Express Freighters Australia in a mess

[QF737]

I hear all is not well within the Express Freighters Australia (EFA) camp, for those of you who don’t know EFA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas it was set up to operate the 737 freighters that have replaced the 727 freighters that fly with Australian Air Express (AAE) painted on them.

EFA is run by a junior QF manager who made himself very unpopular when dealing with QF pilots and had to be moved somewhere, well so the story goes, so he was moved to EFA.

EFA pilots are paid about half the wage of QF 737 pilots. Another example of QF screwing guys and putting them on an AWA, when an agreement could not be reached with QF pilots to operate the 737 freighter.

Now, I am only hearing second hand some of the problems there, so it would be interesting to hear first hand from someone within?

What I have heard to name a few things:

Ongoing Maintenance problems with all aircraft.
Captains expected ignore problems or forced to take a “managers” view of a MEL.
I’m told there was an air return after a Captain was intimidated during several telephone calls into taking an aircraft, the F/O was not happy about going in the first place.
Sounds like CASA need to look at this little bit of the QF operation. There have been several air returns caused by ongoing problems.
Not enough crew, pilots are asked to work on days off to cover flying.
Back of the clock(BOC) duty is rostered to the limit and pilots are asked to extend.
5 sector BOC being rostered, with unrealistic times, anyone who complains is given a cash payment to shut up and do it.
5 sector BOC, pilots asked to extend when it runs late.
Pilots are asked to extend even before the a/c departs.
Ongoing noise problems in hotels, causing rest issues; catering & transport problems.
Because word is out, they are having a problem getting experienced captains and have had to employ some very low time first officers.
Just when the guys thought it could not get any worse it has! They are now being rostered to pax to and from Perth on the Freighter !! rather than a business class seat on a QF aircraft.
High staff turnover, 4 Captains, all of them stayed less than 12 months + a couple of f/o’s have gone

There has been a recent change of Chief Pilot, from the QF CP (who used to look after it) and from what I hear he is turning a blind eye to this mess, for a smart guy, sounds like he is not being vey smart in this case, it will come back to bite him.

So any comments from those within?? Or has that junior QF manager managed to intimidate everyone? Methinks that might be the case, lets see what sort of response we get!

[Jabawocky]

5 sector BOC being rostered, with unrealistic times, anyone who complains is given a cash payment to shut up and do it.

Sounds a lot like an example of one of the Thailand based LCC's that had a few big prangs in recent years.:eek:

If you have FACTS, go to CASA.

[3 Holer]

I’m told there was an air return after a Captain was intimidated during several telephone calls into taking an aircraft, the F/O was not happy about going in the first place.
Back of the clock(BOC) duty is rostered to the limit and pilots are asked to extend.
5 sector BOC being rostered, with unrealistic times, anyone who complains is given a cash payment to shut up and do it.
5 sector BOC, pilots asked to extend when it runs late.
Pilots are asked to extend even before the a/c departs.


I would suggest a good CRM course and a detailed read of the CAO 48 Exemption. ;)

[tasdevil.f27]

Also hear the 737's are giving a bit of grief as well, 727 was in Tassie the other night due to problems with other aircraft. Miss the old girls :(

[framer]

Quite a passionate post for someone who isn't affected by how this company runs. Sure you're not doing those BOC's yourself there QF737?

[Wili]

As an 'insider' I can say that QF737 has got it pretty close to the mark. The manipulation of the rules by the manager is quite alarming.

[Stationair8]

If it looks like pooh,
Tastes like pooh,
Probably is pooh!!!

You can bet that Casa they will be right on to it sometime!

[Jabawocky]

If you are an insider, grow some testicles and go to CASA.

If you can not effect change from within, bring in the regulator.

If you do not and something goes pear shaped, how will you sleep at night knowing you may have made a difference.

J

[slim]

Spot on Jaba. If the worst happens and someone could have done something to bring it to the attention of CASA it would be hard to live with one's self. The Gerbil is obviously still the only guy that thinks the Gerbil is a good manager.:rolleyes:

[Jabawocky]

Will one of you lot with the FACTS report it this week coming and then report back to the PPRUNE Safety Board with the results of your work!

Then I won't have to worry about my freight any more;)

J

[blow.n.gasket]

This smacks of GA in jets,
apologies to all the well run GA operators.

[dodgybrothers]

........like jetstar and virgin

[teresa green]

If you have facts GO TO YOUR UNION. NOW! Then try CASA, though you would probably have more success going to the "Winnie the Pooh" society.

[60 & below]

:O Wow I dont know who you have been talking to but night freight is not for everyone. As an insider a few comments from one persons point of view.
EFA is run by a junior QF manager who made himself very unpopular when dealing with QF pilots.
I cant comment as I was not there, How often have you seen a GM of a Airline take the time to take your calls, EFA does. I can say my experience with the GM has been a good one.
EFA pilots are paid about half the wage of QF 737 pilots
Sure not what I was used to when operating pax ops but it sure is not half,
Pay rise on the way (I will cross my fingers)
Ongoing Maintenance problems with all aircraft.
These Aircraft are high time and have been looked after outside the QF system for the last 5 yrs They need some TLC it may take some time for them to get back on track.
Captains expected ignore problems or forced to take a “managers” view of a MEL.
This is not my experience, if this was happening remember the Capt & Fo have the last word say NO.
I’m told there was an air return after a Captain was intimidated during several telephone calls into taking an aircraft, the F/O was not happy about going in the first place.
There have only been 3 air returns that I am aware of,
1 Changed taf conditions at Dest.
2. Door light on Dept
3. Minor problem with no Enginners at Dest crew decided to return.
All happened airbourne not pre departure.
Not enough crew, pilots are asked to work on days off to cover flying.
Worldwide the standard formula is approx 5 crew per AC we have this remembering we only operate mostly at night and not the larger daylight hours. Working on days off, Say No or grab the extra payment and Run.
Back of the clock(BOC) duty is rostered to the limit and pilots are asked to extend.
Sorry guys I dont see it. you either sign on between 1800 - 1900 and sign off between 0000 - 0300 or Sign on between 0000- 0400 and sign off around 0600.
The main exception is for the next few months a Perth return 0300 - 1245.
5 sector BOC
Quite within limits. Company is no longer blocking these duties.
Pilots are asked to extend even before the a/c departs.
I can only comment on my experience and I have not been asked.
Ongoing noise problems in hotels, causing rest issues; catering & transport problems.
1. Sometimes 2. Sometimes 3. We are allways feed but sure mix it up
4. Cairns can be a problem.
Because word is out, they are having a problem getting experienced captains and have had to employ some very low time first officers.
My personal favorite.
90% of the Captains are 10 to 15,000 hour pilots with Command time on B747 B777 B767 B737. The last pilot hired is a Senior Check and Training Captain from Qantas mainline who just retired and joined us.
With some of the most experienced training captians you will find in the industry.
Fo's sure a lot of them are low time they do a great job. All the major Airlines are hiring low time pilots as there is a current shortage of 2000 hr applicants.
Pax to and from Perth on the Freighter
To my knowledge this has happened once.
Since I have joined all my pax flights have been in QF Buss class including paxing to Perth.
High staff turnover, 4 Captains, all of them stayed less than 12 months + a couple of f/o’s have gone
My next favorite.
Most of the Captains were commuters and found a position in their home port. The last Capt to leave has left for a 777 Command (wouldnt you go?) Fo's a lot are being scooped up by QF as we are trained and checked to the QF standard.


Enjoy as life is short:D

[Capt Claret]

The last Capt to leave has left for a 777 Command

That wouldn't be Captain Dump would it? :E

From what I hear, via the Townsville Refueller, the font of all knowledge, most of the allegations on this thread are surprisingly accurate.

[galdian]

Just interested now that CC and CW have both entered the frey (speak about "fonts of all knowledge!" :D) it seems as if - 60 and below - is the only poster marching to a different beat.

Whilst "an insider" I am unsure what his (her??..being politically correct) involvement is.

So: is everyone else wrong/60 has had a 'dream' run with the operation/they're management or a stooge/ etc etc????

Must say what little I've heard indicates the worst (or equal worst) CA pay of $120,000/year and that whilst maybe tenuously part of the QF group the mentality, approach and standards do not reflect well on QF.

Seems like, for whatever difficulties they have, if you have a burning need/desire to do night freight in 73's then Toll are the way to go!

Comments from anyone??? :ok: :eek: ;) :ugh: :=

[sthaussiepilot]

Perhaps naive but, whats wrong with Australian Air Express??? I know 2 pilots that work freight (obviously) with them and have no real major issues....

[BAE146]

I reckon Miffy will be sitting back up there in DRW and laughing his little box off !!!!!!!:E

[sthaussiepilot]

... oh god... what have I done.... :}:oh:

[Capt Claret]

Why would Miffy be laughing? :confused:

[jack red]

smithy busted his gutz to get that aae contract for NJS....... qantas undercut the price with EFA. i think they call it KARMA.............i consider it a bit of a joke too.............but not laughing as much as fat boy!

[TOGATap]

KARMA

Wasn't she a female Captain on the B727 with NJS doing the AAE contract?

She was with Ansett on the 727 then the A320, lovely lady......with that big Yank car in Brissy :hmm:

Is that the Karma to which you refer ? :ugh:

[3 Holer]

That was KAMMA not karma.

I think the "karma" jack is referring to is the sh*t QF have got themselves into with these 737s when they had a perfectly good ship in the 727.

[TOGATap]

thanks, you might be right.

:*

[nomorecatering]

Who looks ater recruiting, I've had aferret around the net but couldnt find anything.

What hrs are they looking for?

[TOGATap]

Hmmmm, now Captain Dump, sounds like there is a story there ?

I guesss that would have to be Daffy? and he has got himself into some sort of strife ? again! :D

[TOGATap]

come on!

someone must know what's behind the dump story?

[RENURPP]

Maybe the 737 had a dump on the apron with some assistance?? :eek:
Some one not happy with the situation :ooh: had the ****s maybe :confused:

[VH-YES]

Hey TOGATap

Quote - Hmmmm, now Captain Dump, sounds like there is a story there ?

I guesss that would have to be Daffy? and he has got himself into some sort of strife ? again! :D

Didn't TD get into VA? I was told last week he did? :ugh:

;)

[splashback]

After waiting over an hour to have toilet emptied due to a blue fluid leak and a Mel requirement. Capt Dump dropped toilet contents on Bne freight apron also wearing some himself. This was his last flight---off to fly 777`s.

[Mr Maverick]

What ever will the VOz pax think if they see a repeat dunny spit at the gate???? :ooh:

[Statorblade]

Well that was short and sweet for TD then, he only joined EFA late last year,

Was he dumped ? :E

[Ref + 10]

I absolutely loved the fact that the story about "dump" getting a fair share of the "load" was told by a guy name splashback!!! Did you create that username especially or was it just a darn funny coincidence??

[TOGATap]

VH-YES, word in SIN is yes Daffy is off to fly the 777 again with V Australia.

[Tempo]

"Pilots asked to extend before the flight departs"

What is wrong with that?? The TOD has commenced......aircraft delayed (engineering/weather etc. etc) so the logical decision is to extend. If the pilots do not want to extend then they do not have to. Quite simple really This happens all the time.

[TOGATap]

["Pilots asked to extend before the flight departs"

What is wrong with that?? The TOD has commenced......aircraft delayed (engineering/weather etc. etc) so the logical decision is to extend. If the pilots do not want to extend then they do not have to. Quite simple really This happens all the time.]

Well, it would be interesting to hear some different ideas on this one, my understanding, working for a couple of different airlines has always been, if you have a probelem at an outport you use that extension to get home.

You don't use it before the aircraft takes off for the first time (because the inbound a/c arrives late) and you don't use it if you are departing from or passing through a port where pilots are based ?

The wording on extensions usually includes words like "operationally necessary" etc

It should be a last resort.

It seems from the original post that started this thread, that rosters were constructed having 5 sectors and they were also at the limit for duty time with turn around times that wouldn't work, so the only way it could be done was for the crew to extend?

[hongkongfooey]

TOGA, have worked for 4 airlines and its always the same :
Crew and CASA/CAA interpretation is use it to get home.
Crewing interpretation is use it whenever it suits them, its up to the crew to say " No ! "

[nomorecatering]

Splashback,

Are sure the story about captain dump is true. For it would make a mess of biblical proportions. Addditionally, if it was on a 73, he would have to be standing right under the dump valve, even if it was a nose lav, it would be nigh on impossible to get away unscathed.

I should know, I did 7000+ toilet dumps in a previous life............and only 2, um........accidents.

[TOGATap]

It happened, according to a Qantas engineer on duty that night, so I was told via a good source.

Well Capt Dump, care to comment ?

That is, if you are not too busy with your 777 :eek:

Was there any Splashback ???????????????????????? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Centaurus]

The RAAF did toilet dumps on the flight strips at many aerodromes around Australia in the Convair 440 Metropolitan of the VIP squadron based at Canberra in the Sixties. The technique was to taxi to the nearest runway flight strip after dumping the VIP passengers to do their business in the local town.

The 440 would then stop at 90 degrees to the strip direction and ever so slowly back up in reverse pitch until the tail end was over the grass. The airman who lost the toss would then descend the stairs with a bucket of water and rags (to clean himself after the deed was done) and wait near the tail.

The pilot would then pressurise the aircraft and select idle reverse thrust. This stopped the slipstream from blowing over the airmen who would then open the toilet hatch under the fuselage and pull the chain.

Under significant pressure (aircraft pressurised, remember?), the stuff would be ejected all over the grass with inevitably some wafting over the airmen.

That done, the airman would do up the catch and wait for the pilot to unpressurise and lower the stairs. Meanwhile he would wash up in the bucket.
The Convair was then taxiied to the parking area on the tarmac and the crew went to the pub. All around Australia, little green patches would spring up on the flight strips where the Convair had done it's business. :ok:

[TOGATap]

Centaurus (http://www.pprune.org/members/11325-centaurus) Thanks for all the detail..... !! :rolleyes:

[TOGATap]

Feel free to add,I didn't delete my posts, so looks like I have been :mad:

Yes, you have got the correct person, so what have you heard?

[B772]

I was not aware TD had left SQ, anyone know why ?

[By George]

Retired at age 60 before the limit was changed to 62

[Heavy Cargo]

Was rostered to fly VH-VLH out for C check then bring back to OZ ? Is it coming back for you guys ?

[Skystar320]

good to hear Heavy, but what does it have to do with Express Freighters?

[galdian]

so I'm not seeing things that aren't there!

Numerous posts from various contributors deleted - none of which I saw as bad, self included - so why??

I know the moderators will reply to this post by personal email saying "don't question on Pprune" BUT it is one thing to knock off an offensive individual, another to censor multiple Ppruners!

So what Moderator has been pissed off?? :) And why?? ;)

[inxs]

...oh yeah sure, CASA will fix it.....:rolleyes:
Don't underestimate the power of QF ...

[Tidbinbilla]

Come on guys. This is supposed to be about Express Freighters. Most of the last page has been between guys who obviously know each other, asking questions about other pilots.

It's more appropriate to continue that by PM or by commencing a thread in "Where are they now", rather than taking this thread off topic.:)

[VH-YES]

I agree with PCP below,

QF737 why?

:=