PDA

View Full Version : Are pilots skilled drivers?


hardhatter
16th Sep 2008, 10:44
I once read somewhere that most pilots are skilled car drivers, due to their fast reflexes and excellent eyesight.

I also know a friend of mine, who now sits in the right hand seat of A319's for Lufthansa, is a skilled driver.

What do you think? Just a fairy tale or is it true?
If you have examples, please share! :ok:

Howard Hughes
16th Sep 2008, 10:51
Perhaps if we are talking about fighter jocks yes, but if we are talking about fat greying middle aged men I think not...:E

Let's face it half of them can't even hand fly with any sort of precision!;)

Lasiorhinus
16th Sep 2008, 10:55
Well, I wrote off a car a few months ago.


Still maintain it wasnt my fault...

Rainboe
16th Sep 2008, 11:08
yes, but if we are talking about fat greying middle aged men I think not...
Speak for yourself! I am an absolutely superb driver! My speciality is roaring up behind fat slow people in the fast lane at high speed in the biggest Beemer you can get, mouthing obscenities until they get their crappy rusty old Fiesta out of the way. I am superb at avoiding speed cameras thanks to GPS locators and satnav. I am even better at staying awake after a long overnight duty threading my way through idiots just out of bed in their rubbishy Toyotas as they blearily drive to work. I'm particularly good at hitting people with 4 halogen headlights when they don't look in the mirror and I am tearing up behind them. i am not good at using indicators.....Beemers don't need them- nobody but Porsche drivers are faster so nobody is coming up behind me. I can reverse (which most people can't), and I can parallel park, which very few can do. I think I qualify for your definition!

BlueDiamond
16th Sep 2008, 11:14
As a former advanced driver training instructor I often had folk sent to me for assessment, usually at a point where they were at risk of losing their licences. In amongst all the "young larrikins" were two young-ish pilots both in their mid twenties and both of whom were pretty mediocre as drivers. This does NOT mean that pilots in general are mediocre, good, abysmal or anything else ... just that the only two I ever trained were pretty average. I don't think you can generalise on this.

... due to their fast reflexes ...
If you are relying on your reflexes, you are already in trouble. Observation, planning and appropriate positioning of your vehicle are the things that will save your arse.

... and excellent eyesight.
Pilots are not especially endowed with better eyesight than anyone else. Plenty of people have great visual acuity but again, it's not the eyesight, it's how you process what you see that is important. Also on the subject of sight ... women have better peripheral vision than men, while men have better central vision so each will be better at avoiding differnt kinds of accidents.

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 11:17
Sorry Rainboe, while the Porsche was overtaking you, you may have failed to notice me overtaking it at the same time! Jaguar (not really an old mans car... if you own the right model :E)

Other than that, you are spot on! :}

hardhatter
16th Sep 2008, 11:19
Well, I myself consider my driving pretty average..I have only totalled..erm...1,2,3...yes, three cars due to accidnets, since I got my licence in '96. :\

And had 2 cars till they were well and truly spent. :8

So, all in all, pretty average...:p

Rainboe
16th Sep 2008, 11:20
Jag- great looker, but if you want to keep one on the road all the time......buy two! Mind you the latest Jag is a beaut. But, tempt me as you may, my heart belongs to BMW!

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 11:27
God I hope you don't mean the new XF! Eugh! Jag let themselves down badly with that.. the concept XF looked very good, but they watered it down for the production car.

Only the BMW M6 compares to the XK! (But I know what you mean about needing 2!!!)

As regards accidents..(ready to touch wood), 20 years driving and haven't been involved in one yet (but have seen loads of them in my rear-view mirror! :E)

sthaussiepilot
16th Sep 2008, 11:32
Are pilots skilled drivers?

Thats certianlly one word for it :E:E

x213a
16th Sep 2008, 11:36
Now are we talking fixed wing or rotary?

bunnywabbit
16th Sep 2008, 12:05
You got to consider the kit your driving. Guy infront braked I braked the old banger behind smashed me in the bum!! Then accused me of braking too hard. I would not say I am a good driver but I have a lot of techno gizzmos that help! Drove an SLK a few weeks ago the sensors would go off and lights would tell you where the obstacle is. Had to trim the hedge up the driveway.:(

Kolibear
16th Sep 2008, 12:18
my heart belongs to BMW

The most expensive part of a BMW is the badge. Underneath it, they are fairly ordinary vehicles, made by the same suppliers that make all the other mainstream cars. The cost of a car is approximately half its retail price.

One9iner
16th Sep 2008, 12:28
Not too sure about that .. In my time I've driven Fiats, VW's & Audi's, BMW's, Vauxhalls, Honda's, Toyota's, Fords..

From the cars I've driven I can easily seperate them into categories based on quality..

Poor:
Vauxhall
Fiat
Toyota

Acceptable:
Honda
Ford

Good:
VW
Audi
BMW

Now with a BMW you're always going to get a rear wheel drive car... I'm with Rainbow on this!

ford cortina
16th Sep 2008, 13:10
Driven many a car, my BMW is the best car I have ever driven. Funny really the BMW 3 series coupe is the benchmark, as the boys at TG said. Buying a 5 series is a bit of a no brainer according to James May, again the benchmark car. The 6 is a bit lost, but the M6 now thats nice, and the 7 is almost as good as the MB S class.

Comments that BMW's are as badly put together as any other car...... I won't even go there. No point really

BMW's are rear wheel drive, unlike most other cars built these days, more fun for drivers. That great chassis, you have to own one for some time to appreciate it.
The brakes are awesome, yet again The Stig rates them very highly.

BMW's do not share their chassis or underpinnings with any other car. Fact, Audi and VW, Seat, Skoda all share platforms, as do Jag and Ford, X type and S type for example. Vauxhall and Saab share, don't mention the Japanese the cars are well built, but for a price.

You pay your money and take you pick, Me I will stick with German cars, what really gets me is that I look and lust after the Honda S2000 and Mazda RX-8 but know in my heart I will buy a BMW coupe again.

Romeo India Xray
16th Sep 2008, 13:15
This is a question I have thought a lot about over the last year.

A year ago I was driving a CAA private contractor (non pilot) to his hotel. He commented that "you pilots all seem to drive the same".

It transpired that he had been given many lifts by pilots while he was working as a consultant to CAAs all over the world. He stated that of all the drivers he encountered, it was pilots who generally (as a group) were more cautious, used their mirrors more frequently, positioned the vehicle in the best place in the lane, braked progressively and safely, and left wider margins/larger gaps.

Before these comments I had not considered this, but it got me thinking and noticing how other pilots drive compared to non-pilots and there seems to be some truth in it.

I did of course go through the boy racer stage, but I was about 10 years old and had a BMX. Now when I drive I try to give it the same resepct as I give flying when I fly. I am very aware of the fact that every other road user is potentially my murderer and that I my driving safety awareness should be akin my flying safety awareness.

And before someone asks, yes I used to inspect the brakes for wear/leaks on a regular basis along with servicing at a strict schedule as per the manufacturer. Now no longer required as I seldom drive and when I do it is a pool car.

RIX

Mr Grimsdale
16th Sep 2008, 13:36
Funny how half the thread has dissolved into a discussion about what are good and bad cars! Funnier still how a BMW driver is justifying their purchase. The lads at work who drive BMWs never tire of telling everyone how bloomin' marvellous they are.

I agree with the last post, pilots should be safer not because they've got faster reflexes but because they should be more cautious and have a greater appreciation of distances, speeds etc.

ford cortina
16th Sep 2008, 13:52
Maybe it is because they are bloomin' marvellous :ok:

603DX
16th Sep 2008, 13:55
Apart from a bit of gliding and some flying lessons I'm not a real pilot - but nor I suspect are several other posters in this thread. However, I do drive a fair bit, and am fortunate enough to be able to do it in a 3 Series, bought new from the showroom with hard-earned pennies. After a working life as a professional engineer I do appreciate sound engineering design, and a Beemer has it in spades - made like the proverbial Swiss watch.

So I'm certainly not going to tear its guts out in futile and potentially dangerous driving techniques on public roads. The three comedians on Top Gear are just that - they don't have to pick up the bills for the damage they inflict on fine machinery for the entertainment of some, and the drooling admiration of others less 'sympatico' with well-designed cars.

I think Rainboe was probably being humorous/ironic/sarcastic in post #4, I can't really believe that an experienced professional aviator would behave in the manner described. And if I'm wrong, I hope I never encounter him on the road!

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 14:00
And if I'm wrong, I hope I never encounter him on the road!
:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E

ford cortina
16th Sep 2008, 14:01
603DX, I hope you are not assuming that because I like Top Gear, I drive like a maniac. I do enjoy driving, but do not try to destroy my car and anyone else when I drive.

ArthurR
16th Sep 2008, 14:08
I supose that maybe they could be better drivers, perhaps its because they have to do things themselves in a car, not leave it to the computers like in an aircraft :E




awaiting incomming.........

anotherglassofwine
16th Sep 2008, 14:10
Rainboe - you're spot on about beamers, one correction - Porsche coxsters or gaymans aint going to get near to an M3! :ok:

603DX
16th Sep 2008, 14:15
No, ford cortina, I enjoy TG too - I just wince when they do daft things like roar around salt-water areas like Pendine Sands in fine machines, and burn out very expensive tyres doing stupid 'doughnuts', etc.

No offence intended to you, I assure you! :)

Windy Militant
16th Sep 2008, 14:17
BMW's do not share their chassis or underpinnings with any other car.
But an awful lot of the bits are made by the same people who brought you the Maxi, Marina and Allegro. ;)

As for reflexes everybody has the same response time it's fixed by the speed that neural signals travel along the nervous system and is pretty much the same for Fast Jet pilots, F1 drivers or Joe Blogs.
What makes the difference is how you respond to percived stimuli and as stated anticipation and planning is what makes for the best drivers.
I don't know if it's a myth but I heard that Andy Green was chosen to drive Thrust SSC because he was the only one of the final selection who turned on his windscreen wipers before hitting the water splash not after on the rally stage test. :ok:

hardhatter
16th Sep 2008, 14:48
Are Beemer drivers dfferent drivers then compared to the rest? :}:E

I'll duck for cover now...:ooh:

Parapunter
16th Sep 2008, 15:19
Yes, they're @rseholes usually. Must be great buying a 3 series from a dealer. Here's your keys sir & here's the road too. Yes that's right, buy one of these & you own the road too.

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 15:38
Very good Parapunter! :ok:

603DX
16th Sep 2008, 15:47
That made me laugh, Parapunter. I used to have the same view of Beemer drivers, including "Does the licence to speed come with the warranty, or will you post it on to me?" at the dealers. In fact, I still
think most of us are @rseholes, I just hope I'm not one of them.

Saab Dastard
16th Sep 2008, 15:48
I know one PPL who is an excellent pilot and also an excellent driver, both on the road and on the track. I have no doubt that being good at both is not a coincidence - I think that attitude and mechanical sympathy play an enormous part in competence.

SD

winglit
16th Sep 2008, 15:50
I would never buy a BMW because I like being let out at junctions!

I appreciate the engineering in the Beemer, but it's what they stand for, most are owned by to$$ers! I'm a Benz man myself, although I might consider an Audi next.

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 16:04
I always let beemer drivers out at junctions... and then proceed to rip away past them at the first opportunity! :E (I guess I AM an @rsehole!! :})

Rainboe
16th Sep 2008, 16:34
Now when I drive I try to give it the same resepct as I give flying when I fly. I am very aware of the fact that every other road user is potentially my murderer and that I my driving safety awareness should be akin my flying safety awareness.

I drive aware that every other road user is potentially my victim! However it is not a problem. Sexual activity has reached the working classes now so they are easily replaceable, and somebody has to end up with all those rusty Fiestas and utterly awful Mondeos with those foam rubber bumpers. No 'respect', just 'get out of my way, creep! You ain't getting no dulcet tones on the PA now- so get on with it and move that Japanese crap out of my way, I have been working all night!' Accompanied by flashing lights, I find it quite effective.

I am especially enraged by little sit-up and beg type Korean boxes (with utterly daft names like 'Matoz' or 'Matiz' whatever) with tyres about 2 1/2'' wide driven by a little white haired shrunken figure with sticky-outy ears, with sitting next to him an even more shrunken white haired figure, both watching the road with mouths open. If cars could eat, they would be gone in one bite. My Beemer is a shark!

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 16:39
Ah Rainboe, you have brightened up my day (4 halogen lights-worth anyway!) :ok:

Windy Militant
16th Sep 2008, 16:41
Having recently watched a youf in a Fiasco pull out in front of a fire engine which had it's "music and lights" full on I find it touching that the beemerboys think a few halogens will attract any attention. Most drivers will get a Sun tan on the backs of their necks first.
BTW is it true that on page two of the Beemer manual it says "you may now invade Poland". :}

Saab Dastard
16th Sep 2008, 16:41
My Beemer is a shark

Rainboe, my 928 is a shark! :E

SD

rhythm method
16th Sep 2008, 16:44
my 928 is a shark!

A 928???? Do they still stock 4-star where you live? :}

Rainboe
16th Sep 2008, 17:01
Does anybody else get 'violent urges'? Like when some idiot in a Nissan biscuit tin or a rusty Renault doesn't check his mirror and pulls out in front of you coming up fast? I get so annoyed with them I have to promise myself that one day I will just scoop them up instead of slamming on anchors. And no I am not a female having a period- I once read that women in that mode could be driving down the road absolutely furious and murder-minded, so much so that one woman 'felt she could drive right into oncoming traffic she felt so enraged'

Scary. You think I'm bad? Menstruating women should have blue flashing lights on their roofs!

Loose rivets
16th Sep 2008, 17:35
I appreciate the engineering in the Beemer, but it's what they stand for, most are owned by to$$ers!

Yes, yes...but how do you know that:ooh:





Scary. You think I'm bad? Menstruating women should have blue flashing lights on their roofs!

What, as well as in their eyes.:}

larssnowpharter
16th Sep 2008, 18:15
A long, long time ago, before the Golf GTi and before BMWs were such a very, very, common sight on the roads I was a (very) junior pilot.

I was lucky enough to have received a small inheritance from an aunt who I had met twice. The money was enough to buy a rather beat up Aston. I was 23.

I don't know now but, back then, one had to declare one's job on the application for insurance. Being an honest sort of chap, I duly did so. The quote I got from the broker (no on line stuff back then) was half the value of the car for 3rd party cover a year. I asked:

'What if I were a banker or teacher?'.

'It would be about half', replied the broker.

So, one assumes that somewhere the actuaries really DO know that RAF pilots - at least - are NOT a good insurance risk.

As an aside; beemers are crap, especially the 3 series unless it's an M3 which, despite the bloody terrible clutch, is half acceptable. With one gap of a couple of years, one has always kept a Spyder in the garage alongside the LandCruiser.

Yer ain't a REAL petrolhead until you have owned an Alfa.:ok:

G-CPTN
16th Sep 2008, 18:27
I believe that the aversion against pilots (and jockeys) is partly because of the class of passenger that might be carried and likely damages payable in case of loss of earning ability.
Jobs that are considered higher than average risk, from an insurance point of view, include professional entertainers, sportsmen, members of H M Forces, staff in the licensed trade, market traders and journalists.
The reasoning behind some jobs being a high insurance risk than others is based upon a range of factors, including driving at night, under time pressure or with an increased likelihood of driving after having consumed an alcoholic drink.

larssnowpharter
16th Sep 2008, 18:32
I believe that the aversion against pilots (and jockeys) is partly because of the class of passenger that might be carried and likely damages payable in case of loss of earning ability.

One has to admit that some of the passegers were sitting on a fortune. :E

Loose rivets
16th Sep 2008, 22:06
I drove a BMW 316 for most of this year. All up round the Lake district for a month or so on those skinny roads. Twas a dear little car. Quite sad to give it back to the kids. They had swapped for my Accord so as to have 4 doors to put babies in the back, and as soon as I got into the German offering, I could feel the difference. Just plain more solid. With an un-cluttered front hub, it would even turn in a space smaller than a football field.

Got back here, The Caddy started first go, but the almost unused E500 (5.7ltr 32valve V8) just sat low on its haunches and gave every kind of dire warning one could imagine...can't start -- too low. Conserving batteries. (What the [email protected]#%k for?) See a specialist. Have your eyes tested. You know, those types of warnings.

"Never [email protected]#$ing cars should never be mixed with computers. :ugh::ugh:


Put a new battery in it. (Got four strong men to help me lift it into the trunk.) It was a serious battery. So serious in fact that it must have pondered upon its own importance for 7 months ... and gone flat.

Now the car doesn't know what size I am, or how to open its sun-roof, or to put the side windows up without holding the switch, or tune the radio or move the steering wheel out the way of my fat tum when I get out. But it does go. In fact the problem is that it goes too well, and the local Sheriff is likely to shoot me if I use any of its whoomph.

I would have loved this car in England up to 15 years ago. Leaving NWI at 03:Sparrow's fart and heading first for Colchester on that A140 was a joy. Most times had it all to myself. Having that kind of go, and that kind of gripshun, would have just been what that road was there for. :E Sadly, now, no matter how good you are, it's just not safe to really belt. Pelple are about at all hours of the day and night. What the **** are they doing? And indeed where did they come from...better not get me on that one. And I'm not talking imigration...just procreation. :hmm:

Planning ahead is what it's all about. I've said this before, but observation is the key. In over 50 years of really looking at the movements of pedestrians, only twice has the classic emergency stop really been necessary. The last time the tree year old was about an inch off the bonnet as Mr Honda's ABS quit howling. Litterally, one inch. No amount of braking would have saved the child if I had not seen her pulling on her mother's arm and seen her hand slip away. Her blond curles were all I could see as I stopped.

Naturally, I was chuffed about stopping, but now I'm at a phase that I'm growing increasingly concerned about maintaining a zero-accident status. Daft I know, but I'm almost afraid to tempt providence by saying that...but that's the deal. When do you quit because you're finding modern traffic too much to cope with. 75? 80?

I've spent most of my life driving flat out...just off valve-bounce in every gear in the old days. But now, things are different. Young folk are flouting the law just as I used to, and they're fazing me because I'm not up on red-line with them. They appear and are gone and I can see that they are putting people at grave risk, because there are so many people in their cross-hairs. All I had to watch out for was side roads and folk's gateways, now, suff is pushing into A and B roads from all sorts of angles and from the most unlikely places. Still the young'uns push on. It's their turn, their dads had open roads and told them the tales, but now they're told not to do what their dads did. Yeah, right. They won't...until dad's not looking.

A two or more tier license is urgently needed. Something to work for. The Advanced course was a very positive step in the right direction, but it needs something that can be won, and be proud of and indeed lost, if standards are not maintained. The thing is, those of us that are willing to make the speeds fit the situation, are frustrated by the likes of White-Van man, and his evident immunity from any form of legal control. Why do I sit at 77ish, when WVM come by at 90 with stuff having to avoid his mobile phone induced trajectory?

I do believe I'm having a rant. Going swimming. Going to go past the school at 22mph in a 150 mph car. Going to order a new number 5, that has been screwdrivered off the trunk of me car. I'd only driven it 2 miles in 7 months, and people are nicking bits. What's the point in it all? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

hardhatter
17th Sep 2008, 06:27
Ah yes, it may be bad in Europe, but have you ever driven in Johannesburg, South Africa?
Now THAT is a true test of your driving skills! :suspect:
Over there, taxi's called mini-busses have right of way, left of way and any other way they can think of, literally! :eek:

Once driven behind one that lost its rear right wheel whilst driving in the right lane at 150 kph!:ouch:

Mac the Knife
17th Sep 2008, 06:40
I LOVE people who zoom up behind me and start flashing their lights!

Mounted a bit of salvaged railwayline on the back as an extra bumper on the old Landy Series III a couple of years ago.

I adore the crunching noises when I nudge the brakes and the black taxis (or beemers) mash expensively into it.

Amandla!

:ok:

Fark'n'ell
17th Sep 2008, 09:35
Ah yes, it may be bad in Europe, but have you ever driven in Johannesburg, South Africa?
Now THAT is a true test of your driving skills!

How about NZ. Sideways around a corner on a dirt road and you meet someone coming toward you.That's where I learn't to drive over 40 years ago.Much rather fly.Don't have some idiot coming toward you at high speed ten feet away.

BladePilot
17th Sep 2008, 10:32
Pilots are indeed skilled drivers, how do we know?

They're the ones who don't slow down in thick fog because they are driving 'on instuments'! :) wicked!

Wader2
17th Sep 2008, 10:37
Blue Diamond said two young-ish pilots both in their mid twenties and both of whom were pretty mediocre as drivers

If you are relying on your reflexes, you are already in trouble. Observation, planning and appropriate positioning of your vehicle are the things that will save your arse.

True but it's how you process what you see that is important and therein lies a clue to the answer.

Romeo India Xray said a CAA private contractor . . . commented that "you pilots all seem to drive the same". . . . it was pilots who generally (as a group) were more cautious, used their mirrors more frequently, positioned the vehicle in the best place in the lane, braked progressively and safely, and left wider margins/larger gaps.

Windy Militant said fixed by the speed that neural signals travel along the nervous system and is pretty much the same for . . . What makes the difference is how you respond to percived stimuli and as stated anticipation and planning is what makes for the best drivers.

I suggest the answer is not super fast reflexes, but how they react to perceived stimuli. The nervous system may transmit all the relevant information to the brain but it is a question of what you do with that information. “Frozen with fear”, “rooted to the spot” etc are all clichés related to stimuli but suggest an inability to both process and react.

That pilots can process multiple inputs and react appropriately is called aptitude and situational awareness. Some pilots will have quicker reactions than other; some will have the ability to process more information than other; some may be Harrier pilots.

So pilots, by selection, are in a group that has the aptitude and situational awareness to be pilots and able to translate that ability to become skilled drivers. That said, so pilots commit aircrew error accidents. :}

BladePilot
17th Sep 2008, 10:46
Want to test or sharpen your driving skills? then join the Iftar500 in the UAE nothing beats the sheer excitement of the rush home just before sundown during the month of Ramadan.

Jet Blast warning can be applied to this annual CARnage festival 'stay out if you are faint hearted'!

Rainboe
17th Sep 2008, 11:33
Doubt if it beats the Chichester bypass during rush hour! The M25 and M62 have their moments too! Rush hour in the UK is now becoming hell on earth. The bloody greens have succeeded in killing off the road building program, so we suffer with what we've got into infinity. Except when I finish, I will be sitting on a beach somewhere laughing about it.

cockney steve
17th Sep 2008, 11:35
As a pimply- faced youth, I was ferried to hospital to see my sick (TB) sister by a pilot living locally.
We were batting down the A127 on his Triumph Tigress 250,(yup, Pilots lived it up in the 60's as well. )when the Donk quit, locking the rear wheel :ooh: after a slide that would have shamed a speedway-rider, he casually bid me dismount, groped around under the dualseat and announced that "the fxxing petrol-tap vibrates closed, then it does that." kicked it into life and off we went to Rochford hospital with a couple of steaming carriers of fish and chips for the ward prisoners....sorry, occupants.
He drove a car with equal verve and aplomb......good driver (and threw some fantastic parties) :D

hardhatter
24th Sep 2008, 11:25
*bump*

just to see if anyone else is interested.

CUNIM
24th Sep 2008, 12:16
The ability to process multiple inputs from many perceived unrelated items is a part of the accident avoidance success. The added ability to calculate relative velocities and angles of convergence is another which as an old and never bold controller from London Centre always stood me in good stead over my twenty years at the coal face. I apply much the same unwritten rules on the highway where I love to fit in the flow on roundabouts without affecting the driver's velocity behind me. Just like fitting aircraft onto final from differing inbound streams.:ok:

Icare9
24th Sep 2008, 12:39
Loose rivets:
What's the point in it all? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!
What makes you suspect that he screwdrivered off the number????:O

ExSp33db1rd
24th Sep 2008, 12:47
Interesting comments about BMW's. Learned the true value of my 2002 Tii Touring once, when called from standby and daringly more than 1 1/2 hrs from Heathrow at the time, and the whole of the M.3 stretched before me. Drive ( or more accurately - exploit ) a Daihatsu Charade now - almost more fun as a geriatric boy-racer.

The Nr Fairy
24th Sep 2008, 13:15
Rainboe:

Not BLUE flashing lights - red ones more appropriate !

SXB
24th Sep 2008, 13:37
Getting back to the original question of "are pilots skilled drivers" my father flew fast military jets for more than 25 years and he's always been a truly awful driver. He drives too fast, has no regard for other road users and takes unnecessary risks. The worst part is that he honestly believes he's the best driver in the world and will not accept any criticism from anyone, despite numerous accidents of his making.

All his pilot mates were exactly the same , I was under standing orders from my mother never to accept a lift from any of my father's colleagues. The only thing that saved other road users from further carnage was the whole squadron seemed to be completely and utterly pissed about 50% of time. To their credit they never drove whilst pissed and restricted their activities to throwing eggs at each other, burning pianos or thinking up ways to piss off either the Nimrod pilots or the boss. God forbid if the Russians had decided to invade Britain in the early 1980s......

As far as cars are concerned I wouldn't drive or own any vehicle that wasn't built by Germans. There are several ways to build cars, there's the right way and several other ways, Germans always choose the right way.

Wader2
24th Sep 2008, 13:37
CUNIM, quite.

It is the degree of situational awareness that is important which of course comes from the ability to absorb multiple sensory inputs and react to them.

We have all seen the antithesis of this, the little old lady peering fixedly through the steering wheel resolutely ignoring anything in her peripheral area.

To quote my late aunt, who at the time was not that aged, when stopped as she left the Mersey Tunnel for changing lanes contray to the notices on the walls of the tunnel:

"Young man, I was far too busy making sure that I avoided all the traffic coming towards me to stop and read anything on the side of the tunnel." [she got away with it]

Of course a fighter pilot does not make a superior driver all the time as they too may suffer and become tired and emotional.:)

G&T ice n slice
24th Sep 2008, 22:56
I'm not sure pilots are better/worse than average, but other factors apply, especially long-haul multiple time-zone trips

2 that I know of, both involve driving home after long trips.

first one pulls out of the old car park at Hatton X. Up to the traffic lights. Stops. Waits for lights to change, pulls out and bang into the side of a big red bus. Yes. stopped for a green light, pulled out when lights changed, (to red)

2nd one - 'minor' tail-end shunt. again just nearing home. Car ahead pulled up (to pick up a passenger). Pilot following shunts into the back. Afterwards admitted that first reaction was to pull back on the yoke to fly over the obstruction...

I'm sure these days you all get appropriate tarining to be aware of degrading of the senses etc. but do be careful !

Cheers

p.s. I am a cr*p driver, but then I'm not a pilot

con-pilot
24th Sep 2008, 23:18
At a party the other night we were talking to a friend who just had an accident, when I was asked how many accidents I had in my life I answered none, I've never had an accident. (Well except on a motor-scooter when I was 15.)

The lady that we were talking to, that had the accident, asked me how I had managed not have any accidents. Before I could answer my dear beloved wife jumped in and said,

"Why honey, that is because when people see you coming they get out of the way. Even the police, that's why you have never gotten a ticket."

:(

Shaggy Sheep Driver
25th Sep 2008, 00:07
We were batting down the A127 on his Triumph Tigress 250,(yup, Pilots lived it up in the 60's as well. )

Hey, they were pretty rare - but I had one in me yoof! A mad 250cc motor scooter. I doubt the petrol tap expanation... that would not lock the wheel. Mine used to overheat (250cc motorbike engine with inadequate fan cooling in a scooter body) and sieze up. After it cooled, you just re-started and carried on.

Triumph - they really were rubbish. I ended up riding mine naked (not me - the scooter!). Panels all off, it cooled the engine a lot better.

I put it down to pilots being attracted to max cc - there was no bigger engined scoot back then than the Tigress. :)

G-CPTN
25th Sep 2008, 00:29
Apart from the mighty 277cc Maicoletta . . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Maicoletta.jpg
YouTube - maicoletta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPsXHRiAUIA)
c.1957 Maicoletta 277cc - Motorbase (http://www.motorbase.com/auctionlot/by-id/1447059822/)

Mine had a shaved and polished cylinder head too - very fast!

tinpis
25th Sep 2008, 04:30
They looked like they would work didnt they?

http://www.classicmotorcycles.org.uk/bikemuseum/images/triumph/triumph_1957_tigercub_200cc.jpg

Loose rivets
25th Sep 2008, 06:48
con! Your wife said gotten ? :p

What makes you suspect that he screwdrivered off the number????http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/embarass.gif


Could this be a clue?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/Image00001-2.jpg

Pontius Navigator
25th Sep 2008, 07:27
I've never had an accident.

"Why honey, that is because when people see you coming they get out of the way. Even the police, that's why you have never gotten a ticket."

:(

I can appreciate that, having been driven around Oklahoma City. The rules seem quite clear. No driving below 55 and no driving with an unopened bottlee or can in the car. And no poncey drinking from a glass when driving past a policeman; swing from the bottle.

Yes. All true. Not me but this little blonde captain.

Loose rivets
25th Sep 2008, 09:33
Hah! Here it is. I promise it's not stage-managed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/Picture041-1.jpg


Having got back from neighbors with thousand acre gardens, I was confronted with not only having to change gear, but stuffing my old car into the only parking place within 50 miles of daughter's front door. I confess, the girls did tap as I neared clonking point.

No chance of any more stuff going in the tip....sheeeeeeeeeeesh, one minute there and the rubbish started to be toted out again. Don't the English ever stop doing DIY?

ShyTorque
25th Sep 2008, 16:15
A good friend of mine was an excellent pilot, later flew Buccaneers and did 15 missions over Bagdhad, etc. He also became Wg Cdr of a certain RAF aerobatic team flying nine red jets.

I would fly anywhere with him (and did, including at 100 feet agl at night on NVGs). However, after a couple of narrow escapes, I never liked being a passenger in his car. These included going partially sideways up a grass verge after he failed to see the Mercedes stopped at the junction ahead. He also hit a 5 foot high snowbank sideways in his 3 week old car whilst trying to do a handbrake turn on sheet ice, on a bend, on adverse camber. NOOOO! said I, as I heard him shout "180" as he reached for the handbrake.... :eek: BANG, too late... :rolleyes:

al446
25th Sep 2008, 18:39
SXF - Would you also include Czech manufacture? I drive Skoda Octavia but have heard somewhere that next Audi is going to be built there.

Cant speak for pilots but some RAF fitters were crap drivers in the 70's. I remember a guy we called Fangio, took us from Kinloss to Lossie, most frightened I've been in a car in snow.

SXB
25th Sep 2008, 18:45
A good friend of mine was an excellent pilot, later flew Buccaneers and did 15 missions over Bagdhad, etc

A fine aircraft which proved its worth in Iraq. I assume your friend must have been in 208 ?

SXB
25th Sep 2008, 18:59
SXF - Would you also include Czech manufacture? I drive Skoda Octavia but have heard somewhere that next Audi is going to be built there.

I've never driven a Skoda but I did see one displayed at Prague airport the other day - the new Superb. It did seem like a very well put together vehicle, obviously I would have to drive one before making a judgement.

The thing about BMWs in particluar is the way they handle, the build quality is something I just take for granted, though the gap between the Germans and other manufacturers has narrowed considerably on the build quality front.