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View Full Version : French EDF buy British Energy (and take 25% of the output)


G-CPTN
24th Sep 2008, 00:05
Are we mad? Don't we need all the energy that we produce (and probably more)?


BBC NEWS | Business | EDF set to buy British Energy (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7632380.stm)

tony draper
24th Sep 2008, 08:01
We should do what we used to do int olden days,take the money off em them tell em to **** off.:rolleyes:

west lakes
24th Sep 2008, 09:18
Erm not quite

EDF will purchase BE to own & operate (and hopefully build more) the nuclear plants.
EDF operate as an Electricity Supplier (like N Power etc) so will sell the output to the UK market. Note we import a large percentage from France (EDF) as it is.
EDF also own what used to be London Electricity, South Eastern & Eastern so operate as an electricity distributor as well.

Centrica who are a separate company, they own British Gas, will contract to purchase 25% of the output for their own customers.

tony draper
24th Sep 2008, 10:09
Chap on the news said Britain no longer has the expertise to build and run Nuclear Power Stations,what the **** happened? we practically invented the bloody things?
:suspect:

SpringHeeledJack
24th Sep 2008, 10:14
Although the French are 'friendly' and run their power companies seemingly more efficiently than those in the UK, the question that needs to be asked is how is it possible that nearly EVERY water, gas and electricity company in the UK has been sold to foreign companies ? Whilst security of the nuclear facilities will be kept as before, the strategic security has been eroded by foreign ownership. Effectively French, German and Swedish as far as I know. In not so many years the UK will be fed oil and gas from Russia and have energy controlled by foreign companies.

Without being a scaremonger this has to put this island in a vulnerable position that cannot be easily reversed, outside of nationalisation of assets. That might happen, but with the effect of killing what is left of inward investment. I can't think of any other similar nation that has 'sold the crown jewels' as old blighty has. Perhaps this short-termist 'grab the cash' mentality will come home to roost with painful consequences.....:(

Regards


SHJ

west lakes
24th Sep 2008, 10:23
The main problem is that the UK reactor design is unique to us. The Magnox reactor was developed into the AGR, both use CO2 in the reactor core.
Most of the rest of the world went down the Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) route, the only one we have in Suffolk is an American design.

The heat from the core is transferred by gas (Magnox/AGR) or water (PWR's) to heat exchangers, these transfer the heat to the steam/water circuit that includes the generators.

EDF has been building "off the shelf design" reactors for years so has the designs to hand wheras if the UK were to build one it would be start from scratch, or employ the French/Americans to do it for us. Coupled to that is the indications that the PWR design is cheaper to build than the AGR anyway.


Not withstanding that Three Mile Island & Chernobel were both PWR's.
but both were operator errors!!

Standard Noise
24th Sep 2008, 10:48
The UK government, which owns 35% of British Energy....

Now, I'm not normally a cynical bugger, but a couple of months ago before the financial disaster which has befallen the UK happened, this deal was rejected. Now, with the frogs putting a couple of pence per share on the bid, it's going through, just at the time the govt is desperate for cash.

As I said, I'm not normally a cynical bugger, but...........:rolleyes:

west lakes
24th Sep 2008, 10:54
just at the time the govt is desperate for cash


HMG was always for the deal, as I understand it was the banking/insurance/pension investors that were against it. Of course they are now desperate for cash owing to the state of their buisnesses.


The Sunday Express reports that the Treasury has told British Energy to push ahead with an EdF deal so that the £4bn proceeds for the government can be used to help pay for assistance to the fuel poor. It is not clear what the source for the story is, and in any case resolving the sticking points for the transaction may not be under the control of British Energy management.

Energy minister Malcolm Wicks has described a deal between British Energy and EdF as "the most sensible option" and a "natural link", making it clear that a takeover of British Energy by EdF is still the UK government’s preferred option (according to the FT). However Mr Wicks has also stated that while the government is "very intimately involved", the group's future was "very much in its own hands". Nevertheless, according to the FT some of British Energy's biggest shareholders (e.g. Invesco) appear to favour a deal with Centrica. The UK government is said to be willing to sell its 35% stake in British Energy only if EdF manages to win the support of more than 50% of shareholders. According to the Daily Telegraph Invesco argues that a combination of British Energy and Centrica would solve the problems of the two companies, British Energy being long on capacity and short on customers whilst Centrica is the other way round.

According to The Observer, the UK government is still determined to see the acquisition of British Energy by EdF and has discouraged an offer from Centrica. The newspaper says that Invesco, a major shareholder in British Energy, had asked the UK government to reconsider the option of a merger with Centrica as an alternative to EdF.


From a briefing note I have seen (no link available). I seem to recall it was Invesco that were blocking the original deal.

tony draper
24th Sep 2008, 14:05
Perhaps the French are buying them on behalf of the Iranians.:E

Der absolute Hammer
24th Sep 2008, 16:09
SHJ, wonderful name, sounds like OK Corral and Marvel Comics with dose of Burning Man thrown in......
As far as Europe is concerned, England is not vulnerable. It is sunk.
Asset stripping is the game, Ferrovial started it. Now watch the EDF fund itself from the British tax payer.
Can't you guys see the hand laughing up the sleeves or do you pay no attention when you travel abroad - if you can afford the exchange rates!
Deepest sympathy for what comes - of course.

Flap 5
24th Sep 2008, 16:17
I agree with Jack and Hammer. How can we sell our energy security to foreign companies? Madness.

GrumpyOldFart
24th Sep 2008, 16:33
Although the French are 'friendly' and run their power companies seemingly more efficiently than those in the UK



Oh, come on, SHJ. The French don't do anything more efficiently than the British.


Other than surrender, of course.



:uhoh:

SpringHeeledJack
24th Sep 2008, 18:01
Sorry for the drift.....

Oh, come on, SHJ. The French don't do anything more efficiently than the British

IMHO, the froggies seem to be streets ahead of the UK in many areas and 'innovations' here now have been used happily for ages in La Republique. Transport.... as an example the French invested in a high speed nationwide(ish) rail network years ago and it got done, Paris has a high speed high density railway travelling north/south and east/west in addition to an extensive subway system. UK rail......:ugh: A joke, with well meaning enthusiasts, the London underground :ugh: and a 'crossrail' mooted to be built perhaps maybe in some years..... And then you have the subsidised fares in Gaul, now there's a novel concept :rolleyes:

Perhaps the French govt accounts are murkier than in the UK and these 'Grand Projects' are built as propaganda vehicles, but they get done, here it's just endless talk and commitees and then years late and overcost. Remember the Eurostar was constructed to fly along at 300km/h just until the UK and then it was reduced to 100km/h due to the track and no electrification. If 'we' had kept our side up to speed, it would have been possible to join the 2 cities in 2 hrs many years ago.

I have watched over the years as company after company has been sold, famous marques and successful enterprises one and all. I can't think of too many bigguns that are still under the control of home interests ? Perhaps it's because of this mentality or it's the reason, that the UK is going down the tubes (it would seem). Even our main airports sold out to a company that won't due to culture, debt-cost or love, give the travellers what is needed when flying and so they go ever downhill IMO. When travelling around and living elsewhere over the years I was always struck as to how patriotic the countrymen of X,Y,Z were and proud to be of where they lived, with minimal jingoistic froth.

Whatever, I resent the fact that in not so many years this island nation will have to be on it's best behaviour so as not to p1ss off the people who have their hands on our power, some of it literally.


Power to the people!!!


SHJ

G-CPTN
24th Sep 2008, 18:07
Those cheese-eating . . .


. . . think they are going to build several new nuclear power stations at existing locations and have them on-line and delivering elecktrickery by 'Christmas 2017'.

Pah! they haven't reckoned with our planning 'procedures' . . .

and then there's the appeal and the public enquiry . . .

Capot
24th Sep 2008, 18:38
About 4 years ago I arrived at the Severn Bridge with only enough cash to pay the previous and by then out-of-date charge.

"OK" I said, "here's my card."

When they stopped laughing they explained that TAG, the FRENCH company that takes our money to use our bridge, doesn't like or even understand cards because they are less popular in France then in UK. "Same goes for cheques" they said.

Then, still laughing gaily, they explained that what I had to do was drive back to Avonmouth (5 miles? 10, perhaps), find and ATM come back, and then they would let me through their sodding bridge.

So I rang the TAG Operations Director in his smart office in London, to enquire why they couldn't take cards. Luckily I'm an interpreter in French, because he couldn't speak English. He told me a stream of lies about UK Law (eg "It's illegal to pay by card"), about the difficulty of installing an ATM at the bridge (rubbish), at the same time as he boasted that this routine happened at least 10 times every day. He lied about the signage warning drivers about TAG's way of doing things. My only satisfaction was that I kept the b*****d talking for all the time it took to get to Avonmouth, get the cash, and return to the bridge, as well as getting some very rude remarks about the need to learn English before working in the UK into the conversation.

The point is that if we are going to get taken over by the French, we had better get used to the French habit of bureaucratic arrogance when running public utilities for their own convenience. They believe that being a bureaucrat is the highest aspiration they can have. They do not care in the slightest about the public, because in France this is not expected from bureaucrats. Anyone who has lived in France or worked there, as I have, will have come across this.

EDF are already notorious for bringing the French way into their administration. God help us when they take control of our power generation.

My only hope is that they introduce the guillotine in the UK before Mrs Thatcher snuffs it, so that she can be publicly guillotined for making all this possible. Followed of course by Tony, for being Tony.

And they STILL refuse to take cards at the Severn Bridge, which now costs over £5 to use.

SpringHeeledJack
24th Sep 2008, 19:24
we had better get used to the French habit of bureaucratic arrogance when running public utilities for their own convenience. They believe that being a bureaucrat is the highest aspiration they can have. They do not care in the slightest about the public, because in France this is not expected from bureaucrats. Anyone who has lived in France or worked there, as I have, will have come across this.

Agreed, you had me laughing there Capot. But somehow things get done and it serves the public interest. Talking of the French and cards..... I had 20 years ago a 'Carte-Bleu' that I could pay for nigh on everything with.......Chip and Pin, even when seated at a restaurant table, the waiter could come to me and with a remote device let me pay with the card. How come it only arrived in the UK in the last few years and was hailed as a breakthrough ?

The French can be very pompous, especially the bureaucrats, in a job for life, why should they make an effort ? :} That said I also found that once you were on the 'French wavelength' they were more than amenable. It's like different countries sense of humour, the same reflex but one that needs different buttons to trigger.


Chacun pour soi, et Dieu pour tous


SHJ

yakker
24th Sep 2008, 21:49
You have got to hand it to the French, now they can build 4 new nuclear power stations, not on their coast but ours. Then send it across to France, job done. Oh and sell some of the power to the stupid English to keep them happy.

airship
24th Sep 2008, 23:26
Capot wrote: So I rang the TAG Operations Director in his smart office in London...
...My only satisfaction was that I kept the b*****d talking for all the time it took to get to Avonmouth, get the cash, and return to the bridge... Well, they do say the British love a good moan, hope it was worth the mobile phone charges :ok:

Capot
25th Sep 2008, 00:43
Ahhhh..... the magic of an excess of free minutes...it was a landline number....

Overdrive
25th Sep 2008, 02:47
Not your usual utility purchase this one: EDF is 85% government-owned. So now not private finance, but what is effectively the French government, is acquiring, controlling and benefiting from another country's vital asset. Bit like the spoils of war really, but without resistance, and probably cheaper in the long run.

acbus1
25th Sep 2008, 08:20
I you think that the UK "Government" is capable of managing our energy needs for the next few decades, then you've not been paying attention to their efforts during the last few decades.

At least the French will get on with the job, as they have done with great success in their own country.

Yes, the French will reap the rewards, but they deserve to.

Far less well deserved, in fact not deserved at all, the useless individuals in our "Government" will walk away into early retirement and seats on a few Boards (of failing banks, no doubt) with their fat salaries and wonderful pensions, regardless of the mess they leave.

Standard Noise
25th Sep 2008, 09:53
Does this make us 'bacon sarnie eating surrender monkeys'?:confused:

Der absolute Hammer
25th Sep 2008, 13:44
Not at all.
It makes you....
Curry munching, lager swilling, public vomit surrender monkeys.

airship
25th Sep 2008, 14:00
Some people should be more honest and simply admit to their predisposed anti-French sentiments: Not your usual utility purchase this one: EDF is 85% government-owned. So now not private finance, but what is effectively the French government, is acquiring, controlling and benefiting from another country's vital asset. Bit like the spoils of war really, but without resistance, and probably cheaper in the long run. Spoils of war etc., do get a grip on yourself...?! :rolleyes: It would appear that HM's Government has finally given up on managing the UK's overall transport and energy infrastructure requirements. Obviously began a long time ago, probably under Margaret Thatcher. In the interim, HMG has apparently tried every combination of private / public funded initiatives without much success (or at least when it's involved a private company that's responsible recently, their board and shareholders get the same 'generous' government hand-outs that it used to take a few 10s of thousands of discontent strikers to obtain going back a few years...

So, in steps EDF, majority-owned by the French taxpayer. As many others here have already pointed out, the French 'system' does appear to at least achieve one of the objectives (ie. a country-wide high-speed rail network, a system of nuclear power stations that generates about 80% of France's electricity requirements etc.). It undoubtedly costs a lot more since all this is being acheived under the guidance of elitist French bureaucrats. But compare that to what the UK has been able to achieve using dubious private / public 'partnerships' in similar spheres, which apparently imdemnify the 'private' parties so generously...?! Someone else can supply the real statistics for the UK's 'high-speed rail network' and 'nuclear-powered electricty generation', I can't be bothered knowing that they're pitiful in spite of all the government cash that's been thrown at them.

It might appear to some to be a very 'soft takeover' of the UK by the French government. But that's only because HM Governments over the years have literally abandoned many of the basic governmental responsibilities for the UK's infrastructure. EDF (and the French taxpayer) will hopefully eventually profit from the exercise, it would appear to me anyway an astute move that the French invest their 'available taxpayer's funds' in supplying basic requirements for energy in her friendly UK neighbour (warts, moans, Trafalgar and all that notwithstanding) than giving away their equivalent of US$800 billion bailing out their Wall St. fatcats...?!

Whatever, President Sarkozy has already pretty much said that he'd like to privatise EDF (ie. sell off as much of the government's stake in it) as soon as possible. Until now, it's the French unions and a prior French government undertaking not to hold less than a certain minimum % of EDF that stops him from flogging off EDF's assets cheaply to the generally 'esteemed private investors', much like what happenned in the UK during the past 2-3 decades...?! :} Goodness knows how much ex. British rail property was sold off for redevelopment as housing 'as their reward for taking on the risks'...? Thanks also to President Sarkozy, we only have 1 French satellite TV operator today, where there were once 2. But you can't reasonably expect to benefit from the use of a privately-owned superyacht when you need a short holiday break 'for nothing'... :uhoh:

Nonono, if there is any quiet invasion going on, it's a British one of France. As I understand it, over the past few years when the wisest Brits decided to take their profits and run off to somewhere property prices had not risen beyond all comprehension, they came to France...?! :ok:

shack
25th Sep 2008, 14:04
Not quite sure where you get your 85% from Mr. Overdrive, I have held shares in EDF since it was partially privatised and they are doing very nicely thank you. If the UK ever gets off of its fat a**e it could get things done for itself then you would not have to winge about other countries seeing opportunities and taking them. Over 90% of electricity in France is generated from nuclear stations so the expertise is there.

SpringHeeledJack
25th Sep 2008, 14:36
Just read this and it makes you wonder, if it is true

Why has no-one commented on the fact that EDF's media guy in the UK is none other than Andrew Brown, our esteemed PM's brother. And why have the papers not reported on the donations to both the Labour AND Conservative parties by EDF?


Regards


SHJ

airship
25th Sep 2008, 15:25
You read it where? Or are we all expected to blindly trust each other now, as we have to in our dearly-beloved governments...?! :}

SpringHeeledJack
25th Sep 2008, 15:51
are we all expected to blindly trust each other now

Brother Airship, you can trust me, i'm not a politician :E


Regards


SHJ

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2008, 16:46
EDF - Nuclear Spin (http://www.nuclearspin.org/index.php/EDF)
Business big shot: Andrew Brown - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/movers_and_shakers/executive_movers/article4446279.ece)

airship
25th Sep 2008, 17:39
Thanks G-CPTN. SHJ, wouldn't it be much more simpler if you were to post these links with your posts though?! Just that the older I get, the more dubious I become...?!

PS. You're not my brother yet, but that's probably because I don't even trust my own brother (ever since he tried everything possible to seduce the receptionist at the hotel where we both worked once, just because he knew I liked her...) :sad:

SpringHeeledJack
25th Sep 2008, 17:49
PS. You're not my brother yet, but that's probably because I don't even trust my own brother (ever since he tried everything possible to seduce the receptionist at the hotel where we both worked once, just because he knew I liked her...)

Fear not Airship, it was meant in a trades union/evangelical way, with NO sibling rivalry included :)

There was no link as it was an unsubstantiated comment from someone in the know, apparently. G-CPTN was kind enough to dig deeper, for which we are grateful.

Regards

SHJ

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2008, 18:01
Googoo is your friend . . .

BenThere
25th Sep 2008, 18:59
I admire France for many things, having lived there over two years of my adult life. More than any country France has mastered the good life, fine food and wine, cultural elegance, even my own freedom as an American traces back to French assistance in the original liberation.

But perhaps most of all, today, I admire France for its clear-eyed assessment of its need for a domestic supply of energy, and its logical commitment to nuclear power generation as a primary source of fulfillment of that need.

In the US, thanks to the irrational influence of Hollywood, the Green movement (in competition with Communism, given the malaria deaths caused by the banning of DDT and starvation deaths caused by resistance to GM food production, the greatest killer of people of the last 100 years), and other entities on the left, we have shut down tens of billions of dollars worth of nuclear power plants, much to our distress today.

No one has been hurt, even in the 3 Mile Island release, in the US nuclear power industry. More are not only hurt, but killed, in a good month in the process of coal mining. In China coal mining is more dangerous than military service. Has there been any outcry based on fact in France over the danger of their nuclear processors?

It's probably well and good France should operate the UKs energy infrastructure, as they know what they're doing, and nuclear power is very much in all of our futures.

SpringHeeledJack
25th Sep 2008, 19:42
Has there been any outcry based on fact in France over the danger of their nuclear processors?

There was coincidentally, in late July, early August a couple of serious leaks from some nuclear plant in France, I seem to recall somewhere in Provence and there was alarm in the local area due to a river being polluted.

They are the leaders in Europe with Atomic Energy, but it just goes to show that accidents do happen. Another quirk of France is the seemingly 'close' relationship between government and the press and this, at times can minimise certain incidents. Whatever, I'd rather have the French in charge of the energy than the Russians or the Italians :}


Regards


SHJ

Der absolute Hammer
25th Sep 2008, 19:57
Yes.....but do not forget that when the Malvinas War was on, Froggy was telling Argie how to programmo his Exocet to kill the Tommy!
Froggy will croak whoever is his friends foe.
England should better prepare for the taking of Frances north african debris.....Oh, so sorry, economic migrants

BillHicksRules
25th Sep 2008, 20:46
SpringheeledJack,

"the question that needs to be asked is how is it possible that nearly EVERY water, gas and electricity company in the UK has been sold to foreign companies ?"

the answer to your question is quite complicated in depth but in short it is all down to Thatcher, Major and Blair.

EU agreed that all markets for Elec, Gas etc should be open to full competition.

So the UK first under Mrs T and then under those who followed her went hell for leather to open up to competition whereas the French and the Germans sat back and waited.

Whilst almost all the high earning monopolies in the UK were smashed by HMG the French and Germans maintained theirs.

Every so often they would get a token fine (and I mean token, less than 0.1% of their annual profit) whilst amassing huge war chests to eventually raid their "weaselly black guts out" (apologies to Captain Jack Sparrow) in our utilities market.

The French and the Germans played the game by their own rules and have won.

We were out thought. Plain and simple

Cheers

BHR

SpringHeeledJack
25th Sep 2008, 21:23
Thanks for that explanation Mr Hicks.

Strangely enough in Germany quite a few energy companies got bought out by Vattenfall from Sweden. I wonder who got the Swedes ?


Regards


SHJ

west lakes
25th Sep 2008, 21:31
It's probably well and good France should operate the UKs energy infrastructure, as they know what they're doing, and nuclear power is very much in all of our futures.

Just for completeness UK generation: -

Gas - 45.7%
Coal - 32.2%
Nuclear - 12.6%
Renewables - 5%
Oil - 2.8%
Imported (from France) 1.7%

The generation side is operated by a large number of companies all who will have contracts in place with Electricity Suppliers (most suppliers operate their own generation anyway)
The overall control of all of this is by National Grid, who decide in a fairly strictly agreed order of merit (which includes reference to the overall efficiency of individual plants), which power stations are operating at a given time, they also control the cross channel link.

Overdrive
26th Sep 2008, 01:50
Not quite sure where you get your 85% from Mr. Overdrive


It's here for a start, along with some other facts, and easy to confirm if you look.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aV6SA4.hEUnc&refer=home)



Some people should be more honest and simply admit to their predisposed anti-French sentiments:

No, some people should realize that:

1. When one is talking about people from France, the applicable word is "French".
2. Not every concept that flashes into your head is a direct result of what you've actually just read. Read again and look more subjectively for signs of anti-French sentiment; and anyway,
3. The French have never (yet) managed to take enough from "us" to make me feel resentment (I include "managed" to give you another possible to snarl at airship). The spoils of war analogy is general, and easy to understand for most I thought.

While some posters on here have commented on the possible operational benefits of this deal, my concern is based upon my opinion that the UK is becoming ever more vulnerable, should things ever change in certain ways. We make nothing, we have ever less, we are still selling what's left of everything. To relinquish actual or even potential control of vital energy is wrong. We already get the worst end of the deal cost-wise since the growth of foreign ownership.

If there are ever power availability problems in the future, will the French favour the UK?

airship
26th Sep 2008, 13:15
If there are ever power availability problems in the future, will the French favour the UK? Huhhh? :confused: We're talking about nuclear power stations: those pre-existing and new ones to be built, all on UK soil. Electricity is usually carried along wires, not some 'imaginary conduit' that can be subverted at the whim of some cocky existing or future French President... :rolleyes: It's clear that HMG aren't willing or simply do not have the funds available to invest public money into power generation and apparently no other (UK-owned) private enterprise is willing to match EDF's commitment to the UK.

What are you looking for? That the USA throws you an extension cord just in case? Or perhaps you'd prefer an exclusive gas pipeline running directly from Russia and building gas-powered power stations instead...? Stop berating the French for your own perceived and HMG's very real inadequacies. I'm 100% sure that the French won't be able to cut off the UK from it's own nuclear powered reactors. But I'm pretty sure that EDF could easily cutoff supply to an individual domestic consumer if they're late paying their bill (or even just because they felt like it)... :E

Overdrive
26th Sep 2008, 16:15
What are you looking for?



A sensible intent by government towards independence and self-sufficiency in areas of vital national importance. Like the French, who are augmenting their future needs by having 25% of the supply from the new stations as part of the conditions, as contrasted to the UK sell-it-all approach.

I'm berating the UK, but you seem blind to that. Guess you're wearing a stripey shirt.

I'd be interested to see the contract/conditions as to future control of the cross channel link by the National Grid, as mentioned by west lakes, when these facilities are on line.

airship
27th Sep 2008, 12:55
Overdrive: Like the French, who are augmenting their future needs by having 25% of the supply from the new stations as part of the conditions Oh really? :confused: What has been reported (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7632380.stm) is that Centrica will take a 25% stake in British Energy along with 25% of the output from existing and new nuclear power stations, with EDF owning the rest. So the French will in fact be taking 75% of the total output... :}

But as I've already implied, it doesn't mean all or any of this output will be fiendishly exported back to France. Though it would make some sense to have some regular exchange I guess, considering the UK and France are in different time zones: Dungeness and mates could send over a few 1000MW to the French whilst they enjoy their morning café with croissants and then once they're at work, Gravelines et potes could return a few 1000MW to the British when consuming their mugs of tea and kippers an hour later. When you think about it, it's a bit of a shame the French can't also 'send over their rail network' in quite the same instantaneous and temporary way! ;)

west lakes
27th Sep 2008, 13:47
But as I've already implied, it doesn't mean all or any of this output will be fiendishly exported back to France. Though it would make some sense to have some regular exchange I guess, considering the UK and France are in different time zones: Dungeness and mates could send over a few 1000MW to the French whilst they enjoy their morning café with croissants and then once they're at work, Gravelines et potes could return a few 1000MW to the British when consuming their mugs of tea and kippers an hour later.

Which is how it was designed to work

Overdrive
27th Sep 2008, 16:12
So the French will in fact be taking 75% of the total output... http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif




Hell, it's even worse than I thought :(

airship
27th Sep 2008, 16:31
Which is how it was designed to work Excuse me, how 'what exactly was designed to work'? Or am I merely being over-critical and missing the assumption that it's all part of our dear leader's (GB's, not GWB's) great overall plan then...?! :confused:

Overdrive, you might 'win more votes' if you simply and humbly admitted to having made an error of judgement or interpretation, as opposed to merely continuing with the useless charade...?

After all, it's not as if you personally dragged the UK into an illegal invasion of Iraq on the basis of mainly fabricated or else extremely poor interpretation of the intelligence available. The worst that could happen is that someone sticks a comment at the bottom of your dossier: subject shows promise, should try harder next time...?! :p Are the French allowed free access to Echelon dossiers? Whatever, expect a 'shoot on sight' observation, signed GIGN. ;)

Overdrive
28th Sep 2008, 04:16
Overdrive, you might 'win more votes' if you simply and humbly admitted to having made an error of judgement or interpretation, as opposed to merely continuing with the useless charade...?




Jeez airship, are you unwell or just incredibly self-centred? I'm not after any "votes". I posted my opinion. I think it is wrong that vital British assets are allowed out of secure British control. Where's the error of judgement or interpretation in that? Apart from it being a different view than yours? I've said this several times, and also included "should things ever change in certain ways".

This is similarly opined in the link you posted:


The deal will be controversial, BBC business editor Robert Peston says, because it will be seen by some as handing the UK's nuclear future to a company owned by the French state.



What's so hard to understand?

Capot
28th Sep 2008, 10:19
One has to admit the strength of the argument that the nuclear generating equipment built by EDF, together with the means of distribution, will be in the UK. All we are talking about is control of both, and if the Government of the day has the need, will and balls to take control it can, regardless of its ownership.

It's called nationalisation, which is and will remain a power held by any Government of any State if there is a national emergency. Just like nationalising a Bank. Compensation to the owners is not guaranteed, and depends on the nature and cause of the emergency.

If a Bank needs to be nationalised to protect depositors, borrowers and the financial system because the management have been greedy, stupid, and incompetent there is no need to compensate its owners who bear responsibility for preventing that.

If 8 nuclear power stations need to be nationalised because their management is acting against the UK interest, there is no need to compensate the owners who should have made sure that doesn't happen.

Remember the Suez canal? Egyptians decided it was theirs, not its stockholders', and took it by nationalisation. They've still got it.