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View Full Version : UAE? Don't think so!


weido_salt
20th Sep 2008, 08:55
Dubai, anyone?

Sorry if it has been done to death on other threads but if it makes anyone think twice about visiting this God forsaken hole, it is worth my while.

Get a look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234786.stm)

(Offensive comments moderated)

Wouldn't go near the place again.

Back on ya camels.

viktor inox
20th Sep 2008, 09:08
No issues with a zero-tolerance illegal drugs policy. And anyway, if you're black and reasonably famous (such as Dallas Austin) you can visit Dubai with cocaine in your luggage and get out on a pardon.

The problem arises when medicines that are either freely available elsewhere or on prescription are banned - in that respect I agree, the UAE are pretty much in the dark ages.

Scooby Don't
20th Sep 2008, 10:34
So........cannabis is an illegal substance in the UAE. People with cannabis about their person are caught by the authorities at Dubai Airport. The aforesaid people, having broken the law of a country through which they are travelling, get arrested. What is the issue???? If you can't do the time, don't do the crime! :ugh::ugh::ugh:
As for the Swiss guy with poppy seeds from a bread roll, it's highly likely that that's the story put out by his family/lawyer/whatever. The Dubai customs authorities have made it quite plain that the cases brought up in the western press are either untrue or miss out some crucial salient points. Someone with a codeine-type prescription medicine, for example, will be asked to surrender it if they don't have a prescription with them, and possession of codeine will only become an issue if there is already another reason for their detention.
I work closely with about a half dozen Emiratis, and less closely with maybe another 30 including several women. They range from the highly-connected to the rank-and-file of Emirati society, and not one of them is a "retard" or anything of the sort. Not only did they insist that I join them for Iftar last night - they insisted that I get first crack at the sweet, sticky donuts. I'm willing to bet that those I consider friends now will still remember me in 30 years and greet me like a long lost brother.

Axerock
20th Sep 2008, 11:39
I cant understand why this article kept you speechless for seven months before you could put pen to paper.

Although I must confess I am also a bit slow to react - I am still getting over first reports of something called the bible. Sound like a bunch of long haired lefties - I predict it will be a passing fad - never catch on.

Anyway, looking further into current events, there is also a thing called the crusades, black death, and world wars for me to get worked up about as well.

parabellum
20th Sep 2008, 12:29
Weido_ Salt - Japan have laws nearly identical to the UAE regarding importation of drugs. If you have a prescription, usually pasted to the box/bottle or whatever, Doctors name and registered number on it etc. then it is no problem and they do understand that the original prescription issued by the Doctor usually stays with the Chemist unless it is a repeater. Never had any problems in either country, if you are looking for retards and trouble try Nigeria.

alemaobaiano
20th Sep 2008, 12:40
Nice attitude you've got there.

Retards ?? Why, because they have strict laws on drugs and actually enforce them? I lived there for many years and found Emiratis to be a very educated people, willing to share their ideas and culture....if you take the time to understand their point of view.

I wouldn't hesitate to return if the opportunity arose.

Alemaobaiano

airship
20th Sep 2008, 14:41
One empathises with the predicaments of all those "caught out" by the over-zealous interpretation of rules and laws in more remote parts of the globe.

But I wonder how many International travellers have been inconvenienced to greater or lesser degrees by application of 'over-zealous rules and laws' in the 1st World?

How many 'middle-eastern looking' travellers have been subjected to additional security checks? How many with 'foreign-sounding' names have been refused boarding or subjected to additional delays? How many people were not even on commercial flights but have nevertheless been transported by air to detention centres (both known and unknown)?

Perhaps, if you intend to travel to areas of the globe which have extremely strict interpretations on drugs or whatever, you ought to consider cleaning the soles of your shoes with a toothbrush before flying (please don't try to do this on board the aircraft though - it might be misinterpretated). I'm not sure that it's quite so straight-forward for folks travelling in the other direction. Much more difficult I imagine to change your name to John Smith from Mohammed Bin whatever. Or remembering to also dye your eyebrows and moustache to match the new (blond) hair colour. Why do people bother stopping off in Dubai anyway? Do they really expect to win the Rolls-Royce or Ferrari? And if you're there to buy the latest Sony digital camera tax-free, what's that really worth when you get back home, have a problem with it and find that your local Sony repair centre won't repair it under the normal warranty period?

Tower Ranger
20th Sep 2008, 17:20
Dubai is one of the most relaxed and easy going places I have ever been but obviously if you want to break the law in any country you have to accept the consequences and far be it from me to speculate but i wonder what the result we would get if we started a poll on how many of us believed that the guy in the picture has never smoked a joint.

I left a country where I was made to feel like a criminal passing through security on my way to work every day. Somewhere that i couldn`t take, soup, yoghurt pasta sauce or water to have with my lunch. I was once taken from my car to a holding room and questioned by Military Police after they found a can of beer under one of the front seats of my car. Oh but that was the Uk so it must be OK.

Weirdo Salt I may not be the sharpest tool in the box but even I know not to make a complete arse of myself by mouthing off about something I know nothing about.
Have a quiet word with yourself, now where did I leave my bloomin camel?

UniFoxOs
20th Sep 2008, 17:31
Much as I enjoyed flying with Emirates, we long since decided not to go to Dubai ever again. Maybe the stories about poppy seeds and codeine are exaggerated, maybe not, but the simple fact is that we would be committing an offence and I am not going to take any chances of being caught. Reason is that "er indoors" and I are not married, and being together in Dubai is against the law.

As some of you said - they are entitled to a zero tolerance policy, it is their country, and we can't go there as we don't comply with their laws.

Cheers
UFO

eastern wiseguy
20th Sep 2008, 17:36
even I know not to make a complete arse of myself



No No No ......must resist must resist.......lol Hi Mark!!;);)

Standard Noise
20th Sep 2008, 17:49
even I know not to make a complete arse of myself

.....again.
.....like I used to.
.....as I'm adept at doing.

(delete as appropriate)
:}

Atishoo
20th Sep 2008, 17:55
How can you generalise about a country like that. They are obviously not retards, even the taxi drivers get better paid than most in the UK.

I thought Dubai was a lovely , clean, polite place. We went on holiday for a week there during ramadam. We had a lovely time, the only rule they asked us to respect was not to eat walking down the street in day;light hours.

I felt this was the least we could do in their most religous time of the year. Not forgetting I was visiting their country.

The Dubai people couldnt do enough to make us feel welcome, and i think its a tad unfair, just because of someones personal experiences to judge all the Dubai people in the same way.

Yes they are very strict and some say dated on certain issues,,,,but bear in mind their crime rate is nothing and i think the UK government could take a leaf out of their book.

Who are we to slag anyone off, look at the state of our unlawful country right now, its a mess.

Tower Ranger
20th Sep 2008, 18:46
Hi Eastern n Standard,

Well i think the word "complete" in the sentence still leaves me a bit of scope!! Cheers guys !!

Lance Murdoch
20th Sep 2008, 20:48
:}Earlier this year I went on a two week business trip to Dubai and I must admit I enjoyed it and Im at this moment trying to engineer another trip out there (one has to make certain sacrfices for ones employer:O).

What struck me about the place is that I don't think I actually spoke to an Emirati once. I spoke to plenty of Britons, Indians, Pakistanis, Americans, Filipinos, Nepalis, South Africans and Frenchmen but not one Emirati.

Im open to be corrected on this point but the feeling I got is that there is a racial hierachy there. At the top are the Emiratis, who as far as I could see don't do much except drive around in large 4X4s and sit around drinking coffee (although not at the same time).

There is a middle class of technocrats and managers approx 40% are British and 40% are Indian with the remainder a mixture of Americans, Commonwealth types and Europeans who are tolerated because without them the locals couldnt run the country.

The actual work i.e. labouring, construction, taxi driving, cleaning and waiting is done by a working class composed mainly of Pakistanis, Nepali and Filipino guest workers who seem to be considered to be expendable.

When I first arrived there and was in the taxi to the hotel I was making conversation with the driver and innocently asked him if he was a a local man He said with a trace of bitterness in his voice 'you won't find an Emirati driving a taxi'.

In summary, what the people of Dubai have achieved in a short space of time is wonderful (and I really mean that, Im not being patronising) and belies the nonsense floating around in some quarters that the Middle East can not adapt to the modern world but I feel somewhat uncomfortable about the racial ? hierachy that seems to exist there.

con-pilot
20th Sep 2008, 22:49
What struck me about the place is that I don't think I actually spoke to an Emirati once. I spoke to plenty of Britons, Indians, Pakistanis, Americans, Filipinos, Nepalis, South Africans and Frenchmen but not one Emirati.

That has been my experience there as well Lance. The way I figure it, any place you can find readily available Scotch and beer ain't that bad of a place.

tinpis
20th Sep 2008, 22:52
In the Land of Raggypore ingest large tinctures of Dewars.

viktor inox
20th Sep 2008, 22:58
Quote
but I feel somewhat uncomfortable about the racial ? hierachy that seems to exist there.
Unquote

If you acquaint yourself with history you'll find that Arabs ran slave trading in Africa for centuries.

Lance Murdoch
20th Sep 2008, 23:14
Viktor, I can promise you that Im acquainted with history and well aware of the Arab involvement in African slavery and also the Royal Navys part in eradicating it which tends to be airbrushed out of history.

I dont want the thread to creep so I will reiterate that Im still uncomfortable with the racial hierachy in Dubai.

Rule3
20th Sep 2008, 23:24
tinpis me Ozmate, at my local UAE bottle shop, this weeks specials include Dewars 1 litre and 750ml for AUD 33, :D2 x 1 litre grouse AUD 33. :D2 slabs of Fosters for AUD 50. I know Ozmates don't drink :mad:Fosters. When I lived in Darwhine pre and post Tracey we drank Handles, greens, whites, reds, blues, black duck and barbed wire.:ok: and during the strike anything you could get.


Uae Hell Yeah!:ok:

Roger Sofarover
21st Sep 2008, 01:26
For all those jumping on the 'you shouldn't do drugs, do the crime serve the time band wagon' for these ridiculous prosecutions. Something you may wish to ponder on when you are sat banged up in the UAE for drugs wondering how it happened. It is estimated that over 75% of all bank notes in London have traces of cocaine on them. Also be very careful where you walk in the streets and on the way to the airport, who knows what you may tread on that could leave a trace of something nasty on your shoe. I don't agree with drugs but some of the prosecutions listed in the last 12 months are outrageous.

AMF
21st Sep 2008, 02:45
Lance Murdoch quote

The actual work i.e. labouring, construction, taxi driving, cleaning and waiting is done by a working class composed mainly of Pakistanis, Nepali and Filipino guest workers who seem to be considered to be expendable.

When I first arrived there and was in the taxi to the hotel I was making conversation with the driver and innocently asked him if he was a a local man He said with a trace of bitterness in his voice 'you won't find an Emirati driving a taxi'

In summary, what the people of Dubai have achieved in a short space of time is wonderful (and I really mean that, Im not being patronising) and belies the nonsense floating around in some quarters that the Middle East can not adapt to the modern world but I feel somewhat uncomfortable about the racial ? hierachy that seems to exist there.

Dubai tries to sell itself as "modern" or westernized, but it does indeed remain in the Dark Ages when it comes to Institutionalized racism and human rights. You are indeed, and unfortunately, correct; in Dubai, the manual laborers building the buildings and infrastructure and doing the "scut work" are all considered expendable in a very real way.

Indians also comprise a large part of the manual labor work force along with those you mentioned, and the Indian Government alone has figured that as many as 1000 Indian expat workers in Dubai per year die in work-related accidents at construction sites, etc. Of course the "official" numbers Dubai admits-to are much less and dealt with as a PR problem, not by rectifying the actual problem of job-related death. When these manual laborers aren't at work, their living conditions are atrocious, water-riots not unknown, and the wages set at slave-rates while costs go up, up, up.

Look past the Bizarrachitecture and sand-castle building, the has-been musicians playing for drunk Brit expats, and duty-free shopping. If you make an objective assessment and apply your own standards and not a relative one based on the worst places in the world to be born in, you'll not want to spend a tourism pound/euro/dollar there supporting the system/city that has been built, and continues to be, on the importation and exploitation of people so poor in their home countries the mantra "But they earn more than they could earn back home" is the standard..and the ONLY... way to rationalize the fact these human beings performing the manual labor are treated worse and valued less than the native camels.

Euros, and Brits especially, seem to have PR and Advertisment stardust in their eyes regarding Dubai. Maybe it's the duty-free shopping, or the sun shining more than 4 weeks a year, or the fact they can live there and hire (at slave wages) their very own Phillipino housekeeper they can brag to their friends back home about..all relative things themselves....I don't know, but scratch the surface of this nonsense and there are human beings dying at horrific rates and living in filthy conditions that in any Western country these companies would be shut down and the executives and foremen sent to prison. There are more laws, law enforcement, and concern by your average citizen or tourist from the UK etc for pet-abuse if you whack it on the nose with a rolled up newpaper if it doo doos on the rug back in London , than for human beings buried alive in a work-site cave-in just down the road in Dubai.

If it WEREN'T trying to sell itself as "modern" to the modern world, at least there wouldn't be the hypocricy of those running the place and those singing it's praises. Yemen, for instance, doesn't claim to be the cat's a$$ you should consider when planning your next vacation. Sudan isn't buying pages of flip-out ads in Conde Nast magazine entreating the outside world to come invest in Red Sea-side villas. Kuwaiti Airlines and Saudia don't paint their aircraft in pseudo-British Airways livery and stick a model airplane on a pylon at Heathrow.

Dubai is a place where ridiculous amounts of petro-dollar profits from the region and Russia are being dumped, among very few local natives. The existance there is relative...British/Euro expats...by and large unmarried and without children, working managerial and professional jobs... realize a higher standard of living relative to what they could back home owing to the high taxes and cost-of-living at home and cheap labor found in Dubai, not because they are earning fabulously high salaries.

Manual laborers are only there because they are recruited from what are some of the poorest countries on earth and have no recourse once they arrive in Dubai. There's nothing more than Public Relations lip-service...for the benefit of Westerners and the companies doing the recruiting... paid to overseeing the conditions these non-Western expats work under, but the exploitation remains unchanged even though the monetary means to change obviously exists, and has nothing to do with being at odds with the local religion, etc.

It's utterly devoid of social consience, and those investing in the place or spending tourist dollars there shed their own. Instead of deservedly boycotting it, they believe the BS, turn a blind eye (or possibly even believe in them themselves) to the intractable class structure and racism, and bought into it.

Unless your life revolves around shopping, or into fooling yourself you've reached a "higher station" (for those that believe in "stations") because you're able to hire some "help", or an out-of-work architect with cheesy ideas looking for someone to sell them to, there's really nothing wonderful about it.

Dubai is the most hypocritical, Polished Turd on the planet. .

weido_salt
21st Sep 2008, 03:23
AMF

That was one of the best posts I have read on this site in recent times.

It did not make pleasant reading but it was the truth as I have witnessed.

Thank you for taking the time out to write your post.

BlueDiamond
21st Sep 2008, 03:25
I can understand that they have the means to detect even the smallest amount of drugs but UniFoxOs post intrigues me ...

Reason is that "er indoors" and I are not married, and being together in Dubai is against the law.
How could they ever know whether people were married or not? Is a marriage certificate required for couples wishing to enter the country? :confused:

As others have said, IF these prosecutions have any basis in fact, then it is somewhat alarming. You can step in something and carry it in on your shoes, banknotes ... (especially the larger denomination ones, apparently) DO have traces of cocaine on them, and it is all too easy to carry over-the-counter medications without even thinking that they might be prohibited where you're going.

I'd like to think that BBC reporting was at least accurate to a degree but with the low standards evident these days, that's no longer certain. It would be interesting to find out if these prosecutions really did happen.

tinpis
21st Sep 2008, 04:13
Sounds horrid.:*
The sort of place in which tin would end up a screeching prisoner of the piss. :hmm:

Roger Sofarover
21st Sep 2008, 04:20
AMF

Great post and spot on.

Bluey

some of the prosecutions are Here (http://www.fairtrials.net/index.php/news/article/charity_issues_urgent_warning_to_all_travellers_to_uae_after _briton_impriso/) on the Fair Trials website

obgraham
21st Sep 2008, 07:04
AMF:

Right on the nose, pal. Very well put.

I'm surprised, though that your post was not removed today for being offensive. It seems that criticism of certain places is not to be tolerated.

BlueDiamond
21st Sep 2008, 07:17
Thanks for the link, Roger ... what this means then is that nobody can ever really be sure of their own "safety" with regard to drugs if they go to Dubai. you would have absolutely no idea if you were actually "clean" or not. Bad situation. Just wondering also about people who have no intention of travelling to Dubai but who are diverted there for some reason.

radeng
21st Sep 2008, 08:53
I'd really be in for it - with prescribed codeine amongst a slew of other prescribed drugs. Had a grilling when transiting BKK about insulin - how much did I have, how much did I take, when did I take it, what flight was I on, where was I going, why, was I coming back, what was my UK address, and they noted all this down complete with passport number. Didn't worry about all the other drugs...

So I'll be avoiding Dubai. Especially with mrs radeng, since she uses her maiden name!

tom775257
21st Sep 2008, 12:15
AMF is spot on of course...

To be fair when I did a stint at Etihad, although we were meant to get breathalysed (if memory serves) 25% of the time, not once did I have to. As aircrew we were waved through security; every time beeping through the metal detector, never searched (at AUH). One time a trainee went to search me after I 'beeped.' He was told off by his senior. Compared to the UK where they have issued such edicts as 'Well aircrew get annoyed at random shoe removal and X-ray scanning, so we will make them all remove their shoes (more than the pax), it was a nice relief.

Perhaps the strangest aspect of my stay was going out drinking in the hotel 'night clubs', using my Etihad ID to get a reduction on booze cost, obviously they take your staff number, just like when you buy duty free at the airport - extra discount if you give your staff number, duly noted of course...

As a westerner so long as you buy into the 'great visionary' Sheikh Mohammed's view on things, you're laughing all the way to the bank ...

parabellum
21st Sep 2008, 13:21
The reason why AMF's post was not removed may have something to do with the fact that it is his/her personal opinion and not the whole world and it's dog's opinion. Everything AMF describes happens but has also done so for the last fifty to a hundred, maybe more years to a greater or lesssr degree.
AMFs staement that: Dubai is the most hypocritical, Polished Turd on the planet.

Does suggest to me that AMF hasn't been too far away from home yet.

UniFoxOs
21st Sep 2008, 13:31
Bluey, I accept that they don't have a "wedding detector" like they have drug detectors, but our passports would be a bit of a give-away??

UFO

Ken Wells
21st Sep 2008, 20:50
Only Mugs take Drugs, serves them right!

AMF
22nd Sep 2008, 02:02
parabellum

Does suggest to me that AMF hasn't been too far away from home yet.

You're so very wrong again para.

galaxy flyer
22nd Sep 2008, 02:46
When the Iranians get the Bomb, Dubai will be in the sights as Ground Zero. World's largest glass Martini Glass. :eek:

GF

mocoman
22nd Sep 2008, 03:02
Everything AMF describes happens but has also done so for the last fifty to a hundred, maybe more years to a greater or lesssr degree.
AMFs staement that: Dubai is the most hypocritical, Polished Turd on the planet.

Does suggest to me that AMF hasn't been too far away from home yet.

So Parabellum......:E,

if Dubai is not guilty then what country IS the most hypocritcal, polished turd on the planet?

:confused:

PS:
nice post earlier AMF; I concur

airship
28th Apr 2009, 16:15
The BBC reports that Dubai property prices have fallen 41% during the first 3 months of 2009 alone (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8022578.stm)...?!

Does anyone recall all those winter 2008/09 PPRuNe banner ads for some property company thereabouts inviting us all 'to profitably invest over there'...?!

Most recently, I found out that only those foreigners who're actually employed in Dubai can really own property there. In the current global downturn, I understand that some companies are nevertheless keeping 'laid-off expatriates' on their books unofficially, if only to allow their ex-employees a 'grace period' during which they might sell-off their heavily-mortgaged abodes or else find another employer.

Unless I'm mistaken, as an expatriate worker, you can only own property in the Emirate whilst you're still employed by an Emirates-based company. Once you've lost your job, you're given 30 days to vacate (your abode and the Emirate)...?! :confused: :eek:

AcroChik
28th Apr 2009, 16:27
While the tide's high, no one reads the fine print.

When the tide goes out, you find out who's swimming naked.

flower
28th Apr 2009, 16:33
I'm travelling to Dubai tomorrow and I take prescription Codeine based drugs. I have a doctors letter and a copy of my prescription with me. Fingers crossed it will be enough :ooh:

dead_pan
28th Apr 2009, 17:36
When the tide goes out, you find out who's swimming naked.

..ah, the fine words of Mr Warren Buffet. He knows a thing or two about investing, however last I heard he was seen wallowing in the shallows in a mankini...

Anyone who brought property in Dubai was a complete mug. The place is full of chavs (some of the westerners are pretty rough too).

surely not
28th Apr 2009, 17:57
I am living and working in UAE, Abu Dhabi, and find the attitudes of some fellow ex pats to be ungracious at times. Actually they can be downright rude which is not a trait to be admired.

The country does have strict laws and some of them seem strange to a western mind, but, I can walk anywhere at any time of day and feel 100% safe. I don't worry if I cannot remember if the car was locked when I left it because I know it will still be there the next day, and the same with the house.

Most of the Emiratis I have met are well mannered and friendly.

Overall I am having a good time here and I am happy to stay longer. Not sure about Dubai as I rarely visit the place...............Abu Dhabi is much nicer :}

flower
28th Apr 2009, 18:07
Surely Not the person I am staying with on my holiday says exactly the same thing.
When in Rome do as the romans do, I just hope I have covered all corners with my medicine documentation :\

SMT Member
28th Apr 2009, 20:43
In the GDN today, a Dubai minister of whatever is refuting reports that Dubai has seen a 17% population decline in 2009. "They're not leaving, they're just on an extended vacation". Sure they are :yuk:

Ship's sinking, rats are fleeing. Good; I positively hate the place, a hatred born out of too many visits. Am in Bahrain now, and don't particularly like this place either, but it's still way better than Do-buy. Except during the week-ends when the habibi's flock over the causeway to wreck havoc on the roads, get shyte-faced and shag Asian prostitutes. The hipocracy in these nations is unbeliveable.

Romeo Oscar Golf
28th Apr 2009, 21:07
The hipocracy in these nations is unbeliveable


It's 22yrs since I left the Gulf, and clearly nothing has changed, although I do hope that Oman has not reached the depths of the others.

surely not
29th Apr 2009, 14:19
So is their hypocracy worse than that of Western nations?

I don't think the bible looks too favourably on adultery, murder, prostitution, drunkeness, thieving etc yet these can all be found in every western culture. Most Fridays in any UK town there are hoards of young men and women looking to get shagged and for free, yet our official religions all decry sex before marriage.

If you can't cut it in Bahrain or Dubai then run away home or are you being a hypocrite and just staying for the money and not following yr own values?

airship
29th Apr 2009, 14:26
The country does have strict laws and some of them seem strange to a western mind, but, I can walk anywhere at any time of day and feel 100% safe. I don't worry if I cannot remember if the car was locked when I left it because I know it will still be there the next day, and the same with the house. That's all very well surely not, but would you be allowed to stay on there (whether or not you could afford the mortgage or rent), claim unemployment / health benefits etc. if you ever lost your job (or just grew too old to work)...?! :}

Seems to me that Dubai is currently living on 'zero-interest' loans from Abu Dhabi. Who are not all that keen on the somewhat 'over-liberal' attitiudes Dubai allows for in that particular Emirate.

Regardless, you can be quite certain that if we were comparing the phenomenom of Dubai with say, the UK, there can be no real comparison.

To start with, 'the foreign-origin UK population with long-term rights to live and work in UK' are a fraction of the 80% or more that populate and contribute to Dubai's (previous) prosperity. Dubai has no 'long-term obligations' towards their expatriate workers, whether they're originally from Pakistan, Nepal, India or the UK, EU, the USA etc.

One imagines that the original Pharoahs who built all those great pyramids (the world's tallest building anyone?) also employed dubious means to accomplish their great works without resorting to enrolling natural Egyptians. Perhaps one day, the world will accept that those countries who nevertheless paid an 'internationally-competitive' market wage at the time were still somehow guilty of 'slave labour'. That is to say, paying wages which initially look quite generous today, but do not take into account the longer-term costs of looking after future health and pension costs in their home-countries...?!

Unless Dubai, as an Arab Emirate, someday completely turns their back on their 'Arabness', and Emiratees also begin to fill the ranks of everyday architects, construction workers, hotel employees etc., their dream will turn into nightmare. For example, I'd offer the USA and President Obama today. Perhaps only 50 years ago or less, someone like the President Obama would have been lynched, assassinated or whatever with few immediate repercussions.

Meanwhile, invest in Dubai (whether or not as a result of a PPRuNe banner ad) and take your chances...?! :} :uhoh:

surely not
29th Apr 2009, 14:51
Well if it all goes pete tong then I will be on my way home, or working elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that imho.

Reading some of the posts on other threads I rather think that many on here would like UK, Europe and the North Americas to adopt similar policies!!

Not sure I want to return to UK and be a pensioner, they don't seem to get treated too well and if the papers are to be believed (surely they print the truth don't they??:}) they are also the target of violence by ne'er do wells if you live in a large town.

Yup it is hot (around 47 degs c here today) and dusty and very young and brash in some ways, but then it is all very, very, new to wealth and hasn't had centuries to learn how to adapt to the new circumstances. It isn't just the local population that is new to wealth, many of the expats are new to the wealth they can make here, and some of them don't handle it well either.

I think there are many worse places in this world to live.

bnt
29th Apr 2009, 14:56
Could we drop this "your country is worse than mine" nonsense, please? Dubai is hardly representative of anything, not even itself.

I've been there twice, staying with an engineer friend of mine, but I'm under no illusions that I saw the "real Dubai". I (mostly) went from air-conditioned villa, via air-conditioned car, to air-conditioned shopping malls. I arrived on the first trip expecting it to be strictly Islamic ... then I saw the drinks store in the baggage hall at the airport and had a rethink, after picking up a few bottles for my friends and myself.

I too have concerns about the legal and human rights situations there, but what do people expect from a hereditary monarchy? By definition, a monarch is not accountable to anyone unless he or she chooses to be. So, while Dubai is relatively "open", that is the result of a deliberate policy, and you ought to guess that they're going to be selective about what they are open to, or not. They will take your money and/or expertise, but they do not feel obliged to take you as a person, warts and all. For example, every foreigner living there is obliged to take regular HIV tests, and if found to be HIV+, you are O-U-T. You have no rights in that regard.

I don't drive, so I didn't seriously consider moving there at the times I visited, though with the public transport situation improving now, it's not inconceivable. That may sound strange, considering what I know about the place and the way it is run, but I think I could deal with it, and take the money while holding my end up in ethical terms.

SMT Member
29th Apr 2009, 15:56
surely not

Is the hypocracy here worse than in Europe? You bet your arse it bleedin' well is. Last time I checked, no European nation used a book about a fairy tale skymonster as the basis for their laws, literally I mean. Neither do I recall very many European nations banning the sale and consumption of alcohol to subscribers of aforementioned skymonster, only to turn a blind eye when the obvious happens.

I do know of a few nations in Europe where prostituion is forbidden, but guess what, they actually hunt for both those offering and those buying the services; a concept utterly alien to Bar-ain and Do-buy except for a couple of times a year when they hit a particularly holy streak (see, there's the hypocracy again). Like they did a couple of weeks ago prior to the F1 in Bar-ain. But, you've guessed it, the doors are open again and it's business as usual. Hypocratic? You tell me habibi.

My research also tells me that all people in Europe are offered the same rights, much to the consternation of some, whilst we all know that the "lower classes" in the ME are treated like dirt and have no legal way of seeking justice. That might be more disgusting than hypocratical though, but does illustrate how utterly sick the societies in this place are.

I've also checked various drinking habits in Europe, and whilst the UK has, sadly, had some success in exporting their maladjusted citizens (I belive the correct term is chavs) for pish-ups in various European cities, I don't half expect them to act much different when they're back home - which is rather a lot different from your average oh-so-holy Kuwaiti or Saudi going on jollies in Do-buy or Bar-ain. Besides, last time I checked the consumption of alcohol was legal in every single European nation. We don't have to potter over to the neighbours for a drink.

You may fail to see the difference, if so I can only deduce that you've been in the sandbox for too long and is suffering from expat-blindness. Don't worry, it's curable. Just get the flock out of there, and in short order you'll have your sense of normality restored.

And I shall be running away come Friday, thank you very much. As luck would have it I'm only ever here on short business trips. If I had my way, I would never set foot in this sandbox but, alas, I only go where the boss sends me.

Romeo Oscar Golf
29th Apr 2009, 16:21
Surely not said

I don't think the bible looks too favorably on adultery, murder, prostitution, drunkenness, thieving etc yet these can all be found in every western culture. Most Fridays in any UK town there are hoards of young men and women looking to get shagged and for free, yet our official religions all decry sex before marriage.



I believe you are confusing the law of the land with the religion(s) of the land. What you say above is probably true but except for "thieving" and "murder" none of the above is, on its own, against UK laws. The accusation of hypocrisy against the Gulf States is a considerably more complex subject, but as you live there you will (surely) understand what is being said?

Those of us who choose to live and work in the Gulf should know, accept and follow the laws of the Land (however "odd" they may seem). Those who merely travel through or holiday there should, for their own protection, be aware of the rules and law, but are free to comment as they wish.

That, by and large, is what has been posted isn't it?

flower
7th May 2009, 08:29
I had a superb time in Dubai on holidays staying with Expats. It is a land of make believe but there is much there that makes you hanker for the old UK of some decades ago not the mess that is the UK today.
Cleanliness, politeness, safety wow what a difference to dirty, rude and sometimes unsafe UK. Yes their rules are tight and woe betide you should you break them but for the majority of us law abiding folks it has a lot going for it.
It was exceptionally hot in the mid 40s most days I was there ( no good for the hair or make up ;) )and the mosquitos had a good old nibble but there is no question that I will go back to visit, maybe give it a couple of years but if you can stand the heat it's an ideal holiday destination in the winter months.

Roger Sofarover
7th May 2009, 08:41
A friend of mine who is an emirate has just been back visiting his parents who are nationals living in Dubai. He says the situation is now very bad. Up to 40 cars a day are being abandoned at the airport by expats and investors who are leaving the place behind, including all of their debt. He told me an assurance had to be issued by the government to all Dubai locals who are starting to panic a bit, because in many cases, a local must act as guarantor for loans for expats, that they should not worry as the debt from the fleeing expats will not be passed on to them. I loved the place and came within a gnats do dah of buying a condo off plan as an investment:eek: Thank god I thought it through and didn't.

Desert Diner
7th May 2009, 10:11
Is the hypocracy here worse than in Europe? You bet your arse it bleedin' well is. Last time I checked, no European nation used a book about a fairy tale skymonster as the basis for their laws, literally I mean. Neither do I recall very many European nations banning the sale and consumption of alcohol to subscribers of aforementioned skymonster, only to turn a blind eye when the obvious happens.


Let's put this into perspective. This is the 1490's in the Hijjra calendar.

Care to guess what Europe was like in the 1490's? 1500's? 1600's?

parabellum
7th May 2009, 13:07
One imagines that the original Pharaohs who built all those great pyramids (the world's tallest building anyone?) also employed dubious means to accomplish their great works without resorting to enrolling natural Egyptians.


Not so airship. Saw a great programme on the National Geographic channel about the pyramids and there construction. Archaeologists have found the remains of several townships around the pyramids where the workers lived and they were a happy, well fed and paid bunch who had medical and dental facilities etc. (so the archaeologists say), from what they have found. No mass graves for slaves and none of the trappings of slavery you might expect to find, like tethers, chains and so on, also very little evidence of any military presence either. The belief is that the builders were lower echelon Egyptians who moved there to do the job of building, nothing too sinister at all.

Roger Sofarover
7th May 2009, 13:12
Parabellum has it. The workforce was also boosted by Egyptian farm workers for about 3 months a year when the annual inundation of the Nile occurred and they couldn't farm.

larssnowpharter
7th May 2009, 15:21
I do hope that Oman has not reached the depths of the others.


Indeed it has not and of all the GCC countries is one of the best if not THE best. No coincidence that the nationals have to work for their bread and that the country itself has a long, long history of overseas contact.

I have been working, living or passing through most of the GCC countries for the last - goodness - 40 years plus. Have seen huge changes except, possibly, in Yemen. I am currently in Qatar.

Dubai? Simply do not like it. Overcrowded, terrible traffic and expensive. My fear is that Doha is going the same way.

I agree that there are injustices in this part of the World judged by the western yardstick. The expat workers in construction, the maids, the gardeners etc etc. But, do you know what? Many of them are employed by Westerners!

Ken Wells
7th May 2009, 15:28
You used to be able to swim in the Gulf in Dubai, now it's so polluted you just go through the motions!:eek:

Lance Murdoch
7th May 2009, 18:19
Ive recently returned from my biannual business trip to Dubai. It is noticeably quieter this time. If one wishes to get from the hotel in Deira to Jebel Ali for 9am you no longer have to set off before you got home the previous night which is definetly an improvement.

It is plain that the property bubble has burst and aint going to reinflate any time soon (I can think of another country in a similar situation), that said there are some solid foundations to the economy, many companies use the area as their middle eastern base so I don't think that the U.A.E. is doomed but there will be a certain amount of contraction before things pick up again.

Main thing I got from there was a nasty case of flu which completely knocked me out for two days this week, still not over it. Bloody camel flu thats what it is.:}

airship
7th May 2009, 20:53
parabellum, I'd so much like to be able to go along with your vision (of life during the construction of the pyramids) of that era. Even in our modern days, assisted by modern machinery and subject to numerous health & safety rules and obligations, the transport, lifting, site-preparation and assembly of large man-made structures (whether or not they're assembled using 20 tonne slabs of rough-hewn ancient rock or modern pre-fabricated reinforced concrete versions thereof) invariably involve serious casualties and fatalaties. Just consider how many lost their lives building the Panama Canal for example. I've nothing against paleontologists and archaeologists. Simply that at their average speed, it usually requires the equivalent of several generations of them before any clear picture begins to emerge. It's almost certainly fanciful to declare that the construction of the pyramids were an entirely happy, even 'family affair', where children might have accompanied their parent onto the building site every morning after a hearty breakfast of porridge oats etc.

So far as Dubai is concerned, you can be certain that they predominantly have their own citizen's interests at heart. Everyone else are temporary, unimportant, there to be blown about by the Khamsin or equivalent, like the sand that the dunes are composed of. Dubai may well become a ghost-town at some stage in the future. But it will be one where even the lowliest camel is lodged in a luxury apartment with a view of the Burj Al Arab?! Why should anyone really worry about what will happen in 20, 30, 50 or even 100 years' time anyway? In another 2,000 years' time perhaps, tourists will also once again visit Dubai to admire the ancient tall edifices and wonder. The Emiratees themselves will tend small stalls selling tourists trinkets and cheap reproductions of artefacts "made in USA". A tiny, if nevertheless useful small supplement to their incomes perhaps. For a people and a 'rich way of life' which over many millennia consisted of little more than owning sufficient camels, and goats, having sustainable water resources together with many wives and offspring for happiness...?! airship (but call me Lawrence...) :ok::uhoh:

parabellum
8th May 2009, 01:56
OK airship, I see you are prepared to dismiss any evidence that does not suit your perception of events. No point in making another Hamster Wheel out of this so I withdraw and hope you do get to see the National Geographic film for yourself, before too long. Cheers.