Mess Cannon

[Seymour Belvoir]

I am looking for the ultimate design of Mess Cannon, one which is:

Cheap and easy to build.

Fires the chosen projectile a very long way.

Is very, very, LOUD!

Any ideas?

Oh, and I need to have it built by Friday!

[Edmund Spencer]

We had an excellent cannon in 800NAS. The idea was pinched off a Swedish Viggen squadron (of all the unlikely places!)
A one metre cardboard tube closed at one end the exact diameter of a tennis ball. Small hole at the closed end into which you pour a measured quantity of lighter fluid.
Add Tennis Ball.
Aim.
Set a match to the hole and bang!
Spectacular results guaranteed.
ES

[6Z3]

Hi,
This link (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/253854-mess-canons.html) or this (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/290152-mess-cannon.html) one, or even this (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/65364-indoor-artillery.html) one might help

[A2QFI]

Some food tins, (beans, soup etc) are also the right size to accommodate a tennis ball and can be stuck togther with gaffer tape to make a cannon barrel.Construction and use as per ES's post. Beer cans used to do the job but they have gone over to these variable cross section aluminium ones so no go!

[ShyTorque]

I could give you advice but the result might be someone's leg shot off. :O

Poor aim with our QHI course cannon (in 1984, by a certain George McC, God rest his soul) resulted in a pelmet, curtain rails, a pair of curtains and plaster getting shot down in the newly decorated ladies' room in the OM at Shawbury, oops..

He was supposed to be going for a stack of pint pots on an armchair - the elevation was about 45 degrees too high.

[Seymour Belvoir]

Off to the mes to grab some baked bean tins now.




Ooh, that gives me an idea for an alternative fuel.....!:ooh:

[Monty77]

I remember a couple of hooligans on 72 at Aldergrove in the early '90s who made a whopper. It was mounted on a tea trolley and incorporated a sighting mechanism. They'd wired up a car battery to provide the spark - no messing about with lighters. I have no recollection of whether it worked, because I'm afraid I was very, very drunk.

[minigundiplomat]

The secret of a good mess cannon is the incorporation of baffles at the base allowing a good build of gas.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

I don't know if a WAFU by the name of P*t* Ch*rms is still around, or if he frequents these fora, but his Thunderflash powered device certainly impressed the then 1SL at a Mess Dinner on LGC80, one of the final courses before it became the ISC.

[Gainesy]

Use catering size cans, the ones about 6-8in diameter and cabbages as ammo.

[NutLoose]

I also remember the 45 pounder at RAF Odiham that was used as an underslung, loaded with some toilet rolls forced down the barrel and a thunderflash popped in the breach had a suitable effect which could get them over the hangar roof and that was before you got the soft stuff.

:ok:

Often remembered people borrowing it for functions turning up in their cars with towing hitches and hooking the monster on the towing eye before dissapearing into the sunset whilst attempting to still see over the bonnet.:}


Ahh... the old hard shiney white Toilet paper, each sheet lovingly crafted and individually printed with the words "Government property" on them, as if anyone would steal it.........

It was and still is, the only Government White Paper ever worth a sh*t. :cool:

[22/7 Master]

A junglie pilot got hold of a 66mm LAW, to which yeovilton workshops kindly added a brass thread and bolt to the rear end with a small hole in the centre of the bolt.

Remove bolt, place fuse of crow scarer through small hole and tighten bolt with crow scarer in tube. Add tennis ball at other end, extend LAW, sights pop up and fire away!

Picture the scene at a Taranto Night with the cannon maskred in situ under the table due to a ban on Mess Cannons at the event. Fire first round at cardboard ships and cue the Commander of HMS Heron to stand on top table and make his way to the offender just as he says, 'fire me up Nobby!'. Priceless.

Offender ordered to leave mess, no resulting disciplinary action as the cannon way mysteriously stolen overnight......

[Doors Off]

PVC Pipe is your friend:}(I would recommend 100mm for the combustion chamber and a reducer to 40mm for the Barrell), you require an 'o' ring sealed screw end for the bottom of the combustion chamber (this aids in a rapid reload). PVC Glue to put it all together.

A pesio (sp) igniter embedded into a wooden pistol grip running your wires through a wooden dowl plug into the combustion chamber(assists in maintaining a superb overpressure)

A can of black spray paint, a wooden dowl plunger for loading ones' musket, a sack of spuds, some lighter fluid in a spray can (insert through the small hole in the combustion chamber).

Ram your spud in, fluid spray, aim, Fire! Chips for everyone. :ouch
So much fun, even made one in Bosnia. :E

[winch wannabe]

You should go speak to your Helpfull Squippers (Proper Service Squippers, not this civillian rubbish), get hold of 3 empty glue tins (KB156) bodge tape them together first one with 2mm hole in bottom, 2nd 4mm hole and the 3rd with a 6mm hole, using a plant sprayer to spray a fine mist into the chamber and ignite with one of them trigger type gas burner lighters! works really well, if you can find a piece of drain pipe about 3ft long to bodge onto it, will fire an apple over a hangar no probs :ok:

good luck

WW

[dagenham]

There is a book I bought in the states from barnesandnoble.com called back yard ballistics - has a whole range of cannon that can be made from plumbing apparatus

[PTR 175]

Back Yard Ballistics, William Gurstelle, ISBN 1-55652-357-0

I keep a copy in my desk. Available from Amazon. It is a US of A book so some of the things in there need some alternatives.:ok:

[Monty77]

Cripes! Glad Al-Qaeda don't know about us!

Gainsey's tip is spot on. The catering size tins you get from the Mess/NAAFI are excellent, but it really has to be cabbage, so you have to get your ammuntion sorted. Don't want another Islandwhana, do we? Smaller bore varieties allow greater flexibility in available ordnance when the screaming hordes are at the barricade. Socks, tennis balls, your neighbours napkin etc.

I have seen quite large pieces of un-peeled fruit wrapped in a bra deployed, I assure you. And we won on that particular night, but we were only up against ATC, and the supplier of the bra had defected from their side minutes earlier.

Should you choose to 'go large', you can also big it up before firing by giving it a name like 'Big Bertha' (the big f*ck off train mounted jobber that shelled Blighty from France in WW1).

Whatever you decide to do, practice several times. Make sure the thing makes a bloody great bang and hopefully lots of smoke (this can be done independently, just go easy). Accuracy is totally unimportant for once.

Good luck mate, let us know how it goes.:ok:

[Arty Fufkin]

I seem to remember a course at Linton on 72sqn built a monster of a cannon which was christened "The Chief." The barrel was a 6 foot length of steel pipe and the combusiton chamber was a fire extinguisher. Lynx deodorant was the propellant and it used coke cans for ammunition. The whole thing sounded like a mortar going off and won the inter-squadron mess cannon competiton hands down. As for the range.... No Idea, we never found any of the cans fired as it was a misty day and vis was down to 500m so no impacts were seen!!
Not really suited to indoor use though!

[621andy]

Wondered if anyone else had discovered 'crow scarers'* - bluddy marvleeous things:E:E

Try cutting a small hole in a tin of beans and inserting a crow scarer - removing the paper on the fuse makes it easier to light but decreases the fuse burn time:=:E

It makes a helluva bang and a helluva mess too... I suspect inserting it into a mortar would need good timing but the effect would be amazing:} Imagine the airburst...watch out for the shrapnel though!


*Crow scarers- as it says on the tin- available from farm supplies shops. Usually in a cardboard box with several 'strings'. They're basically industrial sized bangers, fitted into a length of hemp rope. Officially, you light the end of the string and leave it in your planted field- rope burns and eventually reaches scarers at various positions along its length....unofficially, you take them out of the rope...
They're much easier to get hold of than thunderflashes:ok:

Wrapping them in a couple of layers of cloth tape(we used the tape used to repair knots in glider winch cable:8) increases the power. Another tip is that they'll burn underwater too, which increases the fun factor no end:E

We used to tape them to the end of my crossbow bolts and fire them at seagulls- Just like real Flak:} . Never hit any gulls, but certainly increased their bowel movements...

I've seen them blow a beer can into tiny pieces, so be careful out there;)

[Monty77]

Arty -

I remember that Linton bad boy. Despite being very, very drunk, I fully recall a can of coke disappearing into the Yorkshire mist at Warp Factor Snot followed by a senior officer declaring, 'Well, that's not coming into the Mess tonight'.

Definitely 72 (they're all really quite naughty lads and nothing much seems to have changed, apart from the fact that 33 and 230 are STILL mincing trannies).

Disqualified and banned from the Mess for simply being too good. Lewis Hamilton would understand.:D

[Gnd]

Speak to the blue appointer, he will remember the 230 v 5 cannon and who to talk to. I think they are still running!!!!!:ouch:

[Saintsman]

The Rocks at Akrotiri mid 80's, were all marched from the Pen Club to the Guardroom for using light bulbs in theirs.... :}

[Rigger1]

100 Sqn have got one made from the centre spreader tube / bar from a towed air to air gunnery target, it’s a little temperamental to get a good shot out of it but when you do …….. I swear we managed to get a shot off camp from ‘G’ dispersal at Akrotiri.

[Monty77]

Seymour Belvoir

Big hand of respect to the name, by the way.

Any chance of an update on progress? I do not wish upon you the hassle Frank Whittle had back in the '30s.

I really think we could be on the cusp of a biggy here.

The assorted skills of milpprune await with baited breath. Possibly.

Maybe......

Righty ho, business as usual...

[threeputt]

The secret of a good mess cannon is the incorporation of baffles at the base allowing a good build of gas.

Charlie Brown was and I would guess still is the best baffler of hot gasses known to a good Dining In night.

3P:ok:

[Squirrel 41]

Question from a mate of a friend.....

Perhaps some Baby EngOs would like to comment on the appropriate fuel mix when using Lighter Fluid and um, LOX..... :ok:

Effort boys! :D

Pity it only worked once......:E

Allegedly......

S41

[Leo Sayer]

Try these from the AAC.

A new mess canon, and some hockey kit.

YouTube - AAC Mess Cannon 1 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PcTyd2_VicM)

YouTube - AAC Mess Cannon 2 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VU1ltjsrAug)

[Fast but Safe]

Secret base in Wilts....early 90's....dangerous shift....hit VASS from the hanger....Iraq tried to copy it....

http://www.un.org/UN50/Photos/un50-083.gif

Say no more!

[9BIT]

:ok:The Spudgun Technology Center - Your Source for Spudgun Parts, information, and more! (http://www.spudtech.com)

[9BIT]

:ok:spudtech. com

[Dan Winterland]

The technical problems of cannon construction have been exercising aircrew brains ever since Blackadder and Baldrick joined the '20 minuters'. Here's the benefit of my 'ahem' fairly extensive cannon building experience - gained mostly on long stints on QRA at MPA!

Combustion chamber size is critical and is usually larger than initially anticipated. For small calibre weapons, it needs to be at least half the length of the weapon. 'Baffling' with half opened tins is usually successful with the baffles at 90 degrees to each other seeming to work best. The fuel needs to evaporate to burn, so increasing the evaporation surface is a good idea. Something metallic such as a ball of scrunched up locking wire is good, but don't use steel wool as it can ingnite with disasterous consequences!

As previously metioned, the fuel air mix is critical. To weak and you get a 'phut', too strong and it won't ignite. As the evaporation rate of the fuel is critical. combustion chamber warms up, the fuel evaporates faster and the mixture required changes. We found the best solution for a liquid propellant is to use a syringe to carefully measure the required charge. Trial and error testing outside the dining in night environment will determine the correct mixture for the temperature. Also, the syringe encourages vaporization if the mixture is applied under pressure.

Ignition is easy if the mix is correct. But the standard lighter over the hole technique has it's drawbacks. The size of the hole isn't that critical, but too small a hole won't allow enough fuel outside the chamber for instant ignition and too big a hole will reduce the chamber pressure and give quite a lot of 'blowback' - which can be painful! You can 'prime' the orifice with a bit of fuel, but this is an advanced technique. An electric ignition system using a big capacitor and a spark plug works well. But if the person who your cannon is being aimed at decides he doesn't want a 300mph tennis ball hitting his solar plexus and throws his beer at the firer, the system can short giving a near lethal shock to the neck. This will result in the end of the evening for the firer as he's taken to the medical centre! And if using the spark plug method, get a correct size bolt brazed onto the chamber by station workshops in which to screw the plug. If the plug comes out during firing, the collateral damage is spectacular and expensive!

The barrel. Tins of various calibres are readily available. But choice depends on the ammunition availability. Very large calibres (catering vegtable tins/OM15 cans) look impressive and strike fear into the enemy, but ammo choice is a bit limited and muzzle velocity on large weapons is low, so range is limited. Don't use a calibre which relies on a specially made projectile as you probably won't get it back! Join the tins with speed tape, gaffer tape will melt when hot. The end tin of the combustion chamber needs extra securing. Also, for big calibres or advanced fuels consider re-inforcing the combustion chamber with a winding of locking wire and a layer of speed tape.

Ammo: For standard bean tins, tennis balls work well. Fruit and vegtables are good on impact, but the calibres are varible leading to the risk of getting them stuck. having said that, the most effective ammo I have used is partially mouldy oranges! Small plastic footballs are good in large calibre weapons, but can melt if the barrel is hot from repeated use.

Fuel: Lighter petrol is the easiest in my experience. Pressurized butane works well too, but it is a bit tricky to apply. Pyrotechnics are good for closed weapons, but the temptation to set them off outside the weapon is too great. The best fuel I have ever tried is a 75/25 mix of Methyl Ethyl Ketone and Trichlorofluroethane. But be warned - this fuel is only suitable for the very advanced cannoneer!

Aiming system: Laser pointer! it's quick and accurate and also very intimidating. You should see how quick a Blunty can move when he realsies he has a little red dot on his chest!





PS. I take no responsibility for anything tried that I've metioned here. Anything attempted is at your own risk!!!!!!!! :=

[Gainesy]

Aiming system: Laser pointer!

Sheer Genius!:D:)

[The Adjutant]

Monty 77
You should learn your history old chap. Big Bertha was a Fighter Control WRAF Flt Lt at West Drayton back in the early 1980's. Not sure if she could shell Blighty from France, but she could do lots of other things that were spectacular to see in a lady of such large girth
Quite appropriate on "Big Bang " day
pip-pip old boy.

[Megawart]

I've used MEK in the Falklands (highly recommended when applied with a syringe), so consider myself fairly advanced in the art of cannoneering.

What's not been discussed yet, is the teamwork required for a successful launch. I've found that, as with most things, co-ordination and co-operation are key. It is paramount that co-ordination is achieved through the use of 'key words'.

'Canon armed' - propellant and missile loaded into tube - announced by the canon preparer.
'Canon ready' - Canon mounted on the shoulder of the canon aimer and ears protected. - announced by the canon aimer.
'Firing!' - Declared by the Firer as the lighter flame is applied to the ignition hole.

Then there is, what seems to be a lifetime, for the canon aimer as ignition either occurs or does not.

The next call is either, 'F*ck me!!' from general bystanders/intended victim, OR, 'For Christ's sake stop firing!!' issued by the canon aimer as he loses his nerve after a considerable amount of time in the aiming position as the rest of the room takes cover and tension mounts.

These things, I find, are key to a successful firing.

Trash

[Seymour Belvoir]

Thanks for all the info. I think we are going to plump for the traditional bean tin, lighter fluid and tennis ball variety.

I can't give you an update, cos in true aircrew style, we haven't started building it yet. Well, I did say we've got til Friday evening!

Thanks again.

SB

[Dan Winterland]

Apologies for the late interjection.

Mrs W had a quick look at this thread and reminded me of a device she once saw me applying a match to. It was constructed in the mid 80s at Finningley with the specific target of student navigators. It was the 'tapering' design where the combustion chamber was of a greater diameter than the barrel. This has the obvious advantage of reducing the length of the weapon, but also seems to increase the muzzle velocity due to the venturi effect. It was particularly effective as I remember, with some fairly major damage done to the Mess. It does however require copious re-enforcement at the taper.

Good luck Seymour.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Ahh MPA! Wasn't it there that one VC10 pilot made a mess cannon out of some sort of anti-tank missile tube (66mm?). IIRC the tennis ball managed to make it half way through one of those glass and wire mesh bits of a fire door! The catchers stepped aside at the last second, which was probably just as well!!:eek:

[dazdaz]

Won't make a bag, but if you get your hands on one of those co2 extinguishers, the ones with the cone shape where the gas comes out, and ram a tennis ball down it, shure goes 200 yards plus when you squeeze the lever.

Daz

[Dan Winterland]

Ah yes, the 1312flt 66mm rocket launcher. IIRC, it went under several improvement programs to become a very effective tennis ball launcher. Despite it's itended original use, it proved difficult to adapt it into an effective mess cannon. It was for this weapon the MEK/Trike fuel mix was developed.

But it did have a demoralising effect on the enemy. You should have seen 78Sqns faces when we turned up with a rocket launcher - obviously designed with the purpose of doing real damage!

[Ayla]

I am shocked at serving and ex serving members of the armed forces posting in a public forum the secrets of Mess Cannoneering.

Just think for a moment what could happen if Al Qaeda or a local scout troop were to pick up on this advanced ballistic information!

I am sure none of us would like to see Gordon Brown or even Des receiving a Tennis ball at over 300 mph in the Solar plexus or any other part of their anatomy!

I myself may be a target and am now forced to head to a local sports outlet to buy some sort of racket!

Think on!

[Bushfiva]

Even as we speak, people are being monitored for unusual tennis ball and potato purchases.

[alwayzinit]

Not a cannon more an anti personnel mine...........

Take one large dutch cabbage

bore "crowy"holes top and bottom

cut flagettes in side of cabbage

place on bar

light white fuses ..........and leg it

serves approx 200 in less than a second:ok: or it did at the Burns Night at KSS '86

The other mine is the Flour Mine.

1 x placcy bag of flour (sliced bed bag 2 cup fulls of flour)

place mine behind any large group of wheels ( preferably US as their mess kit has correct contrast with flour!)

Stick crowy in top of bag

light fuse

retire sharpish........

After loud report wheels all stare at eachother from the front completely missing the photographic negative effect at the rear of their kit:ugh:

Oh happy days



Alwayz

[Dan Winterland]

The thunderflash in a large box of Rice Crispies was always impressive! :E

[Ayla]

Gents, my previous note of caution about mess cannon info applies equally well to the sensitive information being displayed on this site about Vegetable IED's!

[Bus14]

Concure with previous posts about the fuel/air mix changing with use.

Officer's Mess, Belize, circa 1982. Mess cannon made from SNEB rocket packaging tube. Performance was dropping off due to heating and/or pressure loss in barrel. Considered a rebuild, but rejected this option in favour of a bottle of oxygen from the medical centre to boost oxidant.

An effective short term fix. However, have been A2/G1/Z1 ever since due to high tone deafness:D!

Have fun. Don't crash!
Bus14

[Monty77]

I have no wish to come across as a killjoy old fart (I am still on the course), but there came a point in the mid to late eighties where all the cabbage/thunderflash behaviour stopped.

Directives must have come down from on high. Any Staish aspiring to Air Rank was obviously told that any such banter would be a career stopper. Shawbury was one of the last enclaves to hold out and I fondly remember taking part in a SAS-stylie kidnapping in 1988 of an attractive WRAF from a dining-in night clad in gas-mask and black overalls to the sound of exploding cabbages with some bizarre remote-controlled car that whizzed down the table and squirted the PMC with water. It was a big op, there was also so much orange smoke in the bloody room that our target had to be selected by the grope technique. It was dark and we went through several targets, some willing, some not, some male (to our embarrassment), some indeterminate. Some were probably even senior officers, but we could have put that down to unavoidable collateral damage.

Have you ever tried saying sorry to someone for feeling their private parts in a dark room full of orange smoke when there is a large thunderclap of noise every few seconds? Wearing a gasmask? It's not easy, I assure you.

Anyway, we succeeded in woman-handling the WRAF out. She was wearing that ghastly light blue spandex RAF long evening dress effort they used to issue, regardless of whether you resembled a rhino or Claudia Schiffer.

Fortunately, she was quite fit in all respects and struggled a bit, causing said spandex to ride up and reveal some top quality webbing. Visible only through the orange smoke pierced by vivid flashes from the thundies. It must have been quite erotic if you were sober and looking in the right direction.

I bet nobody was.

[NRU74]

I have no wish to come across as a killjoy old fart

Me neither ....but if you guys are in the UK you should be aware of how seriously offences under the various Firearms Acts are now viewed by the judiciary - they are guided by the main sentencing case of R v Avis - which says, basically, that any offence, other than very minor transgressions, warrants a custodial sentence. The problem will arise if anyone is injured or significant damage is caused and plod gets involved.
Take care !

[Monty77]

NRU74

Absolutely. Before I got carried away. The burnt nav at Valley and the windowed kid at Benson put a stopper on Mess Rugby or any other such banter. Senior officers will now leave the bar rather than control/lead their lads.

This is the age in which we live. Don't get me wrong, that nav was really quite burnt and it was all wrong. Unfortunately we have now entered a new time. I still played bicycle-back jousting in the Mess at Linton as recently as 2001 and won spectacularly. Bloody hurt, spectacular bruise, bike totally knackered. Not a 3 striper in sight.

[teeteringhead]

One fondly recalls the minimalist answer to the TF in cabbage device (aka instant coleslaw).

Firecrackers (from 28 in HK) cut into individual "bangs" and inserted into individual grapes. A (very) short fuse and a skillfully timed lob resulted in the "airburst grape". :ok:

[NutLoose]

Dan Winterland (http://www.pprune.org/members/2724-dan-winterland)

Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 2,204


The thunderflash in a large box of Rice Crispies was always impressive! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif


Chocolate or Normal?

[Seymour Belvoir]

Update from the front.

Decided to go with 3 ft of plastic drain pipe sealed with a propper screw-on end cap. Propellant made from a half full, small, plastic water bottle with a few pieces of dry-ice added, screw cap securely fastened and inserted cap first into the barrel of the launcher.

Quickly throw in the projectile (tennis ball) and stand well back. Wait for about 30 seconds while the dry-ice fizzes off and expands the water bottle to bursting point, then watch the projectile blast about 100 mtrs and win the competition. Good, loud bang too!

Thanks for all the good info and help.



Water and dry-ice. I've seen it. It's the future.

[esa-aardvark]

I wasn't there, but about 25 or so years ago some people
were at an Italian Air base in Sardinia, firing a couple
of sounding rockets 60 or 70 miles straight up. At the end of the campaign they found they had a few rocket igniters left
over. Since they were in the Officers mess and had had a drink or two they decided to connect a battery to one of these. Apparently after that it's not really necessary to open
the windows anymore.