited by ExSimGuy (edited 06 May 2000).]

[InFinRetirement]

Now, I am sorry to say that I think you are confusing him ExSim.

I would go for a SuperMicro board. Then you can Intel, AMD, and Celeron to your hearts content. Anyway, Celeron is good, very good and few people would recognise that it has a 66mhz bus. It goes like stink and I am happy with mine. I've got a 533mhz and I honestly can't see why going any higher will change things dramatically. In fact when I changed from a 400 to 533 it took a while to realise that the REGISTRY is the master - and you MUST clean it up regularly. That was after 3 crashes. The clean boot did the trick and I haven't looked back.

Still you pays your money and you takes your choice!

[squeakmail]

Many thanks for your efforts, ex-sim...but (pardon my French, "What the hell are you talking about?"...you lost me a long time ago.

I was expecting a few messages saying either "AMD" or "Pentium". All the stuff about front and side bus only serves to remind me why "point and click" is so important to me.

Seriously, I am grateful for your time and effort...but totally bewildered by the responses.

Thanks guys.

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LIVE in peace...or REST in it!

[ExSimGuy]

Sorry Squeakmail,

Choice seems to be - for EXACTLY - same price, either a Pentium P3 chip @ 700MHz or an AMD Athlone chip @ 750MHz.

My own evaluation (based on many mag and trade reports) is that an AMD will usually run most applications about 10% faster than the same clock speed Intel.

(Note that we're talking about the "K7" Athlon here - doesn't neccessarily apply to the older K6 series and the Intel Celerons etc!)

So, to keep it simple, if you can get the same clock AMD Athlon for a better price - go for it! If a faster AMD is the same price as a slower Intel - YES!!!

If you want to sound knowledgeable in the computer shop, just ask what speed "front side bus" the proposed board runs at (faster the better!) and make sure you buy the memory to match that speed.

InFin, Doesn't sound as if the board you suggest runs the "slot1" and "Slot A" (?) but sure, if you can get a board that supports both these (and hence, Pentium III and Athlone), that's a little bit of "insurance"

My point about the "new, six months from now" chips, is that they are going to have yet another set of socket types and so the mobos we buy today will be redundant again when we want to go to the processors running at 1.5GHz next year!!!

Hey, my current "burner" that I use for work is a Pentium II 450 with a mere 256Mbytes of (100MHz) RAM - and that runs Excel, Winword, IE, Outlook Express, as well as doing some pretty good rendering with CorelDraw in the forground at the same time!



[This message has been edited by ExSimGuy (edited 07 May 2000).]

[squeakmail]

Ok..that makes more sense...thanks.

Deal on offer is....AMD Athlon 750, 128MB 100Hz SDRAM, 32MB NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 AGP graphics card, 30GB hard drive (7200 rpm), Ultra ATA66 controller, 12X/40X DVD-ROM, CDRW, SoundBlaster Live! card, 56K PCI voice modem, 3½" floppy, keyboard, intellimouse, W98, Norton Anti Virus, Office 2000 Pro - all in a mid tower. No monitor.

Approx £1,100 delivered.

Are there more questions I should be asking...I've waiting for answer on "front side bus" speed.

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LIVE in peace...or REST in it!

[ExSimGuy]

I hope the RAM is not 100Hz !!

Seriously, if the RAM is 100MHz, that's probably the speed of the "front-side". If the front side bus is faster, check what the extra cost of faster RAM would be.

If you are going for the "dog's b0ll0cks" processor (well, it was last week!, try to make sure you can feed that hungry bugger all the bytes it can chew!

[squeakmail]

DOH!!! Yeah, 100MHz...you're right. Must get these fingers working properly one day.

Anyway...you seem to suggest that it a 'relatively low' spec. for the RAM...got any other suggestions. What should I make them sell me?



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LIVE in peace...or REST in it!

[Air Brakes]

I have been reading this thread and I would like to add the following information.

1) Is it fast? You could go on arguing the merits of front side bus over ram speed etc... till your blue in the face, 100Mhz over 133Mhz is irrelivant if the subsystems that support it are not well implemented. You still wont have a system to work on if you are still looking.

2) Does it have sufficient HD space? 30 Gb is not going to run out in a hurry. Even if it does adding another hard disk is not a big deal, and they are getting cheaper by the minute.

3) Will it run software that is available for the next year. Answer = probably without any problem at all, and upgrades will take it further into the future.

4) Make sure they use the largest Memory Dimm possible, ie 128Mb Dimm module. This makes sure you can add more memory should you need it.

5) Ask if they can supply a monitor, sometimes it is cheaper to purchase with the machine.

6) Coming with Office 2000 Pro is only a benefit if you need it. I have yet to meet someone who does not need to use their PC for word processing. Excel is good for expenses and other number stuff and powerpoint is good for shopping lists or company presentations. As for Access, I have yet to meet anyone who uses if for Home use.

7) As an IT manager I have been in a position to help people who want to purchase a system. Their biggest mistake has always been to become involved in the details of the system. It would be a bit like buying a car for it specs, rather that how it drives and looks.

Sure you dont buy a car alone on this spec. But then again you do not buy you dont like the look of.

8) Make sure you get some form of Backup system, whether that be a CD-Writer or Tape. If you system fails for any reason, trying to put all you data back from floppy disk is terminal.

9) Make sure you get a backup of the system on CD. If you have to restore the machine then at least you will not need to worry about where the backup of the original system is.

10) Finally make sure you calculate the cost of the system, when adding at least a printer.

I hope this is helpful and yes the AMD or the Intel processor will be fine, find something that you like and that has the biggest numbers in the spec list and cheapest price and then purchase it.

See ya

[squeakmail]

Air Brakes..thanks for that. (Welcome to Pprune).

Monitor, printer, scanner, keyboard and ForceFeed Back joystick will all transfer from the machine I am using now.

I'll probably shift this P22 (72MB RAM, 17GB Hard Drive, CDRom, CDWriter) into the guest room....may even network it through the new one...just to give visitors something to trawl the internet with when looking for "attractions" in the area.

Thanks for your input.

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LIVE in peace...or REST in it!