Obnoxious Behaviour

[crack-up]

I had the fortune (misfortune!) to witness a most remarkable dummy spit on friday, and it was by a person I now know to be a regular contibutor to these foums, and the driver of a funny "V" tailed thingy.

Oh such language in earshot of a lady!:=

I followed up this disgraceful display with the poor unfortunate recipiant of this totally uncalled for tirade, soon after the BAD tempered individual had moved away. Seems he has the entire airport in agreeance, and that this is the norm if all isn't his way.

As an outside looking on for the first time, all that was required was a "G'day mate, I am about to pull my aircraft out of the hangar, can you move yours a bit?" As I saw it, he could have got out anyway, but might have had to do a small turn or two.

Some people, despite their airs and graces, just go through life making things awkward for others. I don't know the history as I am not there often, but the airmanship displayed was OFF! What made it worse was he was only going to do a run up and then leave his aircraft at another establishment for maintenance.

Why the hurry and abuse for such a trivial situation? Wake up to yourself, and have the b..ls to apologise to the fellow who didn't do anything but help you!

Glad he isn't my friend.....then again his sort would never be, I only like well mannered pilots! :mad:

[Islander Jock]

Must be something about people who fly these things. Over here in the west a similar situation arose when Mrs IJ asked said aircraft pilot if he could move his aircraft a bit so she could get ours out. Lazy SOB jumped in to manipulate the pedals and said "ok- you push". useless ****!

[Dogimed]

Ooooh, narrowed down to 2, and given one usually posts on every thread is that a giveaway?

Dog

[No Body]

crack-up:

Have you perhaps considered discussing your concerns with the individual?

Seems that would be infintely more appropriate than having a whinge here...

[RadioSaigon]

There was a time a few months ago I posted (under another now defunct pseudonym) on the topic of airmanship, courtesy and good-neighbourliness on your own home airfield and when visiting others... I got shot down majorly. Seems to me that this discussion has elements of both sides of the point I was trying to make, from both a "local" and a "visitors" point of view. Good manners, courtesy and consideration are qualities many of us seem prepared to demand from all around us, but few prepared to offer.

Take a step back boys, calm yourselves and next time you are confronted with a similar situation, one hopes you might conduct yourselves with more tact.

[kingRB]

sounds like you need a new hangar doc :p

[Capt Wally]

This is indeed a touchy subject & subject to all sorts of tempers & reactions. In defence of the Dr I know how he feels re being denied access. And to be fair such events need to be taken up in writing with the person/s concerned to make it very clear as to who has what rights here even if to have it documented if the worst happans, two planes 'touch'
It's a bit of an unwritten law on all airfields not to park & leave an A/C in front of a hanger esspecially if it's not known.

Airmanship as 'RS' mentioned here is the core reasoning behind these events. It's lacking a lot these days, perhaps it's simply not taught enough to pilots when they first start learning the airport etiquette, something that is learnt over time but needs to be shown in the first instance. Unfortunetly I come across parked A/C all the time that are not meant to be there (signs indicate this as well as tarmac makings). If I cannot speak to the person involved I place a stern but polite note under say the cabin access door reminding them not to leave an A/C unattended in such a place. The biggest bug bear I find though is someone running up an A/C right beside me when there's acre's of real estate about well away from my craft, now that's very poor airmanship.

Ok Dr do you have any leagl options? Advice from someone where you stand should you get hemmed in again & again?
There's always two sides to any story, fly neighbourly starts well b4 we get airborne!


CW

[Centaurus]

Airmanship as 'RS' mentioned here is the core reasoning behind these events. It's lacking a lot these days, perhaps it's simply not taught enough to pilots when they first start learning the airport etiquette

Read the draft CAAP on airmanship, CRM and TEM on the CASA website. It will floor you with its complexity and mumbo-jumbo phraseology. I didn't know "airmanship" was such a complicated subject.

[squawk6969]

Ladies and Gentleman,

Do not post here often however having also overheard some of this incident and witnessed some rather poor groundsmanship yet again by those who just park where they feel like it, I figure some balance is in order.

Before I go on, it was funny to watch that after the Beech Vtail was taken out and refueled a Navajo parked in the same offending area not long after. You would think it would have been fair to assume its not an isolated incident when it was the same company as the Islander that caused the incident in the first place. The fact they have a swag of 206's Islanders and Nav's that they can not accommodate, and is obviously a problem to them, it should not mean their problems be shoved onto others around the place. Funny enough talking to the maintenance operation that I share with the Beech owner, it may not be just him that has the problem!

As for the words it went something like this: "a loud whistle from the Beech owner, followed by hey, is that your islander?" and then "well shift the bloody thing"

Lucky it was not me they blocked in again!

I am at a loss as to why that constitutes rather rude and obnoxious behavior, seems like a fair request to me under the circumstances, and using the excuse a lady was in earshot, which I can not verify as I did not notice, sounds like crack-up may have been the offending Islander man and did not like being shown up in front of others. Funny what emotions may encourage one to post like he did.

Storm in a tea cup.....or just the guilty trying to petty point score if you ask me.

Night All,

SQ

[Capt Wally]

'Cent' which CaaP is it? There are numerous on their site none seem to make driect ref to airmanship but seeing as I'm old I might have simply missed it:ooh:.


Cw

[Flash_11]

Seems he has the entire airport in agreeance

Crack-up

Just for the record one of my pet hates is the use of the phrase in agreeance, it does not exist, it is agreement "Seems he has the entire airport in agreement"

[djpil]

Not long ago I asked a pilot if it was OK for him to leave the aeroplane where he'd parked it. His reply was "Sure, why not?".
"Did you see those 6 ft high words painted on the tarmac under your wing - KEEP CLEAR?"
"Nope."
He didn't seem to care that he was blocking aircraft from taxiing past the hangars.

I'm often accused of being too subtle. In future I must use that loud whistle approach followed by "hey you".

[Ralph the Bong]

Crack up,

I dont know you or Dr whatever, BUT...

I think, respectfully, that this is absolutely the wrong venue to air this sort of grievence.

For your own sake, I would suggest that you delete the whole thread as it demeans you, not neccessarily the other guy.

Furthermore, if you feel that his tone of voice/language etc was insulting or whatever, just yell louder than him and tell him #$%^ $%^ )(&^ and aslo $%^& then kick him in the ###$% and then give out a #$%^&*&^%$#@!@#$%^&^^%$#@ #$%^&*() not forgeting to &^$@@#^&^%^ with his sister.


This always works for me and they rarely do it again.:ok:

What you do with his battery charger is, well, up to you.

[Clearedtoreenter]

Good on ya Doc! About time some of these inconsiderate parkers got a blast - hangar etiquette is touchy subject but some folk just think they are immune. I'm afraid I've been guilty of similar obnoxious behaviour myself in a similar situation but we did manage to clear the air without binging it to this public forum - what a DH!

How about a strike for for Crack-up for using the forum to publically malign a known personality in this way?

[Jabawocky]

dj

I am with you, often keep my frustrations to myself till some peanut really oversteps the mark.

Then its full power http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0012.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-angel-smileys.php)

And http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_09.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-animal-smileys.php)

And if that does not work http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0038.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-party-smiles.php)

J:ok:

[Ovation]

Almost a case of "Tarmac Rage" perhaps?

Most Ppruners will assume crack up has fingered FTDK as the obnoxious person concerned - that was unnecessary.

From what I gather FTDK's been enduring inconsiderate treatment and being nice no longer works for him. He simply should not have to ask people to leave clear access to/from his hangar. If someone is continually and knowingly blocking him in/out, then being nice may no longer be an option.

Does crack up have a solution for FTDK's problem, or is he just trying to make an @rse of himself?:=

[Lasiorhinus]

Anyone having trouble with a regular, persistent offender blocking access to the hangar, should get one of these to tow your aircraft out.

http://www.newzeal.com/theme/bases/SP/2002/anton25.jpg

They can be fitted with bulldozer shovels, too.

[gassed budgie]

It must be catching. The missuss just stuck her head around the corner and told me I'm turning into a real d!ckhead!!! We all have bad days I suppose.

[PlankBlender]

Hey Dr, why not just complain in writing to airport management every time it happens? They'll have to forward the complaint to the operator, and it'll no doubt get tiresome to be at the receiving (or forwarding) end of such complaints, so at the least you'll annoy them back in a perfectly gentlemanly fashion -- which is the type that annoys the most, because there's nothing they can do against it, and it's in done in style, too. :cool:

In all likelihood, they'll just go elsewhere to have you off their back.. and it'll only cost you one click on the "send again" button every time :E

The steady drop hollows the stone, as an old Germanic idiom puts it :ok:

[Flopt]

Crackpot,

Airports have these big buildings called hangars,which have extremely big heavy doors.
PEOPLE LIKE TO BE ABLE TO OPEN THEM AND THEN ACCESS THE TARMAC.

I have personally always thought it was extremely rude , and the epitomy of bad airmanship to block access to these places and of course worse still to start a plane turn it in front of open doors a sand blast all the planes in side............not that I'm aware of this happening in this instance,but it does.

And CPLs should be setting an example, mere PPLs can occasionally be excused as some do not know any better. It reflects very badly on the Chief Pilot of an operation if he does not teach courtesy to other airport operators to his young proteges.

Funnily enough I observed the same operation, hindering the same elderly chappy in Dec 2007........so they have been quite discourteous for quite some time.........on that occasion he just grumbled a bit, ...he's usually quite chatty and ready for a yarn........

You obviously witnessed the final straw.........

Airmanship and manners go a long way.....

Flopt

[bentleg]

I dont why this thread exists. It is a personal attack. If you do have a problem take it up with the person directly. Dont winge here.

"praise in public" "reprimand in private"

[PlankBlender]

bentleg, it seems this thread has quickly turned into a support thread for the good Dr :D so nothing much for the mods to worry about methinks..

Just as t%#ts can't hide for long in real life, their personalities shine through in forum postings rather quickly, so the original poster seems to have been found out rather quickly and properly dealt with :D:D note he hasn't bothered to defend his position since his original posting, probably a wise move, as they say, if you're in a ditch, stop digging :eek:

Isn't an open forum something great?! Most bulls#&ters are exposed in a flash, when others who have a reputation for being honest and upstanding individuals, come forward with facts that shine a different light on events..

Keep the details coming, and I think it's time to name and shame the operation in question, so they can either sort out their parking mess or come forward with their own position.

[crack-up]

squawk6969

"As for the words it went something like this: "a loud whistle from the Beech owner, followed by hey, is that your islander?" and then "well shift the bloody thing""

So sorry to dsiappoint you, but I did not witness this conversation at all. What I did witness was a very rude man adjacent to the Islander, and close to where I was standing. If there was the conversation you mentioned, it wasn't then. I witnessed a rude person yelling at another for what I perceived at the time was quite trivial. I certainly would have dealt with it differently.

And no, I am not the offending Islander man (if there was one)......nor am I a MAN!

By the sound of the rest of the thead, there might be some history involved, but if so, that was not my point. Sounds like I am better off just having the quick visits I do..............and remaining away from hangar doors.

[Capt Wally]

23 posts in around a day since the original thread was promlugated, hmmm, just goes to show that such a subject is on a LOT of peoples minds.
Okay we have here someone who witnessed what they believe to be an ugly event, mentioned it (via these pages) & has perhaps seen that there's a lot more to this particular story than (& now we know 'she') was aware of. Like I & a few others have said airmanship is lacking big time in & around hangers.

So shall we all not become like 'crack-up'? I doubt it, being put out is a human trait that we have trouble suppressing as has been shown here.
In a nut shell, refrain from leaving an A/C unattended parked in front of ANY hanger. Airmanship starts right here:ok:

CW

[flysaucer1200]

I fully support you Crack-up.

The reason is, no one, on this earth deserves to be spoken to, like you quoted, and no one needs to be treated even more rudely too!

Unfortunately, not many reasons can justify the original, or first sentence of the conversation or argument, that the offending person had said. If the human race acted in this fashion, then little or a lot less, understanding, acceptance, forgiving, tolerance, even reasoning would exist between humans.

Unfortunately, the majority of names on this thread would react in an non-progressive way, or a non-constructive way when also, ‘whistled at‘, and told to ‘shift their bloody’ aircraft.

Fortunately, people are not generally intentional and do, make mistakes. I believe the islander pilot had made a mistake. Whether from ignorance, impatience, not paying attention, being unaware, impulsiveness, or to whichever the cause of the mistake. However, I could be wrong, and the plane was placed purposively. But, logically, I argue not.

Like myself, and the majority of people I know, the islander pilot would probably have objected to being spoken to in such a manner. And, filled with passion the V tailed pilot would have persisted his unmannered dialogue, as he obviously felt warranted. And, sadly, a short offensive and possibly repulsive quarrel took place. Ending with the inevitability of the islander being moved, at the cost of reputation for the pilot, and for the aviation industry

In most circumstances, including this one, kind mannered words, respect, appreciation, patience and a few other descriptions of morality, would have been the wiser choice. The result would have been the same, at a lesser cost. Obviously, if the V-tailed pilot felt more was involved, again using constructive ,mannered discourse, a better outcome would usually be achieved.

FS1200

[Jabawocky]

Flying saucer

you are quite correct, however I know having two teenagers, sometimes after repeating your requests for the 400th time not to leave your school bag in the doorway, you find yourself wanting to place said school bag in an orifice causing some discomfort to the teen concerned:uhoh:.

Its no secret I know the Vtail guy concerned and he is not normally one to get wound up, in fact he is rather composed, even with me doing x-wind landings in gusty conditions in the beloved Vtail :eek:. So for there to be a "shift your bloody aeroplane" I think there is far more to this than meets the eye.

Seems that the others posting here also agree!

J

[j3pipercub]

We're not talking teenagers here J! And please, no Gen Y comments

If you choose to start yelling or raising you voice to another aviator, however lacking you think they might be, you show yourself up to be the amatuer you really are.

Even after repeated requests, even after you feel like tearing your hair out, if you blow a fuse, it will be you who is the tyrant and the other guy/girl who is the victim.

j3

[sms777]

C'mon Doc!...
Do not keep us in the dark! We want to hear your side of the story :confused:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

No excuse for bad manners, but I can fully sympathise with those who consistantly find access blocked, or getting back from a long flight and finding some alien aeroplane tucked in for the night in the space you lease and pay stupid amounts of money for continuous access.

Usually the owner of the alian aeroplane is long gone and uncontactable as the register shows them as coming from Woop-Woop Station and of course they're not home, they've flown down to the Big Smoke for a couple of weeks...

You can't push 'em out of the way because that would be "unlawful interference". So they get to park free on the space we've paid for, and we have to pay to park somewhere else - if you can find somewhere within an hours walk of the office :mad:

Some visitors still need to realise the days of GAIT stickers are LONG gone and they don't have unrestricted access all areas....

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I previously posted this but removed it because I decided the thread didn't warrant a comment from me. I am persuaded to reverse that decision.

I have to say that in 35 years of flying I have NEVER parked an aeroplane infront of a hangar and left it unattended unless I had permission. It would never occur to me to do so.

The contents of the conversations held have been detailed above. Yes, the person who moved the Islander was a LAME, not the pilot who parked it there, but he worked for the same organisation. The subsequent excuse from the owner was pathetic! "We have a big turn-over in pilots". I assume that the organisation briefs their new pilots on various aspects of their operation. It would not be difficult to include, "When you park an aeroplane ask yourself if the grumpy Bonanza pilot will be able to get his aeroplane in or out of the hangar. If the answer is 'No', then park somewhere else".

Crack-up, the issue has been ongoing for at least 12 months. There is a lot of history - too much to detail here. Obnoxious behaviour on my part? I don't think so - more of a pointed discussion. You don't want to see me really "go off".

There is normally a C310 parked in the hangar with the Bonza - it has been absent on maintenance for some time. That aircraft can only be pulled out and put away with the use of a mini-tractor. It is not possible to maneuver that aircraft around the way I can with the Bonza. I suspect the owner of the C310's reaction to a similar situation may be even more pointed than mine.

Dr :8


"Geez, Tidles! You were quick enough to lock my fan club thread, how about you exercise the same reaction time with this one!

FOR THE RECORD

I pay a substantial amount of money each week to hangar my aircraft. For that I think it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to get my aircraft out and put it away without having to go looking for someone to move the aircraft that continually park across the front of the hanger in such manner as to prevent this.

I have no idea who "crack-up" is, but the organisation that operates the aircraft that are continually parked so as to prevent me accessing the hangar have been told by the hangar's owner's that they can use the space infront of the hangar to park their aircraft, as parking for GA aircraft at YBTL is a huge problem, BUT THEY ARE TO DO SO IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO ALLOW PEOPLE (INCLUDING MYSELF) WHO HAVE AIRCRAFT PARKED IN THAT HANGAR TO GET THEIR AIRCRAFT OUT AND TO PUT THEM AWAY, UNHINDERED.

I have had to ask on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS for aircraft to be moved so that I can either get my Bonanza out or put it away. On a number of occassions, when I have returned after dark, I have had to leave my aircraft out at some other location on the airfield because I could not put it away - and then had to return next morning to put my aircraft in the hangar. Likewise, on a number of occassions, I have had to delay my departure until I could get an aircraft moved.

This is not a "once-in-a-while" thing. I use that aeroplane regularly. For example, in the last week or so: I departed for Cape York Thursday the week before last - came back last Wednesday - departed for Warwick yesterday morning - came back this evening - am off again early Wednesday morning and back late that day - the same again on Friday.

Its kinda simple - DON"T BLOCK ACCESS TO THE HANGAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I'd suggest putting a sign up to that effect, but it would probably get the same amount of attention as our "no parking - authorised aircraft only" signs do.

:ugh:

Good luck with 'em, Dr :ok:

[sms777]

Thanks for clearing that up Doc :ok:

As an ex owner-operator of a large twin for over ten years and putting up with the same **** you can pretty much guess who's side i am on. There has been too many occasions when you arrive back home in the middle of night exhausted to find some bloody helicopter snoozing happily in front of the hangar door.
I love flying because being on the ground you are just surrounded by too many turkeys :(

Good Luck :ok:

[BrokenConrod]

Obnoxious behaviour ?? What else would you expect from this bloke!


http://www.fototime.com/26A37EAC3FF5352/standard.jpg

BC :}

[Jabawocky]

http://file044b.bebo.com/12/large/2008/09/22/06/4525920200a8946958699l.jpg

Funny the advert on the bottom.....Pest Management.

Could be taken eiether way:cool:

[404 Titan]

I get the impression some people haven’t been taught what airmanship really is. Parking your aircraft in front of a hanger without permission or as a sign directs is as thoughtless as parking someone in in a car parking lot. :ugh:

[Worrals in the wilds]

I remember a private helicopter filled with VIPs (in their own minds, anyway) parking on a reserved Flying Doctor aeromed parking spot, despite a med one FD kingair taxiing for the same space... a bit like parking in a wheelie zone.
If it ain't yours, don't park on it. Surely it's not that hard!
But we're all So Important these days :ugh:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Sorry folks,

I'm with the Dr on this one, parking so as to hinder others is bad airmanship, and if you knowingly do so and get yelled at or a kick in the a55, you deserve it.

Take your kick in the a55 like a man.

[gadude]

Someone mentioned that aviators shouldnt talk to eachoter like that.. what a load off dribble, since when are pilots a step above people who don't fly?
if you had a reserved parking spot in the car park and often people don't take notice one day sooner or later one would snap and tell the other person to :mad: off out off your parking space.

same goes for aircraft.

I am with DR on this one!!

next time just park one off them wheel locks on the gear lol.

If it was a private young student who made a mistake, fair enough.

all others should know better.
at least the person who got told off won't do it again I supose.

happy parking:ok:

[scrufflefish]

:ok: The Doc.
Given the history, if the organisation still can't do the right thing then I think FTDK is remarkably restrained.

[Kulwin Park]

To all those that reckon whinging should not be allowed here, then maybe don't contribute....
I am not out to whinge here at all, but to say that its good that someone has the balls to say what situations are going on out there that many of us do not hear about, that we can learn how to deal with it sensibly & professionaly but taking extracts from such threads that seem the correct way to handle like stuations.

Maybe the offending people might read this and act differently now, realising they look like fools when parking their aircraft. You always see people parking aircraft in stupid spots, left with park braes on, and aircraft locked, so can't move it - GRRRRR - It happens, & no contact number left on inside of windscreen!

Lets just keep the thread clean & useful whinging - maybe the airport management may read this and paint lines & no parking where the location is?? This is just a good place to post these concerns for othes to remember when parking aircraft, so whinge away - sensibly ;)

KP

[BPH63]

In view of the pattern of behavior of the obstructer and the doc's response I think he could have served up better! (http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2008/09/23/7155_local-news.html)

[sms777]

How about we start a " Shame on You " thread. Everytime someone spot an offending aircraft grab a camera, take a photo and post it here so everyone can see it. Make sure the rego is visible.
Just a thought....

:ok:

[Mach E Avelli]

Many moons ago I dealt with a similar situation at a boat ramp with 8 matches. Some moron blocked me in so that I had to unhitch a heavy 4 wheel trailer and push and shove for about 20 minutes to get my vehicle out.
No, I did not set fire to his rig. Merely undid each of his tyre valve covers on the 4 wheel trailer and 4wd tow vehicle and stuck the matches in the schraeder valves to deflate his tyres. So that he would realise that this was not mindless vandalism, I had the decency to leave a note on his windscreen pointing out the error of his ways. A great way to relieve ramp rage.

[ekoja]

I think we need a group hug.:p

Actually, Im all for road/rage, cos I drive a bus,(A Volvobus, not an Airbus) and there are some real dip****s out there on the road, who deserve all the rage they get.:rolleyes: Inconsiderate :mad:s.

Also I wondered if maybe there was a little T.P.S. As well. The Doc has a profile on here and maybe someone wants to put him down.
(T.P.S. Tall Poppy etc etc):E

[PlankBlender]

Mach E Avelli, I hope you are not suggesting anyone interferes with an aircraft?! :eek:

The penalties that this attracts are harsh for good reason, and I am sure we can all imagine what sort of incidents or accidents an unnoticed flat tyre could cause.

I would surely go to extreme lengths to identify and prosecute the offender if I only even had an inkling that anyone had laid hands on my aircraft :*

[Much Ado]

I think crack up gets the picture fellas:ok: