Westland Whirlwind Helicopter - XP395 / XJ729

[R8014]

I am an Archaeological diver currently investigating a Westland Whirlwind HAS10 cab located in New England Quarry, Plymton. The number on the tail is XJ729, the number in the cab and the nose is XP395. Whilst the service history is fairly straight forward, the details of their civilian life is not. can anybody help with the fol:

1. it is suggested that XJ729 ditched during a SAR exercise, but apparently is still flying in ireland under civil registration......................
2. XJ729 was filmed in a programme for BBC 999 Life savers.......
3. XP395 was deployed to Cyprus as part of the peace keeping force but not as far as i can tell with 84 Sqn, can anybody help?

If anybody who operated or worked with Whirlwinds could shed any light i would really appreciate it. In particular i would really like to see any pictures of the cabs that you may have.
many thanks.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

My initial comment would be that the tail-booms on Whirlwinds can be swapped around, so I wouldn't believe 100% that it is XJ729 down there.
Whereabouts 'in the nose' does it say XP395?

There are plenty of photos of 'XJ729' which is now flying as G-BVGE - simply enter G-BVGE into your search engine and follow the links.

[Biggles225]

XP395 (Whirlwind HAR10) was at Chivenor with A Flt 22 Sqn in April 1974, and on SARTU 1979/1980 so I'd assume that it stayed on 22 Sqn or SARW books until the Wessex took over, I 'm sure it didnt get to 84 Sqn A or B flts though. Bit of a sad end although it could have been put there to dive on or something? :sad:

[Lynxman]

G-INFO web site lists G-BVGE as previously XJ729. Nice current photo of it there as well.

[sycamore]

From a small `Air-Britain` publication I have,XP395 was on 110 Sdn,probably in the early `60`s as they were in the Far East. 230 Sdn went to Borneo in late `65,as 225 Sdn was disbanded in Nov`65,aircraft and crews remaining shared out between 103,110 and possibly 230,anywhere between Seletar,Kuching,Labuan,and Butterworth.230 were there until late`66/early 67 I think,as I came back from 103,and went to 230 at Odi. in May 67,and `395 was there,until Dec67. The Sdn sent 6,possibly more a/c to Cyprus,probably about then,for the UN,but I don`t know details.230Sdn records would help/Sdn Association.
XJ 729 was at Finningley/22 Sdn between `80- Dec 81 when all UK Whirlwinds were grounded,and remained there for a long time after,in use as part of the Open Day displays,until bought privately.I did actually get airborne in it after `grounding`,as we put on a new set of blades,intention to keep it as a `hack`/comms/trainer,and whilst `tracking` it mysteriously got ground resonance,so I had to get airborne!! It was a very nice WW with lots of low time bits,but I don`t recall tailboom problems,so a `swop` must have taken place earlier,possibly for corrosion,and repair.
Anyway `Archie` ,I think you`ll have to dig,or dive a little deeper to find the full story on both aircraft.
Back to `395 briefly,I recall at some stage on 230,there was a Detachment either sent to British Guiana,possibly Simon Pettit was one of the pilots ,if anyone else can fill in,so it may have travelled there..Syc

Edit; the serial nos. were usually painted on any removable panels,ie doors,nose doors,cowlings,on the inside,as they probably wouldn`t fit another airframe....

[R8014]

A bit more detail.....

The tail no XP395 is painted on to the front panel of the aircraft, behind where it looks like the nose/front light should go. apologies for the lack of technical terminology, have tried and failed to insert a picture.

2 main theories at the moment:

1. XP395 was bought and placed in the quarry, painted with XJ729 for the BBC 999 lifesavers program. this is what the local oral history says. However, XJ729 is still flying so did it ever ditch underwater? unlikely i think.

2. The cab of XP395 and tail boom of XJ729 were bought from the same scrap dealer in Lincolnshire and joined together to make one wreck, possibly for the tv program where the tail number was of no consequence. The cab of XJ729 was then sold on and made airworthy with another tail boom.

Unfortuneatly the BBC aren't very forthcoming and the companies that we think may have owned or worked on the cabs are quite hard to find - the names and addresses dont seem to be current. Has anybody heard of Austen Associates? They seem to be involved with a number of restored Westland aircraft but i cant get any contact details for them. The quarry is owned by a university who use it for studying algae growth. Fire and rescue also use it for training.

http://www.pprune.org/H:%5CMy%20Documents%5CNAS%5CJSSADC%20Field%20School%5CPhotos %5CDuncan%20-%202008_08_22%5CIMG_1264

[sycamore]

And a bit more, if you `google` xp395,there is quite a bit on pages 1-4,but beware Husqvarna xp395; it was given maintenance serial,date unk.8674m,and probably went to Halton.However in `Key Pub archives`, there is a reference to it being at Bicester in Aug`63 for repair,note,crashed Chivenor 3/1/63.
Austen Associates was tied to Austen Circuses,run by Mr Austen,to the N of Swindon,and he may have bought it from a dealer in Tattershall,who bought a few WWs.He(Austen) had a couple of WWs in his yard,as I went and had a look,having seen them from `Albert` in the circuit at Lyneham;one was `729,can`t remember the other.It may be that the tailboom was changed after it left RAF service.

[Oldlae]

On the top of the cabin roof above the pilot's seat there should be one or two nameplates, one is for the cockpit roof structure and the other for the aircraft, sometimes the plates are missing after modifications etc. The aircraft plate will show the serial number, the s/n for XJ729 is WA100. If you find a number you can check it with Westlands. I have been involved with both helicopters but my records are in storage, PM me, as I wouldn't mention the owner's names without their permission.

[Spurlash2]

R8014

I seem to recall some BBC filming for 999 that involved a SAR cab ditching whilst on a rescue. The rescue winching was off the n Devon coast (ahhh, Chivenor!) and the scenes of the a/c stoofing in were filmed elsewhere. I believe that the BBC paid a (large) sum of money for an airframe, and then threw it into the water, off Plymouth. It was then filmed with the patient and crew escaping.

S2

[reallydeskbound]

If you are looking for the name of the scrap merchants in Lincolnshire from where the bits of the aircraft could have originated then look up Windleys Scrap merchants, Tattershall, Lincs. From memory they had cornered the market in Whirlwind bits some time ago, I remember flying from a strip they had there and seeing a large number of Whirlwinds in various states.

The owner had an immaculate Whirlwind - privately owned - which I had the immense pleasure of seeing fly once, seem to remember it was in the old Queen's Flight colours.

Also a large amount of Pan Am wreckage on the site (once - maybe still) from a certain terrorist outrage!

[Spurlash2]

Memory update.

The BBC paid about 10K to have an old airframe resprayed to represent the airframe that ditched off Chivenor during a rescue. It was then placed back into Davy Jones' locker for the programme.:ouch:

Apologies for the repetition. Detail update.

S2

[Spurlash2]

The civvy owned WW that was used for the filming came from Ireland, and when taking off from Chiv for the filming sequence, developed an hydraulic problem, which caused a vast amount of 'smoke in the cockpit'. The pilot 'panned' back to the dispersal at Chiv, and the SAR GE's changed (I think) an hydraulic pump that had had given up the ghost.

The spare part (don't quote me!) to fix it, may well have been from old RAF stock in the hangar.

[Rigga]

IIRC the military Whirlwind had two systems - Hydraulic or Manual.

The Hyd Pump fitted in the rear of the MGB beside the Generator and both had a rubber damper to absorb Drive vibrations. Often, those dampers would deteriorate and effectively melt in their working environment (very hot and no ventilation) causing a lot of unwanted smoke in the cockpit due to the soundproofing blanket being no help with smoke!

It took about two hours to remove the pump if you didn't know what you were doing, and at least an hour to fit the new one even if you did know what you were doing! Those Vee-Band Clamps were really difficult to do up using a two-and-a-half foot screwdriver.

I seem to recall changing several in fields throughout Shropshire and often mixed with a bit of overnight dossing down in a Bedford JU! As soon as the rodneys left we'd abandon the aircraft and find the warmth of the local pub for a couple of hours.

After an assisted Kip we'd do the job and have a nice camping breakfast of butter-fried eggs, bacon and sausages, and then sit around waiting for the rodneys to return after trying to find where they'd left us.

[Oldlae]

Are you not talking about the vee-band clamp on the generator, doing it up was not quite so difficult as wire locking the screw. The rubber adapter wasn't really necessary, just one of those things fitted on early helicopters.

[Rigga]

Hmmmm...Yep! your probably right! Thanks for the correction.

It may be that my memories are merging somewhat? - but it was still good nights/mornings out from a dreary hangar!

[R8014]

Dear All,
many thanks for the info you have all given so far, it has been a great help in being able to pin the aircraft to locations and units as well as following the historical record. The historical background section of our report should be completed in the next couple of weeks. If anybody would like to see a copy or has any suggestions as to how it would be best to post or display it, please let me know.

[RileyDove]

A interesting report! I had long believed that the machine used in the '999' episode was XP354 which was a Whirlwind HAR.10 used by Brian Austen as a spares ship. It vanshed years ago. It's worth pointing out that Whirlwind parts were swapped around quite a lot on machines even in service.

Is the machine at a diving pit?

[R8014]

The aircraft is located in New England Quarry near Plympton. It is used for diver training and by Plymouth University for studying algae growth, amongst other things. Did you see the 999 episode? The BBC are not being helpful at the moment. Do you know of/remember the incident they were re-creating? Any info would be most helpful

[Biggles225]

The Whirlwind was from Chivenor and was coming back with a casualty who'd fallen on Lundy while climbing, and following an engine failure, it ditched in the Bristol channel on the way home. There was quite a furore over the supposed actions of this casualty in getting himself out of the stretcher unaided (which he didnt), I know it nearly drowned the winchman getting him out of the stretcher and out of the cabin! IIRC the 999 programme was an attempt on the part of the 'casualty' to apologise to all and set the record straight. :D
Thats the best I can do for you I'm afraid.