Class date at EK

[frieghtdog]

Has anyone been offered a class date for next Q1 at EK?When do you think will start offering classes?
you think if classes offered in Feb that means they should contact pilots some time in Nov of 08.
Any feed back

[kingpost]

They don't have class dates they have course dates - means the same thing though. If you're a CRJ or 145 driver it won't be soon, thank goodness.

Let this be the start of your cultural training

[drnetsurfer]

Don't worry mate....give it sometime. Everything in due course.....I am afraid guys like Kingpost really never add anything constructive. His bitterness and arrogance prevents any sort of civil response to a reasonable question. His kind where borne to the left seat of wide body aircraft and thus feel threatened by other pilots who they think don't measure up to their god like abilities. I am sure he is a joy to fly with since he apparently knows everything and has an aswer for everything. Does that sound about right Kingpost? I am sure you will have some meaningless comeback to which my response is.....lighten up! :ok:

[frieghtdog]

Kingpost ,I gess you have no life beside being here making bad remarks!
I am not a CRJ pilot ,but I think CRJ guys have more experiance than you are, I hope you are not a captain, and if you are, that means some F.O saved your a........ss so many times.

I can go on and on ,but I dont have time for narrow minded person.

Drnetsurfer, thanks for the reply , I had to make a decision between waiting for EK or take EY offer for next month , What you guys think?

Cheers

[yada.yada.yada]

waiting for EK or take EY offer for next month


What's that saying again? A bird in hand......

[Kenny]

Just got an update from a friend of the family who's been at EK for about 19 years......

Apparently "someone" screwed up and 100 extra FO's/DEC's have been hired and trained over what was required for this year. ALL recruitment has been stopped until next year, as opposed to starting again in Nov..

Poolies should expect an email explaining the situation soon and that course dates will now not be until April/May.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm not happy about it either; a May course date would put me very close to my 12 month expiration.

[IDbackcountry]

Thanks for the update, Kenny. I interviewed end of June and haven't heard anything yet. My wife and I are very excited to go if I get accepted, but at least your communication helps with planning even if it means quite a while (hopefully not more than 12 months...).

[yoyonow]

Gents, slightly naive to believe 'someone' screwed up.

The sale of the A310 has released around 40 pilots, minor delays in A380 arrivals and 777 (liable to get worse...) have also lead to a reduction in the requirement for pilots this FY and the target has already been met. There appear to be no changes to the strategic plan so expect the doors to open again at the same rate (about 300-400?) next FY. I understand that any contracts already issued will be honoured. Or so I heard.

Good luck gents/ladies

[arcticspud1]

Does that mean the A310 sim is gone too?

[fatbus]

No word on the sim, suspect it to stay around for interview stuff .

[arcticspud1]

That is one expensive sim to keep around if that is the only purpose.

[mikehagen]

Now I am officially confused regarding the one year expiration date at EK.

Before a year passes up after your succesful interview what exactly are you supossed to have done?

Sign up the contract or actually start training?

[PositiveRate876]

That is one expensive sim to keep around if that is the only purpose.

The 310 sim slots are sold to other airlines such as Sudan Airways, S7, Libyan and other carriers who use just a couple A300/310s and don't have their own training facilities.

So keeping the classic bus sim might be a viable proposition.

[kingpost]

drnetsurfer

I'll rise to respond. Say what you want about me or others but I'm sick of carrying someone who cannot even speak properly on the radio and expects to be spoon fed during training.

Like I said, if he's a 145 or CRJ driver, let's see how long it takes before he gets recruited - there's more talent out there right now, not some "Borne aviator" from the US of A who will never make command in 3 years.

Frieghtdog (says it all) go for EY, it's going to be a while at EK

[frieghtdog]

Kingpost,I guess if you can't take the heat don't play with fire, I am an experienced A320 pilot with over 12000 hrs, and don't worry ,you will not spoon feed me in traning, but in defence of all pilots everybody needs a chane ,so if you don't like it ..get out of the traning department, thats if you are in it anyways.

[Mr Lover]

Hi,

just to let you know a good friend of mine is starting class with EK very soon... and yes he is a CRJ driver, even more, if one day you are his sim partner you will have the feeling to be a student pilot or even worst a little kid...

Don't forget KING... you will always have something to learn... your education is not over.

Have an appointement with a psychologist maybe someone can help u out.

Mr. Lover

[Fart Master]

I hate to agree, but Kingpost has a point.

[yoyonow]

Fart,

Have to agree also.

Always be wary of a poster who is quick to prove his superior airmanship with a reference to his 12000 hours.

Frieght/Mr Lover, I wish you well but rest assured that I can confirm that the recent arrivals of ‘experienced’ CRJ drivers have, in general, proved king’s point.

[Fart Master]

Freightdog, be careful about raising to the bait in these posts. Fair enough defend your point, but to start telling people to get out of the training dept. of an airline that you wish to join seems to me to show that you may need a little attitude adjustment when/if you come here.

I will be straight with you, in the time I have been here (6+ years) I have never heard a single bad comment from anyone in training regarding any particular culture.

HOWEVER, in the last 6-9 months I have heard trainers who I consider to be discrete and tactful quite openly say how sick and tired they are of the lack of effort and general attitude of the drivers are who come from the USA, I include CRJ as well as A320 pilots.

So maybe I should throw a similar question back at you... if you don't like the type of pilot EK employs i.e. says what he/she thinks, maybe you should just stay where you are, these comments cut both ways.

Have a nice day now y'all:ok:

[SOPS]

I think Fart Master has a very valid point.

[kingpost]

Mr Lover

"just to let you know a good friend of mine is starting class with EK very soon... and yes he is a CRJ driver, even more, if one day you are his sim partner you will have the feeling to be a student pilot or even worst a little kid..". So sad as not many CRJ drivers from the US of A are being recruited at the moment, so he'll stick out like a sore thumb - well done, I'm sure he'll teach them all at EK.

F....dog.

12000 hrs and still in the right hand seat, you must be good - if you have the choice do us all a favour and please go to EY.

[Mr Lover]

Never said I have 12 000 hrs and right seat.... actually I have lot less then that but left seat....

Please do us a favor Kingpost, quit aviation job, with an attitude like yours you jeopardize everyone safety (crew, pax and people on the ground).

Please consult b4 it is too late, you also deserve a second chance to have a better life.

[klavoll]

So lets turn this topic into something productive instead of going back and forth about who can fly an airplane and who has X0,000 hours:

-What can the North American CRJ/ERJ/A320 pilots do to better prepare themselves before joining EK?
-What are the consistent "weak" areas you (current EK pilots) see when flying with North American pilots?
-Fill in questions/answers here.....and lets keep the conversation productive. :ok:

[klavoll]

Probably not, but it might be interesting to hear what other pilots say...

[klavoll]

I have a course date. I have been studying and preparing the best I can. I don't want to be unprepared. That's why I'm asking the questions. So, back to the topic:

-What can North American CRJ/ERJ/A320 pilots do to better prepare themselves before joining EK?
-What are the consistently "weak" areas you (current EK pilots) see when flying with North American pilots?
-Fill in questions/answers here.....and lets keep the conversation productive.

[merew]

HI Guys;
It was never my intention to put my two cents in here,but I think it would be appropriate to drop a line or two for now.

It really is not a question of the size of the metal tube you have been flying before coming to Emirates.It rather is a question of your mental set.What I see with some of the American Drivers I came across is that they really forget that they are no more in the States and things work a bit differently over here.

As long as you guys come here with a wider outlook and a mental set that will allow you to learn something,I don't think you will have a problem.After all let us not forget that we have quite a handful of drivers from certain parts of the world with BA 146 experience.

Good luck guys .

[kingpost]

Klavoll

As previously mentioned it is the mental set. EK fly to some real weird places and if you're flexible to quick change you'll not have a problem. My suggestion is is to try and go through the aircraft type CBT before you get here and go through the ICAO procedures.

Experience wise, you'll only get it in the seat - believe me it is different to what you're use to.

Good luck

[GMDS]

-What can North American CRJ/ERJ/A320 pilots do to better prepare themselves before joining EK?
-What are the consistently "weak" areas you (current EK pilots) see when flying with North American pilots?
-Fill in questions/answers here.....and lets keep the conversation productive.


klavoll
just by asking your question you have jumped the biggest hurdle already. As has been said before, it is the mindset.
To be more specific:
Even the most vast NA experience is not covering all of what is going on in aviation worldwide. Accepting this puts you in a learning mode, rather than expecting everybody doing it the American way. Which by the way is very proficient, but, again, it's been done slightly differently in other places. And it works fine as well.

- From the first moment try to listen to the specific terms used and adopt them. Americanisms, allthough not wrong, sometimes generate a more hostile environement.
- Same goes for ATC. Listen to the mainstream in this region/s. you will quickly discern the hard to understand and the mostly standard and well to grasp. Talk with a distinct, clear English and slowly, you will be better understood by the Asians and you will understand them better in return.
- Accept somewhat different SOPs (!) just as Australians, Europeans, South Africans and Asians have done it before. You will learn to work with them, even I did, and it's not so bad....
- A CRJ background has one big issue, a daily topic at EK, that's energy management. As proficient as an aviator you might be, a heavy A330 or a heavy B777-300 are more slippery than you can imagine. The most difficult part is recovery when messed up. The slot is very small and leaves little space for Chuck Yeagers, if any. Unstable approaches are a constant pain for EK and the training guys pinpointed more problems with the light jet drivers, which is quite logical. Accept this small weakness, learn and you'll be fine.
- Finally you have to accept very rapidly that the support throughout the company and Dubai/Abu Dhabi is set at an Asian standard. Not more and not less. We could not change it and you will not be able to do so. The faster you try to work with it, the lesser you will get annoyed and the lesser you stick out as the arrogant Westener.

All the best and see you around.

GMDS

[yoyonow]

Klavoll,

Well said, as has already been stated, by asking the question you are 90% there with your approach and attitude to what will be a cultural change in your professional and social life. Some good advice above, everybody has their own opinion but here are a few thoughts to answer some of your questions:-
- The best way to prepare is to be in the best shape you can on arrival to be able to learn. In my opinion don’t waste your time now with pre-study you have more than enough to do with moving country/job/kids school etc. etc. The first weeks here are hectic with both domestic admin. and professional study. Be prepared for that and realize that you will be given good quality training but that you will have to find time for self study.

- Be prepared to be out of your comfort zone. We have all been there. Some people get very frustrated that they no longer feel on top of the job. Be aware that you were hired as a capable and experienced aviator, the diverse nature of the EK job will soon become familiar to you. If you put in the work you will soon be back in that comfort zone. As has been mentioned ad-nausium, particular areas that may need some thought are descent planning and aircraft energy awareness and radio work. Disciplined radio work will help you to be understood more readily on our global network. More importantly, like it or not, the use of North American slang is a hot topic at the moment and its use will ensure that you are perceived as arrogant and not wanting to learn or conform. Company standard is CAP 413 as available on Civil Aviation Authority Home Page (http://www.caa.co.uk)

It’s challenging, fun, frustrating and it pays the bills…….. Come armed with an open and willing attitude and I hope you feel you have made the right choice a year from now. I did.

Good luck

[Fart Master]

Doesn't say much for you then does it??

[Obbie]

Not as little as that comment says about you......

You certainly are bottom shelf Fart Master.....

Now go run along and keep telling yourself you can teach....

[Fart Master]

Boo hoo....cry me a river:{

[john negussie]

klavoll.....may I ask when you interviewed? I interviewed in early July and just got placed in the pool for course date early next year.

[drnetsurfer]

Many of these posts absolutely reek of condescension and usual under-current of hostility towards American pilots....on a regular basis American pilots fly around the world. Americans don't know how to manage aircraft energy because they fly or flew smaller jets....they don't study as hard..."speak in a distinct and specific English".....Our schools in America for years have been filled with South Africans, Europeans, Australians, Asians.....and not just our aviation schools. Welcomed with open arms and given aid to our schools. Well taught and sent back to their home countries. All of a sudden a bunch of Americans show up at EK and EY......and this is the kind of crap you have to put up with.....stop kowtowing to some of these morons. If these so called professional pilots can't provide decent mentoring for pilots arriving to Ek or EY stop seeking their advice. They're plenty of Americans working for EY & EK who are willing to help....shoot me an email I will put you in touch with a few of my friends who will give you the straight scoop minus the obvious brand of hostility and smart-a$% remarks about American pilots. I have said it once and I will say it again....none of these guys went into the left of a 777 even though they boast as if they invented aviation and wrote the book on flying....just remember you're taking advice from guys with handles like Fart Master...give me a break!!!!:ugh:

[drnetsurfer]

My apologizes...I keep forgeting about the spell check nazi's online. I certainly don't want to embarass my fellow American pilots as they venture out overseas with my poor spell check etiquette. So, I edited my post as to not offend your royal highness "380-800" extraordinaire Super Super Heavy Jet EK Captain. You see I am an American pilot, if we make a mistakes we fix it and we carry on smartly. No applause necessary! But that's ok....I still pledge not to put down foreign pilots who come to US to learn how to fly from poor Americans who seemly don't know how to manage an aircraft's energy state. Funny thing..... despite the fact that apparently Bristish, Australian, and South African pilots are the best trained and most talented and "speak proper" English on the radio at all times. It's funny how EK, EY, QA, etc etc all are recruiting heavily in the states and hiring heavily from the states. Unprofessional, lazy, poor aircraft knowledge, and non-conformers are some of the descriptors being levied against American pilots.....I guess you should go talk to your recruiting depart, your royal highness "380-800" extraordinaire Super Super Heavy Jet EK Captain.:ugh:

[Panther 88]

First if any of these "professionals" have to correct your spelling on a blog board or be critical of your choice of words (class vs. course) they have already lost any argument or credibility. Having been here for awhile, I have watched these so called professionals completly lose it going into JFK and IAH. One particular individual from the big island could not handle the rapid instructions of the arrival into JFK and forget about the ground instructions. BUT, does this make him a lousy pilot or whatever Fart boy, et al would profes? No, it just makes him new to this particular enviornment as you will be flying east. I would love to be on the jump seat during the CIVIT arrival into LAX then getting changed to another arrival and then a runway change. These "unproven" RJ drivers from the west have been doing this for years. But just make sure your R/T procedures are to theses guys standards--the controlers in NY and LAX will just love you. And these guys trying to figure out when and to whom to say "heavy" to is a bit comical also.

P88

[Wizofoz]

So, drnetsurfer and Panther 88, what you are basically saying is that when pilots from a different environment come to the US, they should be open minded and ready to learn that things are done differently in different parts of the world- Sounds like exactly what you and your compatriots are being told by people operating here.

No one is saying US pilots can't fly. US CRJ pilots can fly CRJs in the US better than anyone. What's being said is that some US pilots come here believing that their previous experience means they have little to learn from those already here (and they are by no means exclusive- I can cite my own Aussie compatriots as a group that needs a rapid re-education on arriving here with no experience outside Australia. I was fortunate to have operated in different environments before coming here- it would have been MUCH tougher coming straight from Aus.)

Coming off a small aircraft to a very big one, from the US to the Middle east and from FAA regs to our hybrid JAR/GCAA laws is a challenge to say the least (I recently had to explain to a US student what an FIR boundary was- as a CRJ Captain he'd never consciously crossed one!!). It takes an attitude of being open to new ways and a willingness to listen and learn- present in most, absent from some. We will need to display the same attitudes to adjust to the different environment when we operate to LAX and SFO, just as we have had to learn to deal with JFK and IAH.

And yes, learning the different terms used in a different company and a different country are a part of living outside you own back yard- When we lived in the UK my wife quickly learned not to refer to her sandals as "thongs",and I know not to walk into a US stationary shop and ask for a rubber- I ask for an eraser!!!


I have said it once and I will say it again....none of these guys went into the left of a 777

Well, actually.....

[Panther 88]

Wizofoz,
What you say is very correct. But the attitude shown by many here on the board, says a lot. To think someone tells them to get their sheika together because they say class rather than course.........

Not know what a FIR boundary was? Says much about the training then. If you haven't been trained you really don't know what you don't know.

P88

[frieghtdog]

OK gents, lets stop the bashing , I started this thread so everyone in the pool will have some idea when they might be called for a Class or Course date (whatever floats your boat) , at the very end , everyone in the pool has successfully completed the selection process , it might take someone some extra time to learn something , but at the end we are all capable to do the job.

so lets start this again if you all don't mind.
DID ANYONE IN THE POOL HAVE BEEN GIVING A START DATE FOR THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2009?
Thanks for all the inputs

F.D:ok:

[drnetsurfer]

No, I guess that wasn't so hard. Well said wizofoz....I can appreciate your post. Let me second the sentiment of P88.....and sure there's always going to be a few bad apples but it's not everyone. As F.D. says lets move on!

[GMDS]

Dear drnetsurfer and others

When I left my home, some years ago, to get further training in addition to my light twin experience, I ventured to the the mighty US of A. There I asked for advice of how to best fit in. I got almost a copy/paste of my earlier contribution to this thread. It would not have crossed my mind to second guess or criticise this bona fide advice or its issuer.
In the same bona fide I gave this advice back to you guys, as at least one asked for it.
Now, doesn't your reaction say more about you than us trying to give you valuable information?

GMDS

[frieghtdog]

hay guys in the pool, what you think of this last HR e-mail, it looks like it might happen again at EK again:ok: , sounds like they will be sending contracts in NOV or DEC,
good luck to everyone.
F.D

[masalama]

yep FD we're all hoping for the course classes to start again soon.
Iwould think the first ones to be put into the pool were the end of April '08interviewees.....they would probably be the first to get the call...

good luck and masalama.

[Constant Speed DU]

freightdog - any chance of pm'ing me that last hr email?
KRcsdu

[frieghtdog]

So based on the last E-mail from HR , did anyone have been contacted for a start date in the first Q1 of next year?

[Kenny]

The email did say that they wouldn't be calling until the end of the year.

Considering IAM workers at Boeing are still on strike and a course at the beginning of next month was cancelled, I'd say we'll be extremely lucky to hear anything before Jan '09.