Jet 2

[neilly]

Any news about how JET 2 is faring. Is it likely to go under in the next few weeks? Do you think it is time to look for other flights Edinburgh Pisa.
Any advice most appreciated.
Neilly

[40KTSOFFOG]

If you had read The Times business section last Friday you would have read that they have posted a very good profit for the season and very well placed to weather the storm.

[Leezyjet]

I believe they have also been putting adverts in the local press advising that they are in a good situation too to boost customer confidence.

:\

[CAT1 REVERSION]

All is good at Jet2. We have a different business model to those who have suffered so far in that we own all our aircraft bar 1.

Yes it is tough times, yes everyone is feeling the pinch, but we have a pretty focused leader whom I believe is taking us in the right direction.

This year was all about consolidation, next year route growth, the following year new aircraft - apparently!

Put it this way - I'm glad I'm flying Jet2's aircraft over many other airlines. Don't worry about your flights, we are doing just fine:ok:

[Sagey]

£30million interim profit. Final results expected to be better than predictions.

Dart Group avoids turbulence with Jet2.com - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/article4744247.ece)

[mackey]

Nuff said!!

M.:ok:

[ACCMan]

A word of warning.....

Jet2.com are effectivly now a low-cost charter airline. Gone are Gatwick, Amsterdam and Berlin; in are Palma, Alicante and Malaga ..... which are great in the summer but make very little money in the winter. Remember charter airlines have to make a s:mad:t load of money in the summer to cover the winter losses.

If the MAN programme is anything to go by, they have very little flying this winter and a lot of spare metal lying around. Dan Air once owned all their aircraft too. I wonder how much the Fowler Welch Cooltrain/Ambient division helps the plc stats.

[Spikedog]

ACCMan - p*ss off with your scaremongering and get a life.

Jet2 are doing just fine.

[Wycombe]

.....funny, I thought lots of the 733's came from Ansett Australia?

[CornishFlyer]

They also do a lot of cargo though especially at EMA, something easyJet and Ryanair don't do. At night there's usually at least 3 a/c sat on the cargo ramps which will obviously generate them a fair amount of income

[Rainboe]

One idiot question really meaning 'is xxx going to go tits up? Is my £45 ticket safe?', and 9 answers rushing in to reassure? Instead of abuse! Fellahs! Give it the answer it deserves! We will have everyone who buys a ticket here asking if they will be OK. This is R & N! Have some self respect! Send this numpty the answer he/she deserves!

[ACCMan]

ACCMan - p*ss off with your scaremongering and get a life.

Jet2 are doing just fine.

What a mature responce Spikedog ...... but I'm sure you'll make the left hand seat one day.

What I posted was fact ..... and a question.

I've spent a many a year working for charter airlines (from DA onwards) and know how the business models work. I now work very closely with Jet2 and wish them all the success; my concern is with such a light winter programme, can they keep their heads above water.

[Viking101]

Obviously lots of jet2 pilots here :D

I wish you guys all the best, but please grow up with some of your answers... No need to have attitude here :=

[Rainboe]

Has it occured to anybody how crassly insensitive it is to poke one's nose into what is laughingly supposed to be a 'professional pilots forum' and ask such a blunt, ignorant question? A suitable response would be to say 'stick your stupid £45 ticket where the sun don't shine and if you are so seriously worried, why not walk it instead?' Why are you bending over backward to reassure such a total twerp?

[runway30]

Why don't you guys realise that your passengers pay your wages and neither have your knowledge of airlines or the ability to read a balance sheet. They pay for their flight months in advance and trust that their airline will still be around when they come to fly. It wouldn't do any harm to explain politely to them why your airline is financially sound because nobody else is going to! Perhaps you don't think that keeping the passengers happy and coming back to pay your wages again in the future is your responsibility?

[Jinkster]

If the boss wanted to park his aeroplane up in the desert for a months and months, it wouldnt cost him a penny.

Excel Flights and Futura flights all adding to the list - more charter work.

neilly, if you are booking to Pisa in the next few weeks, you won't have a problem. If you are worried keep an eye on the share price for Dartgroup Ltd :ok:

[marchino61]

@rainboe - glad to see your responses are as reasoned, mature and "professional" as ever.

Could you please reveal which airline you work for in order that I may avoid it?

[dustyprops]

ACCman,

It's not really fair to start putting the frightners up people whilst we are in such fragile times. Jet2 employ a fair few people and i'm sure the last thing any of them, or anyone else for that matter, wants to read is colleague's in the industry speculating as to whether they will make it through the winter or not.

I am sure Jet2 are doing just fine and long may that continue as far as i'm concerned.:ok:

[CAT1 REVERSION]

Has it occured to anybody how crassly insensitive it is to poke one's nose into what is laughingly supposed to be a 'professional pilots forum' and ask such a blunt, ignorant question? A suitable response would be to say 'stick your stupid £45 ticket where the sun don't shine and if you are so seriously worried, why not walk it instead?' Why are you bending over backward to reassure such a total twerp?


Rainboe,

I fully agree with you, this is a network for Professional Pilots. Until the mods stop the general public from reading and writing threads on here we have to accept that they will.

With that said, we at Jet2 in my opinion bend over backwards to be a 'friendly' Airline, hence my original, hopefully, informative reply to one of our frequent customers. As already stated, it is the customers who ultimately pay our wages, and if public confidence is lost through scaremongering (Mr.O'L:mad:), the more fickle folk book elsewhere!


ACC Man,

Yes we have a lucrative Royal Mail Contract, yes we have diversified into Charter and even Ad-Hoc Charter which again is very lucrative for us, so again in my opinion and many others including our Management Team (see our results and profits compared to failed Airlines!) we are doing just fine. I don't beleive you can compare our fluid, inivative business model to that of a failed DanAir's........Ridiculous:ugh:

[Rainboe]

Whilst one doesn't doubt that Jet2 is doing fine, how should one, as a professional in this industry, answer such a query if your company is not doing fine then? All very well to give a reassuring answer for a company doing well, so how will the sages here answer if your company is not so well then? So better not to answer any such query.

'Pay with a credit card and keep your fingers crossed!' is the only answer that should be given!

Now Moderators- is this a 'Professional Pilots Forum' or is it not? What on earth is a query like this being left up in Rumours and News for? Can you please run this place with a bit of control and discipline!

[Right Way Up]

is this a 'Professional Pilots Forum' or is it not?

I think you know that answer already.

Would the last to leave pls turn the lights off.........

[Rainboe]

I'm not happy when I look at the number of my posts that 'disappear', presumably because they are considered 'controversial' but rubbish and nonsensical threads like this and others in Rumours and news are left to run! I know I may not be popular with the moderators, but this is not a beauty contest! I would like to know why I get erased and inconsequentialities like this survive! It's all done on a whim.

Oh lookout...here comes a deletion!

[lurkio]

This thread should be consigned to the appropriate place, the bin.
Someone asks a stupid, and yes it is a stupid question. Unless the MD or accountants for the airline are here then there is probably nobody able to answer the question (and they sure as hell won't be telling you this stuff). It would be like going on a bankers chat site and asking is it safe to deposit my salary this month. Next come the defenders who are rightly proud of who they work for. Then comes the (presumably) SLF who thinks that because he has paid bu&&er all for a ticket (and of course pays our wages) that entitles him to the companies innermost secrets, tech explanations and reasons for delays (sh1t happens) as well as deciding when an aircraft is safe to fly or not. Then a few people get a bit annoyed (understandable). If the original poster has brain cell 1 in there he should have put it in the right place (Questions maybe - the clue is in the title) but maybe should have just stayed out of here altogether. I don't like everything that goes on here but it was set up for pilots and enthusiasts which is why I joined.
If you don't like it go set up your own pprune (pathetic pax rumours etc).
Now please get this out of R&N and let Rainboe get back to his breakfast.
Me, I'm waiting to be deleted and sent to the sin bin with Rainboe.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

ACC Man - You obviously haven't learnt much from your past experiences, nor have you looked properly at what Jet2 are offering for the winter. As far as we can see we have had a great summer and have made made lots of money:ok:. Perhaps the reason for this is that we've dropped the likes of Berlin, Paris and Gatwick which didn't make much and have concentrated on the core routes which do:D. The winter sees a large reduction in our offerings and consists of none of the routes which you have mentioned from MAN (ALC/AGP etc) precisely because they weren't going to be worthwhile operating. This leaves a thin program admittedly, but I'm confident that those in the know have calculated that it'll cost less to park the aircraft than to have it fly with low load factors. We will also be doing a fair number of charters through the winter again, you can be sure of that.

Wycombe - You're quite correct, some of our 733's did come from Ansett, but why's that funny:confused:?

Rainboe - Whilst I agree with your sentiments on this one, we have to protect ourselves in these times, it'd be all too easy to ignore the question, but then the doom-mongers would be onto it saying that there was no confidence in the company, then the press would get a whiff of it and it'd be out of control in no time. I agree with you though, this should not have been allowed to get this far in R&N:=.

Neilly - as for your original question, nobody can be sure of "making it" at the mo (even Ryanair:yuk:), but I think the majority at Jet2 feel comfortable that we can weather this storm and come out the other side.

[Rainboe]

Johnny, I can understand your motivation for wanting to protect the good name of jet2, but what if the question had been phrased for an airline you worked for that was looking a bit shaky? Are we to take it that reassuring answers=OK, no answers=dodgy? I'm very glad you feel Jet2 is in an OK position, but you really must recognise this stupid question is going to be posed for other shaky airlines. therefore, if you want to keep confidence in the industry and not cause a 'run on the bank' you must answer to all such questions: 'pay with a credit card and keep your fingers crossed!'. Period. Can't you see that? Have you noticed for financial institutions, the only answer given to such questions is 'keep your deposits at any one institution below £35,000'!' Nobody says 'XXXX bank is beginning to look a bit queer! Watch out!' I am most concerned for the safety of my overdraft, so I watch the health of my bank!

I don't want to shake your world, but ongoing trading conditions are not connected with ability to survive. XL were working well and busy- it was the end of summer with a big rush to get home. But what brought XL down was giant debt and refinancing. It can hit even a company trading very well, and quite frankly the banks are not going to refinance anyone, so any airline can be in a flash in a precarious position.

This is not the place to come to for a bloody financial report!

[Farrell]

Send this numpty the answer he/she deserves!

What I find amusing Rainboe, is that none of the other posters actually knew how to give the question the answer it deserved.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Rainboe]

Indeed it does Farrell. Shades of 'we're OK (I think), so I'll answer. The others CGTH! (fingers crossed)'

Strangely enough, a private list has been circulating in the industry of airlines 'looking a bit lean'. Of the 4 names on it (apart from XL), an airline mentioned in this thread has been on it. What are we to make of that? If you really want to know what is going on, there are 2 places that have all the gossip:
*your engineering department (they know everything)
*the mobile sandwich bar in Manor Royal

[Flyit Pointit Sortit]

The best place for Rumours and News are the caterers. For our company, those are the contracts that are negotiated first!

[Wycombe]

Johnny, was just being ironic about the "all your aircraft came from Dan-Air" statement, as I know that was not the case.

Good luck to all at Jet2 :ok:

[L337]

Whilst the site is nominally for "Professional Pilots", it is also a business. A business owned by Internetbrands. (http://www.internetbrands.com/ib)

They need to turn a profit, and to confine the site to only the professional pilot would reduce the revenue stream. Money as ever talks. As with all media, it is the owner not the consumer that drives the agenda. PPRuNe is not here for the professional pilot, It is here to make a profit for the owners.

[JW411]

Which is no doubt why we have already filled up two pages of pprune as a result of a daft question asked by a suspected teuchter.

[Celtic Pilot]

neilly, no question is a stupid question if you dont know the answer, so fair play if you dont want to book flights and loose your money i say!!! Be crap if someone was to book flights and loose their money!!!

Rainboe...--- after xl went bust,, i heard a man on the radio that spent £2,000 on a holiday with them and didnt even get to go in an interview.. Now you picture if that was you. how would you feel. Sick and sour comes to mind, at least that would be what i would feel. So if that man was to hear you goin on about someone looking to protect their flight payment by learning the financial situation of the company and then getting critized by people, well if he found you..lol... ... Well thats just plain Insensitive... Think you should sit and imagine the tables were turned on you before you reply anymore comments about the question asked.. Everyone has a right to join forums and express their comments the matter what professional they are in. You could argue that ATC people are not Professional Pilots so why are they here???...

its obviously not that stupid if the mods havn't removed it by now!!!!

[Capot]

The point is that what can kill an airline dead is loss of confidence = advance bookings fall off = cash flow not what it was = creditors and suppliers start asking for payment upfront = bank starts calling in long term lending = administrators called in on what was a healthy business until the whispers were planted.

One very good way to start the ball rolling is a question like the one at the top of this thread.

My instinctive reaction to that kind of question, on this and other websites, is to wonder on which airline's behalf it has been placed.

MoL does exactly the same thing for exactly the same purpose, although publicly and openly, when he announces that "a lot of airlines are going to fail" or words to that effect, and hints at who they might be. And the press fall for it. And it succeeds....look at the list of victims.

It's all designed to kill by whisper. And that's why when questions like the one posed are placed on pprune, the best thing is to ignore them totally.

Rant over.

[skysod]

On the way in to work (in uniform) yesterday at manchester, called in at WH Smith at the airport to buy a newspaper and was stopped by a middle aged lady who asked me "Do you know if Jet2 are in financial trouble?"

I enquired as to why she posed the question, and she replied that she was due to fly with them in a couple of weeks time and had heared a rumour!

I informed her that I did not work for Jet2 and had no idea about their financial position, but as far as I knew they were as safe as any other airline in the present economic climate.

My point is that it is totally irresponsible to start or spread these unfounded rumours, as at the moment, confidence means everything, and the lack of it could lead to the demise of an otherwise perfectly viable airline.

[captplaystation]

Can see no good reason why it wasn't immediately moved to " Passengers and SLF".
Many much more relevant / topical threads get dumped within minutes in " Airlines and Routes" before you have the chance to even see them. Why this one has been allowed to stay on the headline forum is beyond me. Seems we are becoming a bit too tabloid, anything sensationalist, no matter how much tosh or not ,stays.
Bit sad to lower ourself to the level of "The Sun" really, and not even a P3 to compensate.

[Jet2]

The winter sees a large reduction in our offerings and consists of none of the routes which you have mentioned from MAN (ALC/AGP etc) precisely because they weren't going to be worthwhile operating.

Not worthwhile??? Johnny, it was worthwhile purely for the 4 hour turnaround in AGP. Lunch in the sun in Torremolinos in the midst of the British winter :p

As for the thread subject :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk: Get out more! Now what's this I hear about BA, Emirates and American going bust .......... oooh best go and start a new post :oh:

[RVR800]

So to summarise

They are making a big profit
There is now increased work with the sad loss of XL etc
Oil has fallen in Price

So

No problem....:rolleyes:

[Re-Heat]

Now Moderators- is this a 'Professional Pilots Forum' or is it not? What on earth is a query like this being left up in Rumours and News for? Can you please run this place with a bit of control and discipline!
I am sure that if you make Danny an offer to buy his website, he will be happy to give it to you and let you decide who he has on here.

As it is, it is up to him, and not you.

You cannot complain about it being called Rumours and News, and throw a hissy fit when a normal punter asks (what is for them) a reasonable question.

Taste aside, the answer to such questions is a mature response, not a stream of expletives.

[Celtic Pilot]

2nd that Re-Heat!!!!!

[Capot]

My point is that it is totally irresponsible to start or spread these unfounded rumours,You cannot complain about it being called Rumours and News, and throw a hissy fit when a normal punter asks (what is for them) a reasonable question.It's almost certainly NOT a normal punter asking a question like that, it's almost certainly someone trying to start a damaging rumour, or to feed fuel to one that's already being started, in order to damage Jet 2 to the advantage of another business. Or just a disgruntled person with a grudge aganist the company.

"Irresponsible" implies reckless stupidity. If the question isn't what it appears to be, it is neither reckless nor stupid. It's a deliberate attempt to damage Jet2.

[Celtic Pilot]

I agree here with Gobonastick.....

Bad times when WALL STREET now looks at PPRuNe for stock exhange traits and advice...lol...

I can hardly see how someone askin a question on this forum will make an big enough airline go BUST...

[no sponsor]

Ryanair opening a base in Edinburgh. O'Leary stated that he wishes to put Jet2 out of business....

[Celtic Pilot]

where and when did He state this????

seems like a pretty focused statement to come out with at unpresidented times like the current climate!!!!

This must be a case of bad journalism... No self repecting business man would but his :mad:lls between the vice by coming out with a staement like that at economic times like these..

oh forgot o'leary isnt a self repecting business man.....

[buzz boy]

O leary needs to be concentrating on his own back yard! Poor fuel hedging, poor yields and customer bad press that will be damaging no matter how much he mocks about "if i want loyalty i will buy a dog".

I somehow very much doubt o leary has made this statement.


What the hell is this rediculous thread still doing here?

[baps]

30 million profit. Is that Jet2 or Dart group? The trucking business could be making a fortune while the airline loses money. Not saying that is happening but we don't actually know that how much money the airline is making do we?

[Re-Heat]

It's almost certainly NOT a normal punter asking a question like that
Rubbish. Post XL, solvency of companies with whom people have spent money is the top of many travellers' minds.

The correct, and only response to the question should have been to (a) point out Dart's profits, and (b) the sizable and stable mail contract.

Further comment was neither required nor necessary.

I shall desist from further comment on this thread and suggest other with any level of maturity do the same.

[cunningplanmylord]

Lets put this in context.

Jet2 have made money over the last summer but it really would be hard for them not too. They have a totally captive audience in Leeds with scarcely any competition at all.

They run some of the worst maintained a/c in the business but in doing so save money, ask some of the 757 crews about the condition of the a/c this summer.

They are without a shadow of a doubt one of the worst companies to work for, poorly remunerated with some of the industry's most unethical work pratices ( second only to ryanair) goverened from the top down by an unpleasant megalomaniac.s Talk at the moment is just to temporarily promote F/O to skippers for a few months over the summer then demote them back, what a bunch of c@?~s.

If ryanair wade into leeds they will be out on their ear or at least leeds scheduled ops will be. They have been fortunate with ad hoc charter work and a mail contract but thats it. Other outstations have already been shrinking and will current trading conditions crews will be held even more to ransom.

There are some good guys and girls in this outfit but a huge amount of deadwood and sheer incompetence. Same old equation peanuts = monkeys, I hope a good airline buys them out.

[Smudger]

Well, Cunning, or whatever your name is, I have never seen such opinionated b******t on this website. As a Jet2 757 Captain I can assure you that all your assumptions are completely false. I, however, can only assume that you are yet another Jet2 wannabe that didn't make the grade with us. That is the impression you give by your vitriolic and totally unfounded post. Our fleet is very well maintained, and I take exception to your assumption that our aircraft are poorly maintained just because they are old. I take exception to your assumption that some of our personnel are incompetent. You clearly just hate to see a group of professionals doing well in a tough environment. Time will show that we are one of the strongest outfits around. Not many outsiders want to give us our due (although there are some and thank you). I hope that you will soon eat your words or just disappear from the site entirely. I, for one, will not miss you.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

To respond to the OP, book with your credit card and at least if they are the next to go you can claim your money back.

[Artie Fufkin]

Cunning.. I think you have exposed yourself by saying;

have been fortunate with ad hoc charter work and a mail contract most impartial observers can only summise that if they are getting return work on ad-hoc charters then they must be doing them well. That's the way it works.

What is it that you have against Jet2? You're not a certain irritating little Irishman are you?

[no sponsor]

I rather suspect that old cunning did work for Jet2 on the 757 - how you doing there fella?

Not all of what he says is boll0cks.

[cunningplanmylord]

"I can assure you that all your assumptions are completely false"

"Our fleet is very well maintained"

Smudger, what a load of s'#te. I have absolutely no axe to grind with jet2 at all. I'm guessing this is the standard drivel u would expect to hear from a management pilot at jet2. It is laughable u would stand up and defend this shower.

No sponsor hope ur well

[neilly]

Thanks for all your responses. Blimey I wasnt expecting such a vitriolic response Rainboe. In my 'profession', Psychiatry, such outbursts tend to indicate a rather fragile, insecure ego. Fortunately mine is intact and I found your ramblings rather amusing. To get so steamed up over an innocent question.... what a sad little man. There's always one in every forum.
To the rest of you, I was unaware that this forum was limited to 'Professional' pilots, it certainly wasnt stated anywhere when I registered. In fact I was pointed here by one of your fellow forumites. Sorry if you find my being here inappropriate, I dont think I'll rush back.
Living on the Isle of Skye any trip abroad is a big and expensive undertaking. I bought tickets last year to take the family to Tuscany. With the current financial climate and recent events I thought that perhaps it would be wise to ask the 'experts' i.e you lot, if you thought I would be better to look around for other ones so there wouldnt be a mad rush if things went t*ts up. Not knowing the intricacies of your forum I assumed that Rumours would be an appropriate place to post, particularly after seeing talk about XL in another topic.
Thank you for your helpful comments. Obviously nobody can tell the future but I feel reassured. As for the idea that I am some sort of saboteur starting rumours. That really is laughable.

Neilly

[CAT1 REVERSION]

I'm glad at least some of us gave you some reassurance Neilly.

Please don't think we are all like Rainboe - most of us are not!

:ok:

[drivez]

Not meaning to start a this is ours that is yours attitude but at the end of the day this is spotters corner. He didn't post it on Rumours and news or else all the abuse would be understandable. Don't just take the attitude oh what a twerp posting this stuff. Its not the proffesional pilots forum and he does at the end of the day pay you guys wages.

[no sponsor]

Post was moved here from R&N on Thurs evening.

[harrogate]

Another inept Jet2 thread I see.

There will always be nay sayers on PPRUNE for any airline.

Even if Meeson held a massive pre-advertised PR stunt on the active runway at Heathrow in the middle of the day, squatted on the tarmac and sh*t genuine £20 notes at the rate of £20m per hour for a whole day while screaming "there's plenty more where that came from", some boring moron will still come on here and ask why Jet2 haven't announced thrice daily flights to Kabul from Dishforth for winter '09, and suggest that it's because they're about to go balls up.

It's not Jet2 you need to worry about at the moment. Look elsewhere. There's nothing to see there. Maybe they'll come across trouble in the future, but for now there are far, far, far less stable airlines out there.

Want to find the strugglers? Clue: look for airlines that aren't called Jet2.

[drivez]

Oh very sorry guys deserves all he gets then.