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future.boeing.cpt
18th Sep 2008, 10:11
What, exactly, would happen if you were on an IFR flight from aerodrome A to aerodrome B, out of radar reception, with your 45 minutes holding reserve time, and during your NDB/DME approach the NDB station failed before attaining VMC (no alternative nav-aids), and your fuel situation stopped you from an alternative (e.g. climb to a given route MSA and head to another a/d).
What else could you do except climb to the 25nm general MSA?

Farrell
18th Sep 2008, 10:22
Now, here we have a perfect opportunity for the investigators on the Perm thread to give their advice.
Here's your chance rather then to find out what happened, to prevent an accident from happening.

Any takers?

Just to add: You are not allowed to use Google Maps because funnily enough, they aren't available up there.

future.boeing.cpt
18th Sep 2008, 10:48
Oh, i'm meaning an approach in class G.
yes i was thinking that was a possibility, if you were at 6nm could you make a left/right turn and intercept an imaginary "5nm arc" to descend below cloud? Although you wouldn't be able to use MDA, because you would be outside +/- 5degrees of your inbound track.

henry crun
18th Sep 2008, 10:50

Pretend the NDB is working, fly the approach down to MDA, and hope for the best.

future.boeing.cpt
18th Sep 2008, 10:56
Pretend the NDB is working, fly the approach down to MDA, and hope for the best.

I suppose, if you know the weather's well above minima, then maybe?

and: don't turn 90 degrees to the right thinking it's buggered off out there haha :}

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
18th Sep 2008, 12:14
Put it into a hover and descend slowly?

rhythm method
18th Sep 2008, 12:27
Well first of all, in the planning stage, you will have considered that your minima must be at or above that required for an approach of one degree less than that available (from 1hr before to 1hr after your planned arrival time), so you will be planning for a visual approach in this instance. Your fuel required will be sufficient to make an approach, carry out a go-around and still have sufficient to go to your alternate aerodrome. If you are saying that you have hung around using up all your alternate fuel and 'committed' to this aerodrome, and then the NDB has failed, I would recommend rolling inverted, and pushing forward to descend above MSA. Climb above cloud and using star alignment, continue your approach, but make sure to set yourself an ABSOLUTE minimum descent altitude that you will not go below. I find 5 feet is quite acceptable in commercial environments. :cool:

Checkboard
18th Sep 2008, 12:32
What, exactly, would happen if you were on an IFR flight from aerodrome A to aerodrome B, out of radar reception, with your 45 minutes holding reserve time, and during your NDB/DME approach the NDB station failed before attaining VMC (no alternative nav-aids), and your fuel situation stopped you from an alternative ...

What I would expect to happen is for me to lose my job for not planning enough fuel when flying to an airport with a single nav aid! :ugh:

ProM
18th Sep 2008, 13:24
Purchase GPS Nav software for my mobile phone when I did make it to the ground?

Loose rivets
18th Sep 2008, 17:16
Luxury!!!!

Young Wipper-Snappers...couln't find their way home along a white line these days.

We used to use VDF approaches in the good old days. Man's way of flying that were.

In my day we had to plan for all of the above, plus and engine on fire, a passenger trying to get our girlie's knickers orf and a mad axeman breaking into the cockpit. And that were only a base check.;)

Arm out the window
19th Sep 2008, 06:23
Use the force, young Luke!