Processor upgrade

[DB6]

What's involved in upgrading the processor? I have a pentium1 200 at the moment and want to keep the same motherboard as it's got lots of RAM in it (EDO). I assume it can't be as easy as just pulling it out and bunging in a pentium 6 million. Any advice?

[FL310]

Also you want to hear on xmas that your thoughts will come true.....sorry, no way!
The max you will be able to upgrade to is a 266 MHz (consult motherboard manual).
Pentium II and III have a different structure and architecture of data processing.
To upgrade to a "clean" P II or III you need to change the board.
There is, however, a solution for older motherboards available, even a 486 can be upgraded to P II status and as far as I know it will be a 333 MHz celeron type processor.
You can accomplish this with a standard PCI (also as ISA available) add-on card with the new CPU fitted on it.
Upgrade is done in minutes and, surprise - surprise, it works.
Please remember what I said before, it is not a clean upgrade, I did not hear about problems with software etc. but, as it is always with "backdoor" solutions, there is also no gurantee of all programs running without trouble.

Good luck

[spannersatcx]

As you have a socket 7 type mob it is possible to fit AMD K6-2 3dnow processors I think they can go up to around 450mhz, you would need to check with MOB maker that it supports it, jumpers voltage etc, and you may require a BIOS upgrade.

[DB6]

Thanks for the advice, chaps. Unfortunately it was manufactured by AST and their support in the UK seems to be a bit crap. When I asked them they said 'We don't touch that upgrade - it goes wrong too often'. I will investigate both options. One other thing...am I right in supposing that the current generation of motherboards can't use EDO RAM (72-pin SIMMs)?
Cheers DB6

[FL310]

You are not quite right. 99% of todays motherboards do not accept the "old" EDO ram.
But, if you want to buy a 100 MHz board, you need the corresponding ram...
To confuse you even more, todays boards support (normally) the 66 and the 100 MHz CPUs. If you fit the 66 MHz rams with a 66 MHz based CPU and you want to upgrade to lets say a 500 MHz CPU, you will need to replace the rams as well.....

In other words, board speed 100 MHz or greater, rams of 100 MHz speed and you are set, at least til next xmas.....

[Ironguts]

Sorry DB6, But AST are reknown for their own unique Motherboards and Computer cases. I know of no Socket-7 ( Pentium 200 ) to Socket-370 ( Celeron CPU ) adaptor. If your monitor, Keyboard and mouse are OK, get a quote on a "Box Only" upgrade from a local computer shop which build's it own systems - you are in a better position later when it comes to upgrading as you are using standard industry parts.

Y2K - Bah Humbug!!

[DB6]

After some investigation it would seem that I am hamstrung by this poxy AST setup. Does anyone therefore have a recommendation for a motherboard/processor combination to choose assuming I want to keep my EIDE hard & floppy drives, PCI video card and EIDE/ATAPI CDROM (I am assuming my EDO RAM is a goner, unless you know different?). Also any pointers for suppliers around Dundee/Forfar?
Cheers DB6

[FL310]

Beside the EDO ram you will be able to use all the other bits and pieces....and you need a new cabinet.
Just have a look for a decent midi tower which will fit under your desk.
Watch the 3.5" and 5.25" slots, these days you can easily run out of them.
If you still have 5.25" floppies (you may want to stop these now), the CD drive, the DVD drive and perhaps a backup system may use one 5.25" slot.
On the 3.5" slot section you need a floppy and at least two harddrive slots (you can use a 5.25 slot with brackets instead).
Watch the power unit, insist on a 250 W at least.
CPU, well, depends what you want to do with the machine. More in games ---> go for the AMD, it will not be beaten.
If you are more in programming or office or graphics ---> the Intel is a must.
Watch for the slots on the motherboard. There are plenty around which have not enough ISA slots or just 2 PCI slots with one still shared on the AGP slot.
I am not from your area, but some chaps have posted some addresses earlier already.
Good luck

---------------------------------
Next upgrade is my laundry machine, will put a silencer around it.... :)

[ExSimGuy]

DB6,

Ironguts & FL310 pretty much have it. I have upgraded many times - now there's nothing left of the original! I have always found that the "upgrade a generatiuon" modifications (adapters on the motherboard, plug-ins have been almost as pricey as judicious buying of new main board, processor and RAM. With the added concerns of comaptibility I've always voted for "clean sweep". With the prices of main boards, RAM (still fairly cheap) and a <<moderate>> processor, it shouldn't cost too much.

I wonder what your applications are? I still run a Pentium 133 at home for a bit of MS Word, Excel, CorelDraw and email/internet, and still happy with that (could be faster but not a real problem) and I have a Pentium II 450 in the office (BIG Corel's and bitmap graphics - still not realy fast enough!!) Modern games really do stress the processor though!

Not sure I go with the generalisation that "Intel for business, AMD for games" is quite true, but the route to take is definitely to change board processor and RAM. If you go for a "moderate" processor, try to ensure that you can swap for something a generation higher at later date (though the processor manufacturers seem intent on blocking that route with a different board requirement for every new processor!)

Asus and Gigabyte boards are what we use here - really compatible and flexible

Good luck!!

----------------------------------------
In the middle of upgrading two ponds in the garden

[clownfish]

I read the comment here that the AMD K6-2 would slide into a normal socket-7 motherboard. I wonder if anyone who has done this can comment on its success. 2 upgrades ago I went for the K6-2-350 but was told it would only be compatible with a super-socket 7 motherboard,so without even trying I bought the new m/b. I am now using the AMD Athlon 500 with mixed results but cannot recommend the K6-2/3 processors more highly.

[ExSimGuy]

Clownfish,

What's the "mixed results" from the Athlon? I thought it got good reviews in most of the trade press - are there any caveats??

------------------
Flight Sims, very expensive toys - but real fun to play with!

[Ironguts]

Re my previous post about no special adaptor to get Celeron ( Socket 370 ) CPU's in Socket 7 M/boards - Have just got the Dec 99 issue of PC Answers ( UK mag ).

A company called "Evergreen Technologies" have PCI board which can upgrade you to a Celereon 433Mhz & 64Mb RAM cost is UK 289 pounds! - Pro's : easy upgrade, Con's: dosn't use your existing memory, old CPU must be left in ( your system still actually boots up using it! ), compatibility prob's ( ie: it just might work with your m/board/BIOS )

Their verdict: new m/board, CPU, RAM is cheaper.

[DB6]

I saw the Evergreen thing in PC World but after consideration tend to agree that going the whole hog will be a better bet. At least I can then put the old one back in if it all goes tits up. Evergreen have a site at www.evertech.co.uk (http://www.evertech.co.uk) if anyone's interested, with downloadable compatibility software. One further question - where can you get brackets and rails etc. for mounting internal drives?
Cheers DB6

[spannersatcx]

Beware of Gigabyte and AGP slot problems!!!!

[clownfish]

Exsimguy, I am guessing that my problems (which aren't huge) are related to the fact that most software wasn't written with the specific functions of the Athlon in mind. Likewise the Athlon doesn't seem to always handle code that was intended for Intel systems. Shouldn't be any problems you might think, but compared with the stability I had with my previous AMD K62-350 I am not so sure. BTW I would still recommend the Athlon but would not recommend any of the current motherboards that support it.

[Stan Sted]

All you guys sound real experts so how can I upgrade my system to run FlightSim 2000 at a decent frames rate.

At the moment I get about 2.5 to 8 frames per second at half screen and with zero scenery, so it is hopeless for VFR flying. In fact it is hopeless full stop!!!

Here's the set up:
ATX tower case
(ATX) TX97 motherboard with 512K cache
AMD K6 200MHz processor
32MB SDRAM upgraded to 96MB
4.3GB Ultra DMA 33 Hard disk drive
3DI Expert@Play PCI 4MB

I'd like to do it on the cheap, so any suggestions would be very welcome and I will pay you back with a pint or three at Ash Bash 2000 (at Stansted on May 20) or the London PPRuNe gathering on Wednesday (Jan 12) at the Old Bank of England pub, corner of Fleet Street and Chancery Lane (see aircrew notices for details of both events)

cheers SS

[FL310]

SS, your major problem is obviously the graphics card. With 4 MB ram you are not (!) able to get a frame rate you are interested in. Can you upgrade to at least 8 MB or, even better, 16 MB.
See that your harddrive is defragmented very regularly as it is (compared to the requirements these days) also not the biggest one.
To make it worse, your CPU is a bit slow to handle all the fancy stuff in "real" time.

Now that I have not left any good hair on your system, please get me right about my words.
You have a real nice system which will suit you for a long time to come but, if you really need all the speed and frame ratios others are talking about, well, than you need to think about a serious upgrade.

In 1982 Bill Gates said, after the AT-machine, the then 80286 with 1 MB ram was born, that this would be enough memory for all solutions and software to come. Well, he was wrong and he works hard to show this to us all. By the way, the said machine was running with 8 MHz speed.....

[spannersatcx]

I've just upgraded my graphics card to 32mb Creative256 GeForce annihilator. The idea of this card is that it uses it's own processor to offload the main CPU. I have P11 350 with 128mb ram getting around 20-30 fps it does slow occasionally when loading in scenery http://www.fltsim.com have some faq/tips on FS2000 and how to optomise, it's really a case of trial and error. I think 350 CPU is really a minimum. Geforce costs around £160 from dabs, beware of compatibility with Gigabyte motherboards though.

[This message has been edited by spannersatcx (edited 10 January 2000).]