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mr fish
21st Sep 2008, 22:49
my police are armed with g36 and glocks, why not sa80 and brownings.
if the current british arms are good enough for the frontline, why not for guarding airports and courthouses?
i'm not having a dig, it just makes me wonder!

Two's in
21st Sep 2008, 23:25
It's a question of the type of response likely to be required. Infantry soldiers need to bring to bear a high rate of fire and wide "beaten zone" onto an enemy position. Accuracy is a factor, but not the only one. Any collateral damage will only take out further bad guys.

Where quantity has a quality of its own, there is nothing wrong with the current Military issues weapons, but bear in mind they were delivered by the lowest bidder, not the best equipment provider. Remember that the Military branches also have specialist sniper weapons and training where accuracy is a key requirement.

When a Police Officer opens fire in a public environment there is a much higher requirement to hit the target accurately and not have the round exit the bad guy and take out Joe Public, so lower velocity but more accurate weaponry and ammunition is needed. It's just horses for courses.

G-CPTN
22nd Sep 2008, 01:41
Maybe they should use crossbows?

niknak
22nd Sep 2008, 01:53
I understand that the police work very closely with MOD firearms specialists on a constant basis to assess what weapon is most suitable for the wide variety of tasks in which they may have to be deployed in.

Don't worry about what they are using, just be assured that they're almost certainly going to have the right piece of kit when it's needed.

Scooby Don't
22nd Sep 2008, 02:40
The Browning Hi-Power is used by the army simply because replacing it is a non-issue. Whether a Glock or simlar polymer-framed pistol would be appropriately beefy with SMG ammunition is perhaps a consideration - the army's Brownings have stronger recoil springs than regular Hi-Powers to take the beating from such ammo. The US armed forces take pistols far more seriously, since they believe in having a back-up weapon for CQB.

Glocks are generally easy to use by people who may have limited training time available (the controls being simple) and those who carry a lot but fire seldom (they are comparatively lightweight).

As for the carbines, the police don't really want the power and penetration of the 5.56mm round as chambered by the SA80, so it pretty much has to be a 9mm. For long range work I'm sure they have adequate sniper rifles, but the G36 or MP5 are perfectly adequate when the idea is to show force rather than use it.

Loose rivets
22nd Sep 2008, 05:02
Hours of trying to make my Browning Hi-Power more accurate failed miserably. Firing an army offering at Colchester left me wondering where the round was going. Leaving the other eye open revealed that it was going just below the next target.

Glocks are astonishingly accurate. I just can't see why they should be, but they are. They are also almost unstoppable. There's a film of one being dropped from and aircraft, burried in mud for a week, run over, left in dirty water, well, you get the picture. Every time it just worked. The thing is that they rely on doing the last bit of the cocking during the firing pull. I'm not an enthusiast anymore, so havn't taken mine totally to pieces, but the mechanism is odd and at first you don't know when it's supposed to go off.

Remember, the moment of firing is supposed to come as a surprise, since you never jerk at the trigger.

Staying right on the dot while you pull so far can be verging on tedious. But it's this long pull that is supposed to be the excellent safety feature.

tonker
22nd Sep 2008, 10:20
It's funny how the SAS have used the browning for years with i guess great success.

Bad workmen and all that.;)

Scooby Don't
22nd Sep 2008, 12:11
These days, I think you're more likely to find a SIG P226 in the SAS armoury.

Foss
22nd Sep 2008, 12:52
Last time I went on a shooting course I was firing a S&W .38.
Absolutely rubbish. (Me)
BANG. miss. BANG BANG miss miss.
'This gun's broken.'
If a terrorist had come running at me I would have been better waiting, then hitting him with it.

I'm better with a Ruger.
BANG
Yip, that hit.

BarbiesBoyfriend
22nd Sep 2008, 13:18
I've done a lot of shooting with the Hi-Power.

For sure it takes a bit of getting used to but it's great for frightening the enemy if not actually harming him.

Top tip. really careful scrutiny of mag feed lips minimises stoppages. Also once you've got a bunch of mags that work- keep them. It's the mags that are the key to stoppage free shooting with the browning.:ok:


As far as the police are concerned. Most are so monumentally stupid that the issue of weapons and live ammunition should never be contemplated.

Foss
22nd Sep 2008, 13:35
Playing with guns.
I'm doing my best.
Being very safe. Ear defenders, goggles.

Two kids, about 20. Walk up to the stall next to me..
They're like skater dudes. Baggy shorts.
Two 9milly appear.
BIP BIPBIP BIPBIP BIP BIP.

A whole clip. Produce another one each from their pockets.

BIP BIP BIPBIPBIP BIPBIP.
But that was in the States.

Loose rivets
22nd Sep 2008, 21:09
It's funny how the SAS have used the browning for years with i guess great success.

Bad workmen and all that.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Oh, POO!:*

Spent ages 'Accurizing' that darn thing...mind you, we couldn't afford 'Factory rounds' in those days, I guess a nice shiny box of Winchester Luger 9mm would have made it hone in a bit. The army one was clapped. I mean, fall to pieces when you pulled the slide back, clapped.

Remember, I was up against some top clubs. The competition was about as though as it could get. 50 yard turning targets and the like.

Funny hobby for one that couldn't kill a mouse. Literally. Used to trap them and ask them nicely not to come back.

Recently been watching my pal in Essex fine tuning his rounds. The powder is metered by an automatic dispenser that gets its info from a scale via infra-red link It is accurate to one particle of powder. When the bullet is pressed in, he then puts it into a little machine he made, that rotates it and fine-tunes the centering of the tip with a dial micrometer. The missile starts life very accurately in the exact middle of the chamber. A 500 quid barrel starts to go off after 500 rounds. It's a seriously expensive sport now. Totally different to my day.

mr fish
22nd Sep 2008, 22:51
way, way back in my misspent youth we used to shoot prometheus (teflon coated steel )airgun slugs from webleys.
the 'target' was a coke can on top of someones head!!!. i hit one at 25+ yards and thorght i was vasily zeitsev.
those were the days:eek:

Jimmy Macintosh
23rd Sep 2008, 00:54
Foss,

Did you ever get your guns back?

That was an excellent thread...****, **** feckity **** with a side order of ****.