View Full Version : American MD80 taxied 2 slowly for management, Capt. suspended

10th Sep 2008, 18:10
Read the full article here.. (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=40c8b7d4&opt=0)

Fortunately we still have a pilot's advocate as a chief..

10th Sep 2008, 18:47
Please let us know if Captain O is ever involved in a parking-lot accident!!!:E

Tango and Cash
10th Sep 2008, 19:31
Just SLF here, but can someone explain to me why Captain O is not the one being suspended here--isn't he the one who violated regs by using his cell phone while taxiing?

Taxiing too slow--give me a break! MD-80, full of pax, possibly tankering fuel, one engine shut down to save $$$, not exactly a go-kart on the ground to begin with... take your time and get me to the gate in one piece, thanks.

10th Sep 2008, 20:01
Taxiing slowly, and getting time off for doing it, is a time honored tradition at contract time. Now, the pilots will feel empowered by the union's latest defiant pronouncement and at least one clown will find a way to get fired. This brave soul will wrap himself in the union mantle and the union will make some contractual concession to the company to get his job back.

It's all part of the drill...

Pugilistic Animus
10th Sep 2008, 20:10
I'm very tired:zzz:

10th Sep 2008, 20:44
FAA can stand for F#$% American Airlines.


you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk.

and the management pilot, using his cell phone in a critical phase of flight should lose his ATP ticket.

Final 3 Greens
10th Sep 2008, 23:03
and the management pilot, using his cell phone in a critical phase of flight should lose his ATP ticket.

No wonder he thought the S80 was going too slowly and was frightened, the poor dear must have been woriied about stalling.

11th Sep 2008, 02:34
Can't wait until 411A joins this party! And I'm sure he'll have some silly anecdote from the 60's that won't even pertain to this, and of course the Tristar will be mentioned.

Sorry Dan, no TriStar, this time.

However, when I checked out on the B707 in the early seventies, my PanAmerican instructor mentioned that you can always tell a new Captain, as they tend to be rather careful with taxiing.
He also mentioned...'keep it that way if you know what's good for you.'
And yes, we did a last minute configuration check, then as well

you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk.

About sums it up.:ok:

11th Sep 2008, 03:16
you shouldn't taxi faster than a man can walk

Which man?

11th Sep 2008, 03:18
Not much about the current regime running American Airlines involves Logic.

AA may not have gotten along with their employees in the past, but both sides grudgingly acknowledged that the other side was good at their jobs.

Now the management running the flight department of AA is frighteningly out of touch with reality, and quite possibly incompetent. The large number of fines from the FAA, repeated stand downs of the largest fleet etc, seam to bear that out. We have come a long way in the WRONG direction from the airline that set the record for the most consecutive operations (movements) without a fatality from May 1979 to December 1995. Somewhere recently the FARS became a GOAL instead of a Limit. And therein lies much of the problems.

The idea that slowly crossing a DEPARTURE runway might put passengers at risk is beyond belief. A couple of weeks ago Captain H. (Big muckety muck of flight) put out a "furlough mitigation proposal" that involved everyone left on the list flying MORE hours (Exactly the opposite of how you mitigate furloughs). The baldfaced lies to our face are just beyond belief.


bugg smasher
11th Sep 2008, 03:51
Taxiing slowly, and getting time off for doing it, is a time honored tradition at contract time. Now, the pilots will feel empowered by the union's latest defiant pronouncement and at least one clown will find a way to get fired. This brave soul will wrap himself in the union mantle and the union will make some contractual concession to the company to get his job back.

It's all part of the drill..

Probably the most astute post so far. I've been recently stuck behind AA jets at LAX and JFK taxiing at snail's pace. Point taken, we get it. The controllers are barely able to restrain themselves. We're trying to make a schedule work so we can get paid, and you guys insist on involving us in your intra-company dispute, one that has nothing to do with us.

I sympathize, really, but do you have to jam the entire national airspace system just to prove your point? Is there not another way?

11th Sep 2008, 03:53
AirBubba are you having a go on taxi speeds or am I reading your post wrong? Doing it every day I have no problem here in Europe with them,Being asked 'ready for an imeditate' and then taking your time. Hence putting other people under pressure I find this should be showed more interest in this sort of thing than what is posted. Sorry if i'm wrong in understanding of your post, Our SOP's is walking pace, And taking the runway and taxing to stand bearing in mind walking pace from other aircarft taking off before us.

West Coast
11th Sep 2008, 04:03
I've been recently stuck behind AA jets at LAX and JFK taxiing at snail's pace

Add SFO and DEN to the list in the past week or so. To the point in DEN that the controller asked him if he could taxi and faster. Said yes and continued at a snails pace.

We'll know for sure when the start doing transcons at 16,000 as legend would have it at UA during the summer of love.

11th Sep 2008, 04:07
In the time ive posted I didnt notice the local dispute surfacing, Sorry I'm not trying to be one sided.Follow the taxing rules in different SOP, I think it is a management problem to sortout with the FAA and all to annoying just do your job.Hopefully someone will se sense!

kick the tires
11th Sep 2008, 06:21
Whats all this about 'walking pace'? You guys having a bath? (rhymes with laugh) :ok:

We let the aircraft accelerate to 30 kts and then brake to 10 kts. (taxiway permitting of course!)

Places like BCN, AMS, MAD have an 8 mile taxi route, surely you guys dont taxi at a walking pace ALL the time?? :)

11th Sep 2008, 06:33
Surprising that 411A (and myself) survived flying the 707 with non-existant CRM basics and lack of SOP for taxi speeds.
Happy contrails (and smoking rubber on taxiways)

11th Sep 2008, 06:40
LAX captain is he a member of a union? If he is, what his union has to say about this?

11th Sep 2008, 06:45
I posted taxi at a speed that a man can walk.

I've seen 10 knots as max taxi speed (per ops manual) for planes with INS readouts...5 knots in the gate area.

30 knots is a bit fast...especially with FA's in the back...have to stop? all would fall down and YOU have paperwork...I HATE PAPERWORK.

Southwest taxis too fast. I've even heard someone call V1 while taxiing!

the industry is falling apart...and just to remind people, it was a management pilot that crashed an american md80 at little rock. get my drift?

Romeo India Xray
11th Sep 2008, 07:38
Couldnt resist! Isn't SOP in RYR to accel to V1 then brake to 80 kts?

Serious note though - is there not a mechanism to bring action against the Mgmnt pilot. I would have thought it was an MORable event in violation of the terms of the AOC (do you guys call it an AOC in the USA?). A quiet word to the FAA is not the same thing as putting the wheels in motion and while management may hate a "work to rule" if indeed this was, there is simply no reason to bring action for it - sort the :mad: problem out at root cause.


11th Sep 2008, 07:40
...and just to remind people, it was a management pilot that crashed an american md80 at little rock. get my drift?
Both fatigue and cockpit authority gradient were cited as contributing factors in the report.
the industry is falling apart
Yep. Expediency seems to have some currency in the cockpit. Before retiring I had noticed a significant slackness in SOPs from the usual crispness I was used to.

High taxi speeds, (above 30kts), along with the obvious risks, result in high bead temperatures, especially at high weights, which, over time, can lead to tire failure. Damage from extremely high bead temperatures, like ply delamination, is not easily diagnosed by visual inspection. Goodyear published a paper years ago showing a direct relationship between taxi-speed and bead (not internal tire) temperature. The graphs are revealing.

We've all seen "time-building" taxiing before. Unless one is in the cockpit, we don't know the real reason so unless it's a safety issue, (incursion, etc), the benefit of the doubt is the only acceptable response. The action on the part of the checkpilot reveals some very serious disconnects and underlying power-struggles at American which have clearly found expression in the cockpit, on the taxiways and, one wonders, on the runway as well? Regardless - pretty poor show in not sorting it out in other, equally effective but more discrete ways.

11th Sep 2008, 09:54
ANZ Ops say that an aircraft can't taxi faster than 5 knots until entering the maneouvering area. i think..

If the walking man is Chuck Norris, then we're all screwed! hah.

kick the tires
11th Sep 2008, 09:58
High taxi speeds, (above 30kts), along with the obvious risks, result in high bead temperatures,

Not sure what you are referring to with 'bead temp', but 30kts isn't too fast when you have a 2 mile straight line to taxi along!

The braking technique, 30 to 10kts, is an airbus recommended technique and works very well. The procedure came about with carbon brakes whereby brake wear is primarily determined by the number of applications. Less wear takes place once the brakes are at a reasonable temperature and this is achieved by the above technique.

For the sceptics, I dont advocate 30 kts on a twisty, bumpy taxi way, and believe it or not, we even consider the cabin crew when we taxi!! :ok:

11th Sep 2008, 11:03
As SLF, whatever the rights and wrongs of this incident, what about the pilot who used his mobile to report the incident?

There are threads galore on this forum about using mobiles on a plane. Passengers are (rightly) removed from aircraft for doing so.

And yet here is someone who should know better who is quite blatantly breaking the rules. Why should pax not use mobiles if pilots can?

I hate mobiles and have never used one on, or near, a plane. But the actions of this guy surely undermine the argument that they can be dangerous on a plane. :confused:

11th Sep 2008, 13:18
The really funny thing, is both aircraft in question did not have a gate waiting for them.

So the chief pilot involved who used his cellphone, was rushing, just so that he could go sit somewhere waiting for a gate! That is something pax REALLY hate. As long as the airplane is moving they feel like they are still getting somewhere, but to sit in a penalty box waiting for a gate drives em CRAZY!

In January we were told by management to SLOW DOWN. As an airline we were taxiing too fast. So go figure.

So far, we have learned that the chief pilot in question was a menace to public safety, AND was not doing a good job to serve his own passengers.


11th Sep 2008, 15:06
I think if I was the LAX pilot, my response to it all would have been to file a formal complaint with the FAA about breach of safety by the management pilot. Probably a career-limiting move though, so it's a good job it wasn't me.

Man in glass cockpit shouldn't throw stones...

11th Sep 2008, 16:52
If the nose comes up when you pull back, you're taxiing too fast.

11th Sep 2008, 17:46
Taxi at walking speed is what I used to teach in piston singles to new students who were still trying to turn on the ground with the yoke, were not used to brake asymmetry, and had never had wings and wingtips to worry about. I agree, it may be a bit over the top when you have to taxi 10,000 feet for takeoff, five times a day, and on a schedule in a jet. More than 5 knots but less than V1 sounds like a good rule of thumb!:ok:

11th Sep 2008, 22:39
If I may pop my head up and ask - as frequent AA SLF always trying to gain a better understanding of what goes on up front - what is the benefit of taxiing slowly?

Apologies if I shouldn't be asking questions here.

11th Sep 2008, 23:31
(Tongue partly in cheek.)
Benefit of taxiing slowly? Takes longer to get there!

Seriously though, there are several situations where taxiing slowly is advised.
On icy or contaminated surfaces.
To provide separation from aircraft ahead to avoid blowback and refreeze of snow or other precip.
Near other aircraft or obstructions.
In poor visibility.
Etc, etc.

In other words, when common sense and good airmanship indicate.

Of course there have been some stories of crew taxiing slowly to send a message to management on a particular issue. ;)

Loose rivets
12th Sep 2008, 01:24
Heck, if I'd had someone taxiing in front of me at 5mph, I would have tried to overtake them on the first bend.:E

Now that the GPS will tell us our ground speed, surely, there must be a reasonable maximum speed for a given type. Get behind a slower type, and despite one's enthusiasm, that would be the new datum.

And as for the phone. Try offering to taxi for a skipper going back to the pan while pouring then drinking a double double scotch, and being told to keep yer hands off the tiller when he veered to the edge. CRM? Dodging the captain's fist was CRM in those days. And that was one of the London airports and a shiny new jet. A mere phone call seems fairly innocuous apart from the attitude of the man doing it in the first place.

12th Sep 2008, 02:08
" as frequent AA SLF always trying to gain a better understanding of what goes on up front - what is the benefit of taxiing slowly?

From the driver seat up front, despite having nearly totally flat terrain for 2KM in every direction, when you couple checklists, radio communications, performance data checks, generally poor visibility aft of your shoulders, time zone changes and fatigue, I still amazed when I find myself suddenly near a B747-400 or A340-600 and thinking to myself "where it the **** did he come from? "

12th Sep 2008, 04:04
>> Man in glass cockpit shouldn't throw stones...


The management pilot should be written up for use of a mobile phone whilst in control of an aircraft. Was he taxiing it at the time?

The Captain taxiing slowly could have had any number of reasons he was taxiing slow. It seems to me that the management pilot is looking to kiss some a$$ to try and either get a promotion or a pay rise. :rolleyes:

ECAM Actions.

12th Sep 2008, 19:42
Aircraft must have better rubber these days. In the 70s, and 80s, you sure didn't want to be taxiing at 30kts out to the "Reef" Runway at PHNL. You'd blow all the tires on take-off. We were "limited" to 15kts on the way out there.

13th Sep 2008, 03:06
If I may pop my head up and ask - as frequent AA SLF always trying to gain a better understanding of what goes on up front - what is the benefit of taxiing slowly?

Apologies if I shouldn't be asking questions here.

Reply -

In this case the gate was occupied. It's like racing to a red light, what's the point since you'll have to wait anyway?

13th Sep 2008, 04:22
First off, management pilots, sometimes known as chief pilots, mainly do paperwork. there are two kinds of pilots, some are good at flying and rotten at paperwork, others are great at paperwork and rotten are flying...rarely do you have both...though some are rotten at paperwork and flying!


why taxi slow?

flight attendants might fall down if you taxi too fast and then suddenly have to stop! lots of paperwork involved, ergo a good pilot doesn't taxi fast.

airplanes are quite good at turning in the sky...on the ground they are just fair.

long taxis at high speeds with frequent braking can increase the heat of the tires and the brakes...on takeoff the brakes might not be cool enough for a maximum effort aborted (rejected) takeoff. cool brakes are good, hot brakes are bad. using alot of brakes on landing and taxi in, can still effect the next takeoff if it is soon after landing. good pilots know this.

and the big one...IF YOU TAXI FAST and can't stop in time to avoid a collision, you might be dead. especially while crossing a runway...though sometimes ATC makes you "expedite" across the runway to make traffic flow.

And sometimes pilots are pissed off about having a pay cut of 50percent for 7 years and want to make mangement suffer.

BUT, American, once a great airline, has mangement / labor problems. shame on management!

13th Sep 2008, 05:57
The braking technique, 30 to 10kts, is an airbus recommended technique and works very well

Maybe for the individual craft. Such "techniques" have been found to be the major reason leading to unnecessary road traffic jams.
I hate to taxi behind such a technician, just imagine a few busses in line doing this stunt each one at its preferred moment.
" ... catering: please have supplementary sick-bags for uplift at our destination ... "

14th Sep 2008, 04:52
Wino is correct. We've been told to be careful taxiing, as flight attendants have had some injuries during taxi w/i the last year. Further, management has attempted to counter union information, by making it sound that the Captain actually caused a safety hazard. Apparently, an aircraft was cleared into position and hold (line up and wait), and the management Captain (#2 to be cleared to cross the runway) claims his crew and passenger's safety was compromised. They're hanging their hat on the supposed violation of the runway incursion statement in our FOM.

It's all quite silly, as we're NOW supposed to be responsible for the aircraft BEHIND us!! Yeah right- other than not blowing them too hard w/ thrust - I think not. If Captain Osborne (mngmnt) felt his crew/pax were in danger, he should have held short and told tower. Instead, he violates a Federal Aviation Regulation, and calls his fellow chief pilots, who show up at the other Captain's gate and remove him from his sequence.

As mentioned- during contract negotations- hostages WILL be taken.
This is definitely one. They continue to attempt a diversion/depletion of APA's attention and resources and will- with hostage taking and violating contractual provisions that we already own, hoping union concessions will follow in order to get them back.

Typical immoral, union-busting management techniques.

So far, APA is NOT interested in negotiating against ourself. That's a good thing.


14th Sep 2008, 05:10
Typical immoral, union-busting management techniques.

That's a good thing.

Could well be...:}

One wonders...is the APA still looking for that 53% increase?:ugh:

14th Sep 2008, 08:35
The most important word is APPROPRIATE. There all sorts of considerations that affect "appropriate" including cabin crew, aircraft weight, surface conditions, congestion, taxiway width / camber, distance to taxi, carbon or steel brakes? So taxiing at anywhere from 5 knots to around 30 knots could be appropriate under varying circumstances. Turning off a cold, wet HST scares the hell out of me .... aircraft tyres are designed for going in straight lines and not around corners!

FCTM states: "The appropriate taxi speed depends on turn radius and surface
condition.Taxi speed should be closely monitored during taxi out, particularly when the
active runway is some distance from the departure gate. Normal taxi speed is
approximately 20 knots, adjusted for conditions. On long straight taxi routes,
speeds up to 30 knots are acceptable, however at speeds greater than 20 knots use
caution when using the nose wheel steering tiller to avoid overcontrolling the nose
wheels. When approaching a turn, speed should be slowed to an appropriate speed
for conditions. On a dry surface, use approximately 10 knots for turn angles
greater than those typically required for high speed runway turnoffs.
Note: High taxi speed combined with heavy gross weight and a long taxi distance
can result in tire sidewall overheating. At maximum weights with taxiing
distances greater than 4500 meters, use 20 knots as maximum taxi speed."

14th Sep 2008, 15:48
I was originally taught that taxi speed varies exponentially as one's distance from the CFI's office!

It all depends on the situation but I have never seen the point of fast taxi speeds when you are running early. Also sensible taxi speeds give you more thinking time.

As a passenger I have always said I can tell a lot about the pilot by the way in which the a/c is taxied to the holding point.

14th Sep 2008, 21:33
"increase"? well...at least you didn't refer to it as a "raise".

We are looking for our 1992 wages, adjusted for inflation- period.

15th Sep 2008, 00:53
So, after the American Airlines pilots took massive pay cuts....as did most airline pilots in the U.S. (post 9-11).... management took massive pay increases and bonuses.

So, before the pay cuts, a guy was making, say, $100,000 U.S.D. per year. Next, he takes a 35% pay cut. That drops him down to $65,000 U.S.D. per year.

Seeing management get massive compensation as a reward for convincing APA that the pay cuts were necessary for the company to survive, the pilots demand a 53.8% pay increase. This brings them back to $100,000 U.S.D. per year.

Management tells the press that the militant union pukes are going to ruin the company by demanding a 53% pay increase. Then, they (management) give themselves another bonus for being so clever with the media.

It's a never-ending cycle...broken only by solidarity among the union ranks.

Many refer to union members as 'thugs'....but, remember the first worker violence in this country (big business vs. organized labor) was with Henry Ford. As an assembly line worker, all you had to do was dream of a union, and Henry would have his 'guards' break both your legs. (No kidding!!!)

Fly safe,


15th Sep 2008, 09:39
A bit off topic, but always had a chuckle at the ATC call: (after a brief hold on a taxiway) "Ryanair xxxx after the KLM 737 has taxied out you are cleared to hurtle on to stand 1".

The aircraft in question had done a good Alonso impression until asked to hold for his stand. (Sorry, this wan't Ryanair bashing, just funny...)

15th Sep 2008, 12:23
I wish APA would post the wages the CEO of American got in 1992 and what he gets now, and the percentage change.

I would put circa 1992 as the END of the good old days of airline flying.

What happened about then to screw things up? ( approx time of first gulf war, approx start of clinton presidency,aprox rise of frank lorenzo,aprox major strike at eastern)

15th Sep 2008, 13:04
Here you go:



‘Inflation has steadily eroded our purchasing power’

Fort Worth, Texas (October 23, 2007)—The Allied Pilots Association (APA),
representing the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines (NYSE: AMR), presented a pay
proposal to the carrier’s management today that is designed to restore the pilots’ lost
purchasing power.
Current American Airlines pilot pay rates are slightly lower than what they were
in 1992, with inflation eroding the pilots’ purchasing power by more than 33 percent
since that time. APA’s proposal calls for adjusting current pay rates to account for post-
1992 annual inflation, as reflected by the Consumer Price Index.
American Airlines management rejected an earlier pay proposal APA’s previous
leadership made in May. Shortly thereafter, the membership elected its current national
officers by the widest margin and with the largest voter turnout in APA history. Upon
taking office, the newly elected leadership commissioned a survey of the membership
regarding the ongoing contract negotiations with American Airlines management.
“Our pilots were unequivocal in our recently concluded membership survey—it’s
time to restore their purchasing power,” said APA President Captain Lloyd Hill.
“Moreover, that erosion accelerated dramatically for our pilots and their families with the
deep concessions we made beginning in 2003.”
Hill pointed out that the majority of American Airlines’ pilots have been with the
airline since the early 1990s, which means that pilots have endured an ongoing decline in
their standard of living for much of their careers with the carrier.
“In sharp contrast to what our pilots have endured, American Airlines
management has given itself what amounts to an exponential increase in compensation
over the same period. What we are seeking for our pilots doesn’t even begin to approach
management’s gains,” Hill said.
American Airlines’ five “Named Executive Officers” (as identified in documents
filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission) have experienced an increase of 469
percent in their total compensation since 1992. For the CEO, the increase has been even
more dramatic. In 1992, American Airlines CEO Robert Crandall’s total compensation
was $1,013,471. Current CEO Gerard Arpey’s total compensation for 2007 will be
$8,344,971—an increase of 723 percent, representing a 560 percent increase in
purchasing power.
“It is well past time to restore our pilots’ purchasing power,” Hill said. “After all,
management compensation has done much more than simply keep pace with inflation. By
any measure, the past 15 years have been extremely lucrative for our airline’s senior
For more details regarding APA’s pay restoration proposal and other proposals
the union has made during the ongoing contract negotiations, go to
Home (http://www.apanegotiations.com).

Founded in 1963, the Allied Pilots Association—the largest independent pilot
union in the U.S.—is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas. APA represents the 12,000
pilots of American Airlines, including 2,570 pilots on furlough. The furloughs began
shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks. Also, several hundred American Airlines
pilots are on full-time military leave of absence serving in the armed forces. The union’s
Web site address is Welcome to the Allied Pilots Association (http://www.alliedpilots.org).
American Airlines is the nation’s largest passenger carrier.

# # #

15th Sep 2008, 14:27


american pilots still need better PR...Media relations. And in every quote mention...400 percent pay raises for management while pilots, fa's etc. took pay cuts to survive the 911 attacks.

now, who is the patriot?

15th Sep 2008, 18:34
the problem with quoting these percentage increases and comparing pay packets is that there are hundreds if not thousands of pilots in the company, but only one CEO.

Okay, so the guy earns $8M, but there is only one of him/her. So in the big picture of things it's not a lot of money.

Also think of the decisions the dude makes in an average year, shall we hedge fuel or not, shall we pay 2.1% or 2.2% to cabin crew, shall we put the new maintenance base in LA or Seattle, shall we play hardball on the lease of the terminal at JFK or not, shall we close all South American routes or cut back on Europe,777 or A350 x15, etc etc etc.

The decisions, made correctly, by the CEO, are worth tens of millions if not hundreds of millions PER decision. So I think they earn the big bucks, if they do a good job.

And don't trot out the old "we have 200 passengers lives in our hands all day". we know, it's no doubt a difficult job with it's own challenges and so forth, but there is an entire system and backups to ensure those 200 passengers arrive safely over and over again.

And, in the good old fashioned capitalistic system we live in, if you want the £8M then prove you have the skills and start climbing the greasy pole to be CEO. Willie did it at Aer Lingus and now BA....


15th Sep 2008, 19:32

fine, but the percentage change from 16 years ago is the bad thing.

The CEO of American back then made the same decisions as the CEO now.

IF the pilots got a 10 percent raise from 16 years ago, the CEO can get the same percentage raise...but not hundreds of percent...that is the wrong thing.

15th Sep 2008, 23:00
Airline pilots' pay should be tied to executive compensation. There needs to be an independent auditing group that looks at and evaluates the TOTAL compensation package of the CEO (for example). Then, the pilots get a percentage of that.

For example, Arpey's $8.3M is probably much higher when you figure in ALL the benefits, perks, stock options, etc. I'll bet that $8.3M blows up to maybe $12M or more when everything is added in.

So, pay the captains 2.0% of that figure...first officers get 1.3%. Forget sick leave, vacation, pension, etc., etc. Just pay the MD-80 captain 2%. Surely Arpey is not worth more than 50 times what a Super 80 captain is worth!

For $240K per year, I'll provide my own pension savings, sick leave, etc. And, I'll be sure to have a pension at the end of my career, as well. (The executives will be unable to steal it!)

(No, I don't fly for American!)

Fly safe,


19th Sep 2008, 05:23
Here's the link to the FAA Safety website. You can send an email with the following info:

Contact the Aviation Safety Hotline (http://www.faa.gov/safety/safety_hotline/)

Date incident occured: May 30, 2008

Pilot in question: Captain Jeffery Bruce Osborne B737 DFW

Occurence: violation of FAR 121.542 Unneccessary use of cellphone during critical phase of flight while on an active runway 18L DFW Airport.

19th Sep 2008, 05:29
One wonders...is the APA still looking for that 53% increase?


With inflation it will now take 61% to restore our pay back to 2003 wages.

19th Sep 2008, 06:59
Surprising that 411A (and myself) survived flying the 707 with non-existant CRM basics and lack of SOP for taxi speeds.

You guys survived but as you know many did not. Pan Am put metal on a lot of Pacific islands before they improved the training and aircraft became more reliable.

I'm told that the accused AA captain had an 'unfortunate date of hire' at Continental, is this true? Was he from Reno Air perhaps?

19th Sep 2008, 18:42
there is the rumor about exCAL

no he is not exReno- they are all FOs.

apparently, the FAA has stated there is NO minimum required taxi speed.

20th Sep 2008, 01:41
Followed two AA A-300's at JFK, think we hit 4kts on the straights.

(Can't say I blame them though)

24th Sep 2008, 03:25
I assume you mean no faster than "a man can walk" while in the vicinity of parked aircraft and no faster than "a man can trot" while on a published taxiway? Just to check.