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mattyj
17th Sep 2008, 04:33
..care to shed some light on a rumour doing the rounds. Apparently a 1900 with a blue tail went on a field trip yesterday when Yaw damp was left out of the checklist:confused:new checklists chaps?

craka
17th Sep 2008, 04:52
new chklists......maybe, but YD is still part of the landing checks.

Steve Zissou
17th Sep 2008, 06:01
Finger on the pulse as always MattyJ, you must have a good source... Maybe said 1900 crew were worried about damaging the new runway seal at AP and elected to save the Taupo rate payers some money by using the grass:oh:

mattathm
17th Sep 2008, 06:39
whats the rumour?

flysaucer1200
17th Sep 2008, 06:53
My mate is Eagle Cp now he said that a girl Cp in E said that a 1900 went awol or something similar, but thats all he said to the crowd of pilots, inc myself. Don't have a clue about the check list scenario though. Would not want to let M Fun know. AP is his families, and safety is No one.

mattyj
17th Sep 2008, 07:26
..hmm Saucer..took me a few reads to get what u meant but yes, the Flappy family do seem to have a stranglehold on everything at AP but if MF is anything like his Dad..then safety will always take second place to profit:=

TinDriver
17th Sep 2008, 07:59
MattyJ,

You must be in "da loop".

Me have NFI what that all meant:confused:

Steve Zissou
17th Sep 2008, 09:58
I think what Flyingsaucer was trying to say was ... ahh, actually I've got NFI either

framer
17th Sep 2008, 13:30
Man Flyingsaucer, you are one tricky dude to understand, I've got it though,..... your mate was the chief pilot of eagle until his dad died, and he had to move to keri keri. Then he took some e and met a girl in a crowd, you were also in the crowd but admit you don't know much about checklists.Nobody is safe. ....is that what you were saying?

mattyj
17th Sep 2008, 21:35
Ok..so what I heard was that an eagle beech ran off the seal and down the grass runway into the drop zone when it touched down with yaw damp engaged..true or false? Anyone

haughtney1
17th Sep 2008, 22:27
Not to sound ignorant, but why would a yaw damper cause an aircraft to depart the runway on a landing roll?

Is the 1900D a special beast?

Just asking...:ok:

Cpt Link Hog
17th Sep 2008, 22:55
Most sophisticated turbo prop in nz no in fact the world ...very hard to understad such a highly weight sensitive weapon they do with out auto pilots, keep the crews on min wage to sustain a diet of 2 min noodles
guess beats the flying school or aeroclub from which most hail :cool:

tinpis
17th Sep 2008, 22:57
No doubt only someone with "kiwi" hours in his log book would be able to tame such a complex beast :hmm:

haughtney1
17th Sep 2008, 23:54
I'll have to remember to turn off the yaw dampers on the 757 or 767 next time I fly one...come to think of it, the Falcon 900 has them as well:ooh: I'd better remember to switch em off!

I still cant figure out how a yaw damper can stop someone from manipulating the rudder pedals in such a way so as they trundle off the sealed bit :oh: perhaps there might be a different explanation?

Cypher
18th Sep 2008, 00:08
Hey haughtney,

Mate I think this is a Cathay interview question! :-P

If I remember rightly, yaw damps come in two flavours, Parallel and Series..

Now.. trying to remember.. brain cells.... don't fail me now....

Series Yaw dampers like the ones on Boeing, don't move the rudder pedals. The input of the yaw damper is independent of the rudder pedals... You can have the yaw dampers on for take off and landing, and you still have full authority on yaw control.

Parallel yaw dampers are an older generation of yaw damp. When you engage them, the rudder pedals get stiffer as the yaw damp puts inputs that are reflected into the rudder pedals.

I used to fly a biz jet with a Parallel yaw damper.. and you certainly know when the yaw damper is engaged because you lose some yaw control authority.

Infact it was a checklist item for yaw damper off for landing, as it wouldn't be out of the question during a crosswind landing for your flight to become a lawn mowing session... you really couldn't over power the yaw damper with your feet.

Usually when you disengaged the autopilot, the yaw damp used to disengage at the same time. You could engage the yaw damp without engaging the autopilot, but the Autopilot had to be engaged with the yaw damp.. all of which was achieved with some very simple but clever control switching on the flight deck... ( mechanical)

So it wouldn't be out of the question to forget the yaw damp, land in a crosswind.. which if I remember Taupo has some nasty crosswinds, then apply reverse pitch ( and anybody having flown turboprops can attest, sometimes reverse ain't too even) and have the aircraft depart off the side of the runway...

I can say this.. because I've done it in the sim... I think I ended up mowing about a couple hundred meters of simulated grass....
I learnt my lesson pretty fast..

The Hill
18th Sep 2008, 01:20
I think its the other way round, parallel yaw dampers do move the rudder pedals and are the old school type, eg switching on after taking off and off before landing.

The series yaw damper is a development of the parallel yaw damper.

I know......i dont have a life........

Cypher
18th Sep 2008, 01:35
Hill.. you're too right..

Yeah I got em switched... probably explains why I didn't get into Cathay..:ok:

So the Parallel Yaw Damper is the type that limits your yaw control ability..

The Series does not... it works in the back of the plane without you knowing...

I'll just do a quick edit on the last post..

Cheers mate...

tinpis
18th Sep 2008, 05:12
Taupo ye olde tymes.

On a dark o'clock freezing brass monkey Taupo morning I scratched a hole in the frost on the Fletchers windscreen just big enough to peep thru to get airborne.
During take off, on the bloody runway thru the mist and the dribbly bits appears a gert great [email protected] DEER ! !
Luckily I had remembered to switch off the yaw dampers and was able to fly around him. :rolleyes:

burty
18th Sep 2008, 06:13
Cypher

Yeah I got em switched... probably explains why I didn't get into Cathay..


Oh well, at least Pac Blue don't ask such pesky Q's...

framer
18th Sep 2008, 06:25
heh heh, that wasn't a deer, it was flappy trying to find where he parked his russian beauty the night before. Lucky you missed him. I seem to remember once or twice attempting to kick it straight in a 1900 only to find the pedals locked solid due yaw damp. That was in the days when i still made mistakes and had forgoten to turn it off. Lucky they put a disconnect switch under your thumb for just that reason. It made me yearn for the fletcher again, only six switches to choose between and that includes the stereo, perfect.:ok:

tinpis
18th Sep 2008, 06:35
Stereo? ****,it hadnt been invented in them days.

Cypher
18th Sep 2008, 06:41
Burty...

Don't you have a Jetstream 32 belly pod to load? :p

Grogmonster
18th Sep 2008, 11:40
If the 1900 ran off the runway due to some sort of failure it was most likely a problem with the ground fine low pitch setting. When there is a problem it is possible to have one prop go into ground fine while the other does not. This results in a serious yaw just after touch down when the weight goes on the wheels. Just speculating but I think it unlikely that it was a yaw damper left on type of scenario.

framer
18th Sep 2008, 23:58
Stereo? ****,it hadnt been invented in them days.


**** that! part of my line up checks was that "The Rock" was tuned and identified on stereo:)

Uncle Chop Chop
19th Sep 2008, 03:48
Just do what ya Mrs tells ya Burty...bend over...take it...ohhhhhh

kiwi chick
19th Sep 2008, 05:00
I never saw nuthin in the news - or have I had my head buried too long? :confused:

TinDriver
19th Sep 2008, 05:05
Yeh, me saw nothing in the news either.

But, according to my own observations,............there does appear to be a set of fresh marks indicating a detour off the rwy........and these said marks are indicative of a 1900's wheel tracks.

Yaw damp? Pitch stops? Nfi............................:suspect:

kiwi chick
19th Sep 2008, 05:08
Ooooooooh :}

I can't believe that it's been kept so quiet. Where are all the media stories about "life threatening emergencies" and "emergency services on full alert" and "pax prayed for their lives" et al...?

Looks like Winston is just too Big for them to compete huh? :} :ok:

Steve Zissou
19th Sep 2008, 05:28
A mate of mine reckons a loader from down Manapouri way says he's seen some skid marks leaving the runway at AP and they bear a striking resemblance to those of a 1900. He says looking at the angle they left the runway they probably weren't the only skidmarks to occur suddenly during this (alledged) incident:uhoh:

TinDriver
19th Sep 2008, 05:38
Steve,

is that you I can smell?:eek:

Steve Zissou
19th Sep 2008, 06:35
People in Glasshouses ...:=

mattathm
20th Sep 2008, 10:34
The only skid marks are coming outta your mouths talking shite on this site.
Some guy puts up a serious thread on here, and 1/2 of you are talking crap about fricking radio stations in your fletchers, glass houses, Flap jack and his fricken deer genitial warmer. flying saucers, meeting girls in crowds taking e :sad: Fuk Mi.

Steve Zissou
20th Sep 2008, 10:38
Mattathm you seem to be suffering a tumour of the humour. Do yu fly jets or something? You're dangerous

mattathm
20th Sep 2008, 10:42
Mate, I struggle to fly a kite, Im a manager, but I cant even run a bath properly and Im so poor I cant even afford to pay attention.

I get my laughs from my $9.99 internet connection and this site.

GC's
:ok:

Cypher
21st Sep 2008, 00:04
Chop Chop..

I believe the call has been changed from ' Gear Down' To 'Gear Down now Bitch':E

kiwi chick
23rd Sep 2008, 00:08
GASP! :oh:

always inverted
23rd Sep 2008, 09:03
Second hand... but possible anti skid fail, lock up on one side, the a/c went cross country after landing and during the slow down and left the runway faster than taxi speed but slowed on hte grass. The earlier posts of the ground idle low pitch stops, or prop ground solinoid would not cause it to be uncontrolable after landing. I have had one... Captain is a very experienced driver within the company, herd that captn could not prevent going off runway but after slowing and anti skid off was able to taxi to apron. Cant reveal the source but should have been fairly reliable...
Undetectable till the brakes applied after landing with no warnings flashing. If this is in fact what happened.

mattathm
27th Sep 2008, 00:40
ANTI SKID! one not working, the other locked up the wheel?

jeeeeze how hard were they pushing on the brakes?:uhoh:

You not allowed to U turn on AP's runway so you gotta go to the end then turn around,

if these pilots needed so much braking action that it would lock a non antiskidded wheel then they :oh: up the landing.:rolleyes:

Normally you need pwr to get to the end of taupo, not brakes to stop you going thru the end.

Vref at taupo std weights would be about 112 kts, hook reverse upon touch down and dont even use the brakes, you will still need pwr to get to the end.

what do you think about that theory?

framer
27th Sep 2008, 01:03
Awesome theory Mattathm!
I think you should quickly ring the >10,000hr captain in question, who has been training people in and out of NZ regional ports for many years, and let him know that it's possible to land in Taupo using reverse only. I'm sure he will be shocked and amazed and really appreciate your advice. While you're there ask him about discreet anti-skid failures, he may be able to give you the refresh on systems that you quite obviously need before you attempt that command upgrade.

mattyj
27th Sep 2008, 04:35
..your mouth is writing cheques your body can't cash..

..lets hit the showers:E:E

Steve Zissou
27th Sep 2008, 20:27
Good luck with that upgrade Mattathm:ok: You guys are dangerous ... and foolish. And that makes you ... Dangerous!

TinDriver
27th Sep 2008, 20:50
Someone pass me the popcorn please:}

Cypher
28th Sep 2008, 00:41
http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/burp.gif

kiwi chick
29th Sep 2008, 01:46
Somebody appears to have gone very quiet? :oh:

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - I think he's still on the phone to the Air NZ Captain. :E

mattathm
29th Sep 2008, 07:12
No I hadnt gone anywhere, its just I have better things to do with my life than log on to this site and talk shit with the rest of you.

I was actually looking for some study material the other day for my command upgrade.... :p

I wonder if Framer could help me out with his vast knowledge on 1900's maybe ill enrole on his next ground course.

And command upgrade course, cause clearly- hes a captain with a wealth of knowledge.;)

kiwi chick
1st Oct 2008, 03:43
May I suggest a spelling and grammar refresher course before the Command Upgrade? ;)