Plane crash at Jamestown S.A.

[Desert Flower]

Just heard that there has been a crash at the Jamestown airstrip. One person taken to hospital with multiple injuries. That's all I know at this stage.

DF.

A PILOT suffered suspected spinal injuries when his crop duster crash landed today in South Australia's mid-north.

The 38-year-old man was the sole occupant of the single engine light aircraft which crash landed at the Jamestown airport just before 11am (CST) today, police say.

The man suffered suspected spinal injuries and leg lacerations and was taken to the Jamestown Hospital for treatment, a police spokesman said.

[Barramundi]

ABC Radio said ultra-light plane involved. Pilot in hospital suspected spinal injuries. Hope he recovers

[Desert Flower]

ABC Radio said ultra-light plane involved.

My initial thought was that it would be an ultralight of some type. Maybe it was an ultralight cropduster! ;) Will wait & see if there's anything on the ABC news tonight.

DF.

[tinpis]

So far so good...:hmm:
Nil crashes in Darwhine today....:ok:

[VH-XXX]

Desert Flower, my first thought is that it would be some General Aviation type of sorts. Sure enough it was. The GA guys need to smarten up, I mean you are even crashing on runways too!

[Desert Flower]

I mean you are even crashing on runways too!

I'm being flippant here, but if anyone has the urge to crash at my airport then please consider doing it in the paddock off the end of runway 29. That way I won't have to close the aerodrome or lay a displaced threshold! ;)

DF.

[Jabawocky]

Says he who flys VH reg'd a/c mostly :=

Nice fighting words tho http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0030.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-confused-smileys.php)

[lgsto]

Just seen photo, looks like a Jabiru 170 or 230. Hope driver is ok.

[GeorgeB]

From Adelaide Now see
AdelaideNow... Ultra-light pilot hurt in crash-landing at Jamestown (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24334506-5006301,00.html)
"THE pilot of an ultra-light pilot received spinal injuries when it crash-landed at Jamestown, in the Mid-North, this morning.
The single-engine aircraft crashed near South Tce, Jamestown, about 350km north of Adelaide, about 11am.
The man, 38, of Booleroo Centre, was taken to Jamestown Hospital with a gash to his leg and back injuries. His injuries are not critical.
A CFS appliance attended the crash site to contain a fuel leak.
The Recreational Sporting Aircraft Association will hold an investigation into the crash."

Sadly looks from the Adel Now photo like if could be this Jabiru 230 from the Jamestown Flying Group (http://www.jamestownairshow.com/)

South Terrace is on the opposite side of town to the airstrip which is on the NE
see south terrace jamestown - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=south+terrace+jamestown&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=66.819788,158.203125&ie=UTF8&ll=-33.203863,138.610854&spn=0.015836,0.038624&t=h&z=15)
South Terrace would be about on base for circuits in the roughly15 knot from the NW today.

Hopefully the pilot will fully recover from his injuries.

[VH-XXX]

Ahhhhh.... the old Jabiru Crop Duster. Desert Flower was right after all.

There is a school based 230 there from memory. Probably did the standard Jab trick and ran off the runway, they have a habbit of doing that.

[Capt Wally]

Is it me or is it that just about all A/C from crop spraying jaba's:} to QF's heaps are falling,crashing,exploding from the sky or whatever at a rate higher than usual or are we all getting paranoid like the press?

Kiss it better to the latest pilot in the spotlight:ok:


CW:)

[Jabawocky]

It is a RAA registered J230.

Boys in Bundy get another order for a new one I guess!

Given it a Good Thumping into the deck. The wing is not exactly a weak structure! :eek:

J

[pw1340]

Jaba,

Can you confirm that it there was not an ag plane involved.

Thanks in advance,

PW

I just re-read the previous posts, please disregard.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Sign of an EARLY WET Wal........

:confused::confused:

[sms777]

Yeah... I am beginning to wonder too! :suspect:
Perhaps it has something to do with the start of the new financial year. The boys want to get one step ahead of the insurance companies before they announce yet another huge profit.
Maybe that's why they been managing to walk away from a totally crumpled wreckage.

It remindes me the script from Air America just before Mel Gibson about to hit the trees and says: " Do not worry... i crash better than anyone i've known " :D:D

:ok:

[Desert Flower]

From Adelaide Now see
AdelaideNow... Ultra-light pilot hurt in crash-landing at Jamestown
"THE pilot of an ultra-light pilot received spinal injuries when it crash-landed at Jamestown, in the Mid-North, this morning.

Oh man, that is one seriously bent Jabiru! And one very lucky guy for getting out with only minor injuries!

DF.

[rcoight]

I believe one of our A/C (RFDS Central) was sent there this arvo to transfer the pilot to ADL.

Broken bones etc., but should be ok.

[Capt Wally]

wowowo talk about this pilot being lucky. First he survives a prang then he gets evaced out in a SE plane ??? He needs to buy a lotto ticket & quick !:E:E


CW:ok:

[lucky P]

:ok:I was extremely lucky, and had the best treatment and care that one could have asked for!!!
Unfortunately the lotto thing wasn't in my favour, but I still have a lot to be thankfull about.

I am sitting at home with both my feet in plaster.
The Jabi will get fixed and we are expecting it back in 6weeks!

Regards and a very big THANK YOU to RFDS!

[lucky P]

:ok:They are fixing the Jabi, no need for a new one.

[Desert Flower]

Wonderful news lucky P - so glad you are okay!

DF.

[PlankBlender]

Good on ya, P, managed to hobble away from that one! :ok:

Care to share what happened so we can learn from it? :)

[lucky P]

:confused:
I have only just completed my RA licence, with a few extra hours due to nav, when I went flying that day.
My plan was to do a few landings / touch & go, fly to Booleroo and back.

I took off in pretty good conditions with a bit of a cross wind and completed the circt, when I was on final, I had an updraft or two, which is common with a light plane like the Jabi, and I decided that I was to high to land.
I applied full throttle, right rudder, lowered the nose but with a stall warning that just kept going. The plane went up like a chopper and it did a 360 degree turn at a hight of about 50feet before it droped the nose straight down. I did not have all day to think about my next move and all I did was pulling the nose up. It came up a second or so, before I hit the grass strip next to the runway ( not on the runway)

I know that the guys at the club found a few witnesses who saw the same picture as I have just told.
I haven't heard the final outcome of the investigation yet, but they suspect thermal/wirley/windshear.
My instructor, who was handling the media and investigators/insurance and a lot more, suggested that we do it again. May-be from a bit higher up, away from the runway!

I don't know if any one could learn anything from this, as the final answer is not out yet. I would certainly want to know as well!

Regards
P

[Jabawocky]

The Jab 230/430 in a go around does not easily stall, it GOES around and from what you describe it may well have been a whirley wind. :uhoh:

A mini or micro tornado is not fun in any light aircraft I imagine. Reminds me of a Cessna on the taxiway in Perth as a Classic 747 enroute to Bombay ...... 747 1 v C172 0, and his Mrs read about it in the paper next day.....him and his mistress on board :ooh:.

As they say get back on the horse!

J:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Lucky, when I saw the pic I thought, "Errrr, someone screwed up big-time there"! You were lucky to survive that - the aeroplane is a mess.

....... but your story puts it in a somewhat different light for me. The 360 degree turn at 50' particularly got my attention.

In 35 years of flying all over Qld I have seen lots of whilly whillies, but have been able to dodge them because the dust they stir up makes them easy to spot. Then ...... a couple of weeks ago, on short final into Dunbar up on Cape York I flew straight through one in the Bonanza - I only saw it a second before I hit it because there was just the faintest whisp of dust at its base. The Bonza is a fair lump of an aeroplane compared to a Jab - but this thing fairly messed with me. For a few seconds the aeroplane was not under control and headed for the ground sideways. A big burst of power and the momentum of the aeroplane took it rapidly through the turbulence and out into clean air. Had I been closer to the ground I may well have featured in my own thread in here.

I can now see how the C172 in WA came to serious grief - and I believe your story!

Beware the whilly whilly - they can bite!

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Without casting doubt on your story I'm thinking...... what would happen if you came in fairly slowly with full flap in the Jab, then you abruptly hit full power which in a Jab would violently pitch the nose upwards. Imagine doing this at the point of an almost developed stall, whilst applying a reasonable amount of rudder. Are we talking some kind of flat spin perhaps with a nose high attitude?

Do you know how far pitched downwards the nose was when the aircraft hit the ground and did you have full flap on for the approach?

[lucky P]

:8
I am learning a lot from this site, specially now with my legs in plaster and nothing else to do!

I was on full flaps when I came in and when I applied full power. I was waiting for all the 'reactions' to happen. Meaning nose up and to the left.( it was a j230) so it was suppose to have enough power to do exactly that.
All it did was bouncing and going up as if I had no controll over rudder or stick. It went into a flat spin and it dropped the nose right down, so much, that I was facing the ground straight out the windscreen.
This picture has upset me a bit, as I knew that this was a bad angle to hit the ground in! I kept on pulling back on the stick to lift the nose, which happened right in the end.

The other part that's not making sense to me, was when I applied full power, the stall warning came on, I lowered the nose, but did not have a lot of room to play in, when I started to pull up again, was when I had that chopper feeling where I went straight up.
I spinned to the left, or anti clocks, and I was wondering afterwards about full rigt rudder, but again it wouldn't have done anything to the stall?
The way I "parked" the Jab was still with full flaps, FULL throttle and full right rudder, but the rudder could have been there from impact??

Thanks VH and if I can put more light on this subject, I will.

P

[PlankBlender]

lucky_P, first of all thanks for sharing your story here -- we can all just learn from the mishaps that happen, sometimes seemingly at random, and to be most well-meaning and prudent pilots :ouch:

My first thought was, gee I'm happy I have at least 800-900 kilos of mass in the air in my Archer when I come in to land, but I was shocked at the Dr's account of events :eek:

How quickly did you apply full power? Was it very sudden or the usual gentle but firm application? Did you apply rudder as a reaction to the yaw, or anticipating it (thereby possibly it being too much too early, causing some of the ensuing behaviour)?

I don't really believe it is possible to stall/spin even a lightie like a Jab with a sudden application of power and full rudder, but I stand to be corrected on that one. From what you're saying about the stall, the theory about the wind throwing you around sounds the most likely IMHO.

In any case, I hope you have a speedy recovery! If you were around Melbourne, I'd offer to take you up for a little flight so you don't miss it too much, but I'm sure there'll be locals who'd gladly do the same:) otherwise, a cold stubbie with a view of the field from the aero club will be at least some consolation for a little while ;)

[lucky P]

PlankBlender, I realy appreciate all the questions and 'what ifs' thats coming out of this, I am the one who needs to learn from this and I lost count on how many times I played this over in my mind.
When I decided that I was going around, it was just a normal call that I have made lots of times before.
It was the gentle firm application of power and all the rest was more on anticipating on what is about to happen after applying power.

The stall warning came on, I lowered the nose, still tracking parralell with the runway and then I started gaining hight and doing my 360 at the same time in an anti clock direction and ended up right next to the runway.
That last few seconds after applying full power was a very bumpy ride and I knew from the start of it that I was in DEEP trouble.
I can't answer your question on too much rudder too early. I don't know.
All I can say is that I was on R rudder spinning left or anti clock which sounds wrong to me.
I am open for any suggestions, but I will also do anything to give this a miss next time. DR said beware the whilly whilly can bite. They sure can and I was in a world of hurt for some time.

[Jabawocky]

Sounds like a whilly whilly bit ya!

I have never found a J430/230 to behave badly when doing a go around like that. Far from it in fact.

J:ok:

[VH-XXX]

In fact FYI, the ONLY way to spin a Jab is with power (usually full). They won't continue a spin without it. I've got nearly a thousand hours in a Jab and they are capable of all sorts of things, good and bad.

Rumour on the street, a new single seat Jab is being developed with 2 cylinder Kawasaki engine!

[Mr Milk]

Lucky,

Good to hear you are ok.
Please be careful of advice you are offered in here. Some of the experts here dont actually have much of a clue and just post here to make themselves feel big.

Hope you are back in the air soon as you can.

[squawk6969]

Mr Milk

Thats about the most naive post I have seen here.

Knowing several of the above posters I think you have undersold them all.:=

SQ:*

[PlankBlender]

XXX, what kind of spin is that with full power, the kind of flat spin lucky describes, or the usual kind of steeper than spiral dive spin? Can you elaborate?

[Deaf]

J160 stall in go round config full flap, full power. Went from nose up at a ridiculous angle to windscreen full of dirt and turning; sorry no great details on angles. Probably greater nose down than the C150 brushup in spins that suddenly was next on the agenda.

Not as developed as the Jabiru video that looks to be over 60deg.

[VH-XXX]

Mr BentPlank, I'm referring to your stock standard in-flight every-day spin, requiring a lot of power to execute. They are pretty much impossible to continue a spin in without power and will continue to spin almost unrecoverably until power is reduced again.

I'm yet to try this spinning 10ft off the ground that Mr Lucky P has managed to unsuccessfully and unluckily execute on this occasion so I'm only trying to theorise on what actually happened. The Jab with full power and flaps lowered and back-stick being pulled on as detailed by the pilot could end in a near vertical nose attitude, hence the ground in the windscreen view afterwards. You're talking about a lot of horses on a machine that climbs at 1,500fpm with 6 cylinders, 1 up with the standard Jabiru nose high attitude. If you haven't flown a Jab, the nose appears very high to the uninitiated. If I'd been watching I'd say that the pilot was trying something that he saw Pip Boorman do at an airshow.

Mr. Milk, just trying to demonstrate here from experience that the weather may not be to blame and the pilot has backed this to an extent with his recounting of the incident. Nothing wrong with a bit of post-crash analysis and brilliant that the pilot is here to discuss it with us, albiet in plaster.

We all make mistakes, some worse than others and sometimes there are other factors that come into it, but on this occasion as I said, congrats to the pilot for being alive to tell us all about it!

[PlankBlender]

XXX, great details, thanks. I'll remember that if I ever get behind the stick of a Jab :E

So basically, this thing is so light and powerful, that when you apply full power at low speed, it'll momentarily think it's a helicopter and try to go straight up, pulling the whole machine up behind the fan :eek: only to realise that it really isn't a blender shortly thereafter, and due to its weight, lack of lift from the actual wings (> max AoA), and probably helped by the application of rudder from the poor pilot trying to figure out in real time what's going on, it'll go over the side and start spinning wildly, all the while not regaining lift because the power keeps pulling it around and disturbing its inbuilt stability?!?!

Did I get that about right? If so, I'm :eek::eek::eek: but fascinated. Aviation is truly amazing in its complexity, and sometimes some little thing you don't know will just end up biting you in the a$s :mad:

BTW, I don't bend planks (not yet, anyway, knock on wood ;)), I blend them by regularly switching stick and rudder for cyclic and collective :ok:

[VH-XXX]

In a manner of words, yes, that sounds pretty much right!

The 230 is very powerful 1 up, remember you're talking about what is ultimately a very light 4 seat aircraft, 1 up, with an unknown amount of fuel. Whilst they are not capable of "hanging" off the propellor, they can climb very steep hanging off the prop and with significant inputs could behave unexpectedly. But then again, point any aircraft at the sky with full power close to the gound any anything could happen!

[Jabawocky]

XXX

Interesting theory that your propose and I guess its possible. Might have to go out and try it, albeit higher up!

In my experience, and mostly dodging skippies :uhoh: of which are in plague proportions up here and around the end of day or early morning, I have done many GA's at full flap. I have never had anything other than the expected hold the stick forward (bit of pressure required but not much) and let her climb out, reduce flap, climb out as normal.

Having said that it is usually with full back trim and good approach speeds etc. Maybe with full trim back and not pushing the stick forward at all, and a boot full of rudder could generate this condition, but you have to get a lot of things wrong all at once.

Be interesting to have lucky p offer some more comments based on our theories.

Still sounds like a whilly whilly got him to me.

J:ok:

[lucky P]

Jabawocky, I am out of comments with all my 40hrs of experience!!!
But all this theories is surely going to light up something.
I have a lot of respect and faith in my instructer, and as I have said earlier, his suggestion was to go up higher and try it again.
I would like to share all these info with him and hear what he says, as he was also involved in the investigation while I was in bed!

His input might add some more facts to my incident.

[Mr Milk]

Hey 6969.

I wonder if you ARE a few of the above posters!
i know your "cousin" mr 7700 posted under a few different names and maybe you, he and xxx are one and the same.:E

just healty speculation before everyone jumps down my throat

[Ratshit]

I wonder if you ARE a few of the above posters!

Geez, don't ya just hate that!

Rat :cool:

PS: I suspect 6969 = FTCS (no not a typo)!

[VH-XXX]

Mr. Milk, there is only 1 VH-XXX. He is I. I am he. He has no cousins here on Prune. VH-XXX knows nobody else on here personally!

Back to topic. After hopping in a Jab yesterday and pointing it at the sky with full flap applied I can confirm that it did what any aircraft would - the expected. It pointed at the sky and then at the ground. If that's what happened only a few feet up it would have put me off flying for a while.

[Jabawocky]

Mr. Milk

I think knowing who many of the posters here are, that you are way off the mark. So lets get back to the Lucky P prang.

J:ok:

[drunkensailor]

I have a feeling Man Milk is infact Rat****:hmm:

[Ultralights]

who cares who knows who,
after looking at the damage, i cant believe the aircraft is flying again! i have been deciding on an aircraft to buy, and it looks like the J230/170 is the way to go, i have seen a few smashed up jabs now, and in every case, the pilot/pax have been relatively unhurt.
basic, powerful, reliable, fast, and built like the proverbial brick sh1thouse, and aussie made to boot!

how many GA aircraft would be flying in 6 weeks after a crash like this?
http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/forum/attachments/incidents-accidents/6327d1221209941-pilot-hurt-crash-landing-planepic.jpg

[the wizard of auz]

Beware the whilly whilly - they can bite!
I will second that. C208 at 3800kg and in the approach configuration with 20Deg flap, 800ftlbs torque and 100knots. I flew into a willy willy and came as close to crashing an airplane as I ever have. the aircraft stalled one wing, dropped sharply to the left and sunk at a rate that caught me by surprise, followed by a vertical ascent at nearly 2000fpm for a couple of seconds, then a sharp descent at nearly 4000fpm. I used power right up until I was torque limited to arrest the descent, and thank god to this day I had 100 feet left between me and the ground when it all ended. If I had of been closer to the ground, it would have ended in tears. (a few of the pax were close as it was).
I have been mustering for quite a few hours and years, and all over the country in almost every condition I could possibly imagine and have flown through hundreds of Willy willys, Micro bursts, under thunderstorms while running for home, and have never experienced anything like that before......or since.
I think the AoA on the left wing was exceeded due to the air coming from directly underneath the wing in the localized airflow in the willy and stalled, then as the disturbance moved along the aircraft, it moved to a full down draft, Etc. I think it was moving from a left quartering tail area when I hit it and it moved with me for a while. localized airflow did all sorts of things as well as getting monstrous sink in a more wider area.
They certainly can bite, and I stay as far away from them as I can now. I had my big scare. :eek: I certainly wouldn't like to have encountered anything like that in a Jab.