Don't you just hate these people??

[quartermilltopo]

I hope you will take the time to read this 'blog' - and then keep your eyes peeled for the time you have this little t*rd on your flight. Make sure he has a really lovely trip (down the steps, I mean)
I still give you my undivided attention, although I know most of the briefings by heart!

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/duncanwells/blog/2008/09/09/plane_daft_safety_briefing)

(It seems to work if you just click on the underlined Whoops! directly above)

[toolowtoofast]

Take one hook. Tie it to a line, add a sinker.

Viola!

[Paula]

He seems to know where the fuel tanks are, but he doesn't know that there´s slides on most type of aircrafts. :hmm:

[Dolley]

Well, he's obviously an ignorant :mad: and has no :mad: clue.
Unfortunately a public voice though, and I can't wait to offload the first smart:mad: who's trying to argue himself into trouble :ugh:

[urok]

Absolutley delighted that he doesn't give a rats, however who is he to decide that other people around him don't care... This behaviour is rude and inconsiderate of the punters around, and most certainly the flightys that are simply doing their job.

All in all, his sentiments are correct, the information is rarely required, however I'd love to be a fly on his wall the one time that it is!

And also, its a CAA requirement to perform the demo, and what to cover. The airlines wouldn't be volunteering to do this unless they had to! Good research jack ar#e...

[Skipness One Echo]

He has a point let's be honest. In the real world, the only time a landing on water has been attempted by a large airliner was the hijacked Ethiopian B767 that smashed apart on impact. He is correct in saying that hitting water at any speed is very much like hitting concrete. Should my 747 ever find itself gently afloat, then I will put my life jacket on, however 747 flying into a hundred pieces at speed is more likely.
It's also noticeable that cabin crew, like the Police and certain other profession have a "them and us" mentality. The man actually makes a real point in a humourous manner. I always make a point to know where the nearest exit is and where my life jacket is stowed. However I don't have a realistic expectation that I will be delighted that it saves my life. Honestly.

If you want to see "good research" on lifejackets then google the tape of the Ethiopian B767 going in at slow speed into a controlled water landing.......

I can't wait to offload the first smart who's trying to argue himself into trouble

Also, seeking confrontation with those that disagree with you in order to punish them has no place in a grown up workplace.

[gadgetman]

With regards to the Ethiopian 767, the fact that the pilots were wrestling with the hijackers at the time probably had a lot to do with one wing dipping and causing the catastrophic results. Even then, some people survived the impact, some of those made it out, whereas others inflated their life jacket INSIDE the aircraft and were unable to get to the exits of the submerging aircraft and drowned. (If I was utterly cynical I'd suggest that these were the people who ignored the part of the safety brief that tells you to inflate the life jacket only after leaving the aircraft.)

Other aircraft HAVE ditched with better success rates: Pan Am and Aeroflot from memory, and a few others.

Aircraft overrunning the runway and ending up in water is a far more likely scenario than actually ditching into the middle of the ocean, and there have been several cases of people drowning in such conditions where a life jacket may have made the difference.

Of course it's unlikely you'll ever need a life jacket and it's much more fun to make sneery comments as a couple of hapless hosties try and demonstrate the procedures that they know all to well are unlikely to be needed, but a safety briefing is a mandated part of commercial flight and deliberately "having loud conversations with an imaginary friend" is a puerile response.

[tartare]

In fact there is a chance of surviving a controlled ditching in water.
A 747 in landing configuration touches down at a survivable speed for something of that size... I think around 160 knots... issues such as height and direction of swell come into play, as does temperature of water, weather etc.
Many people survived the ditching referred to earlier.

[quartermilltopo]

An interesting cross-section of views and opinions; all of which are valid, depending on your point of view. I have observed turkeys (such as the man who featured in the original post - Duncan??) exactly like him, and sometimes I feel like remonstrating with them - but I'm the one who would be locked up for confronting the idiot. I still despise their ilk!!

[FlyboyUK]

There was a case of an RAF Nimrod (ok not civillian but the airframe is based on the comet airliner) which sucessfully ditched off the coast of scotland a few years back. I remember seeing the pictures of it floating on the surface.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Not exactly ditchings, but quite a few went off the end of the runway at Kai Tak back in the day and ended up in the drink....

[Abusing_the_sky]

Is this guy for real???
Would love to have him in my flight.:E


Don't know why but for some reason i just remembered a scene in Snakes on Crack (or was it Snakes on A Plane) where some fella fed a huge snake someone's little dog and then the fella got eaten by the snake...
Fictional? Yes. Would i feel sorry if it wasn't and it happened to this guy? No.

[Dolley]

I can't wait to offload the first smart who's trying to argue himself into trouble Also, seeking confrontation with those that disagree with you in order to punish them has no place in a grown up workplace.You are right. I wasn't in a good place when I posted it, and it was over the top, exaggerated, and unprofessional. However, it doesn't change that I do sometimes feel like it...which does not mean that I actually would do if it can be avoided.

About the Ethiopian 767: Quite a few more people would have survived the incident if they would have adhered to 'Do not inflate your lifejacket inside the aircraft.'.

I admit, surviving a ditching is a miracle, but some of those guys did. More could have. The off chance of the information giving me a 0.0001% higher chance to survive will make me pay attention every time. But that's just me, of course.

[I Just Want To Fly]

Is that photo of "Duncan" the actual guy? If it is, then I'm gonna print it out and put it in my PA book! So I'll never forget his face.

[apaddyinuk]

Sheesh....some of the comments here!!!

Life jackets are of course a very neccesarry part of our equipment. A ditching may not be as black and white as some of you portray (ahem skipness one echo ahem ahem). What about the China Airlines 747 that went off the end of the runway at Kai Tak? It was one of the few evacuations that actually successfully got passengers into rafts!

Two years ago I was in a situation where we had a very real chance of going off the end of the runway into water in the Carib. I was also stationed at doors one so myself and my SCCM were both aware that chances our part of the aircraft would be submerged. Life jackets were out, passengers were shown how to wear them EXACTLY as per your mans article AND STILL THE GOT IT WRONG!!!!

Also, the Ethiopian incident actually had survivors. Many of those who did not survive were those who inflated their life jackets before the impact. It is believed many more may have survived had they listened to the demo more carefully.

Now I could go into his jargon about the 02 masks but to be honest Id rather not, because I would not mind if he ashpyxiated himself next time he is in a depressurisation over high terrain!

Apols for the spelling mistakes, cant get my spell check to work!

[Lauderdale]

He has a point let's be honest.


Hmmmm 753 posts? One question for you:

Do you or would you therefore advocate that all SEP equipment should be stripped from all commercial aircraft? (apart from the crews off course :E)

A simple yes or no would be just fine........

:ugh:

[Flag Track]

Given the stressful nature of a ditching I would imagine it would take a lot of self-discipline not to inflate a lifejacket, plus someone popping theirs would lead to pax copying in panic. One only has to look at other threads on this forum about Pax behaviour!

[Lauderdale]

A lot of people who perish in accidents don't even manage to unfasten their seatbelt as they are in a total and blind panic.

However.......many do survive, thanks to the courage, training and procedures of flight and cabin crew alike. Anyone who makes a mockery of this, trivialises this or displays a sense of forgone conclusion (i.e. whats the point I will die anyway) is an insult to the great peeps in aviation (not just in the air - but very much on the ground as well - I mean, what's the point in having a fire brigade at an aerodrome everyone will have died anyway right? :rolleyes: (....)) who are there to save your life one day (and not to take insults, sexual harassement, dirty nappies etc like many in society seem to think these days)!

:ok:

[apaddyinuk]

The impact of a crash may not neccassarily kill you but the hesitation of the passenger sitting beside you might!

[the bald eagle]

Does anyone know when that **** wrote this article was he smoking something illegal at the time?
If he was i want it:E

[Michael SWS]

If this thread proves anything it is simply that cabin crew appear to have no sense of humour. (But then we SLF knew that, didn't we?)

He forgot to mention the ludicrous instruction on British Airways that the lifejacket should be tied in a double bow at the side. (That always gets a huge laugh when Pam Ann (http://www.britishairwaysandpamann.com/) mentions it in her stand-up routine. As does her impression of a survivor trying to attract attention with that little whistle over the sound of the rescue helicopter and the crashing seas).

I always pay close attention to the safety briefing every time I fly, just in case it does me any good in the event of an emergency. But the chances are that it will do no good whatsoever, and everyone knows it.

[B Fraser]

When your torso is found (abdomen and spine having been severed by a 50G impact and a single point harness), you still need to be identified. I suspect the real purpose of the brace position is to leave your dental records intact.

As an errant youth, I used to draw on the safety card. I thought the addition of sharks fins to the picture of the floating airliner was quite funny.

Tin hat on.....

[Rwy in Sight]

B Fraser,

At least you left the card in the aircraft and you made it more realistic.

Rwy in Sight

[Juud]

Micheal SWS, if your post proves anything, it's that SOME passengers switch off whatever passes for a functional brain when they board an airliner. (but then we cabin crew knew that. :rolleyes: )

Read this (http://www.pprune.org/4388872-post80.html) and see if you can get at least a modicum of knowledge past your (probably fear induced) irrational and grossly erroneous preconceived notions.

[Juzz51]

Juud,

Thanks for supplying that link, brilliant post. Well done! :D

[Duncan Wells]

In response to Just Good Friends and others, I seem to have incurred your wrath and that is not good. It was certainly not my intention to make you cross. Apart from our differences in view point on a number of issues, I included something which I suspect is at the heart of your upset. In a sense this was gratuitous, unnecessary and indeed untrue. Airline staff have always been brilliant in an emergency, most often heroic and certainly selfless in their actions, to suggest anything less was uncharitable and untrue. I have amended the article accordingly. You may not like what I say, you may think I am an idiot and many other unprintable things but I am always polite. I understand that you are incensed and hope that the amended version will show that your opinion is valued even if my view may not match up to everything you hold dear. That said, I amended the article but it has not yet been republished. I will investigate. If you would like me to include it on this site I will be happy to do so. You may however wish to leave it be.

[Juud]

Since it´s sunday and appropriate ;) let´s have some Luke:

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


Bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let's eat and celebrate!

Mr Wells, ignorance redeemed is a mighty fine sight. :ok:

Please do post the improved article here as well as on your bl*g.

[Abusing_the_sky]

Seriously, you naughty ones, did you NOT read Juud's posts?????? What on earth is wrong with you???
Get off my aircraft. NOW

[TightSlot]

Well, that's got to be a first...

Hats off to Mr. Wells please, for having the courage to post, and to act.

And Juud has found God and had a good meal - what a week!

[Simonta]

Mr Wells

Fine indeed that you posted, and defended yourself. However, whether we agree or not is actually not the question. The question is simply one of common sense.

I encourage you to read this link and consider the following facts:

http://www.pprune.org/4388872-post80.html

1. Most disasters with fatalities also include survivors.
2. Most serious incidents do not include fatalities
3. Your odds of being a survivor in a serious incident are far greater than that of being a fatality.
4. The odds of surviving increase with knowledge of what to do and when to do it.
5. If you flew 24x7x365, on average, it would be 700 and something years before you were involved in a serious incident, let alone one with fatalities.

There can be no other conclusion than taking careful note of safety procedures is required, expected, courteous and the only logical thing to do.

Regards

Simon

[Kerosine]

Unless I'm missing something I cannot find the original post by this Duncan chap :confused:

[Little_Red_Hat]

The articl referred to was linked on an external site. Seems that article has been removed, possibly pending editing as noted by 'Duncan'.

Glad to see not all journalists think they are above the facts! Would like to see what the article says now though...

[Dolley]

Mr Wells,

I am impressed that you not just took on the feedback but even amended your article. Unfortunately the edited version has yet to be found but I am looking forward to reading it. I will do so with all the manners I have been brought up with, and I hope in return you will listen to the next safety briefing when you are on an aircraft. Because even if you disagree with it's contents, that is certainly the polite thing to do.
A bit more genuine politeness would do this world some good, and would help a lot of people who disagree to still get on with each other. Quite often being polite is nothing else then showing the other party respect. Anyway, I'm starting to drift off.

Thanks for acknowledging us, and the work we are doing.

[Duncan Wells]

I just wanted to let you know that I edited the article and submitted it to the Telegraph. And it's disappeared. They are looking for it. If they can't find it I will have to edit it again. So please hang on if you would. It will turn up, although whether it should or not given the hoohaa is another matter.