medical restriction and impact on employment

[downunderscouser]

Hi,

I have a class 1 medical with a restriction due to not fully meeting the ICAO requirements. This is due to poor vision in one eye because of amblyopia. CASA see me as functionally monocular.

I am therefore only looking at pursuing a domestic flying career and ideally would like to get into somewhere like virgin blue or qantaslink.

Does anyone here have any knowledge on how a restriction like mine is going to affect my career domestically?

Andy

[Howard Hughes]

No problem, I know of one person with Virgin who has only 10% vision in one eye! And that's the good one!;)

It shouldn't be a problem.

[downunderscouser]

only 10% of vision but no doubt they probably can wear vision correction

my issue however is amblyopia and therefore cannot be corrected.

[downunderscouser]

Ideally I would like to hear from people in Virgin Blue or Qantaslink or similar domestic carriers who might know that company's policy towards restricted class 1 holders.

Has anyone else had a similar restriction? How did it affect them?

You see I am at a point in my training where I am not sure if I will be able to make much of career out of flying to make it worthwhile to throw the money in. In my "day job" doing IT I am earning $100k+ though I am not flying... but in aviation i will not make even half that much without being in an international carrier.

[Howard Hughes]

Ring them directly and ask them, that way you will not be relying on hearsay to make such a possibly costly decision.

Cheers, HH.:ok:

[elche]

downunderscouser,

Can you put in a good word in for me when you leave your I.T job?? :}

Mate, I have a disability which CASA feels i would be unable to do any mustering or fly choppers - and it's written in my Class2!! I know I can work at getting rid of them for the Class 1, but I still don't stand a chance in hell getting into an Airline. Then I have to go out bush and compete against abled bodied youngsters - I'm still at it though.

If flying is your dream job, and it ain't all about money then keep at it. Even a job with the RFDS you'll be hitting close to the 100k mark!!:ok:

Now.. about that I.T job... :E

[downunderscouser]

actually that IT job is contracting, and unfortunately only for one more week until i find the next one :)

I couldn't find a suitable contact number on the Virgin Blue website, and I emailed Qantaslink from their application page. Hopefully will get some useful feedback.

[Snatch]

Even a job with the RFDS you'll be hitting close to the 100k mark!!

Elche

Not sure that the number is very accurate there - more like $55k I thought, last time I viewed the EBA. :suspect:

[downunderscouser]

FTDK: I'd prefer people to only make statements like that if they have actual knowledge of a company's policy. I have known many times I have listened to people without direct knowledge and listened to them only to find out I missed out.

[downunderscouser]

I'm not the businessman/entrepeneur type. My IT skill set is not really one I could really turn into a business that would require a plane for any purpose. Besides I have ambition to fly something a bit.... bigger....

[Hugh Jarse]

FTDK - I suggest you stick to your area of expertise - (airline recruiting perhaps not being one of them). :p

Downunderscouser, my previous employer (for whom I also worked in Pilot Recruiting for 7 years) had the policy that provided you could exercise the privileges of your Class 1, you would be considered for the job. I know of at least 2 applicants who had limitations on their medicals due vision problems. They were hired regardless, and went on to be valued employees.

A case of policy matching reality...:ok:

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't give up without looking into it thoroughly. If you can, get onto the recruiting departments directly and speak with them before writing yourself off.

Good luck with your efforts :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

Downunder,

In a time where there are lots of jobs going then all you will need is to be able excercise the priviliges of a Class 1 medical, this might be with or without a restriction.

When there aren't many jobs going then employers have the luxury to pick and choose and thus your identical twin in terms of experience/quals and performance is likely to get the job over you if he has a perfect bill of health.

Having said all that i think you should have a real hard think about giving away the career in IT when it can earn you that sort of money. I understand the passion for flying and all that as I've been in your shoes. Aviation is up and down and the cash on offer when compared to what you can earn in my opinion doesn't really justify the investment (financial,time,emotional ect).

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

FTDK - I suggest you stick to your area of expertise

Hahaha! Hughie, you don't know how funny that is!

If I subjected downunderscouser to my particular area of expertise it may well fix his amblyopia!

Dr :8

[Lasiorhinus]

And if you fix it for him, Dr K, no doubt he'll be very happy.

And able to express that happiness in ways Myrtle can't.:ok:

Amblyopia, on the other hand, is unlikely to affect both your eyes, so provided you have one "good" one, which you can meet 6/6 visual acuity standards in, be it corrected or uncorrected, you should be deemed medically fit to exercise the privileges of your Class 1 medical.
What is the exact wording of the restriction? (PM if you'd prefer).


The information in this post is in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor. This PPRuNer does not have the answers to all problems. Answers to specific problems may not apply to everyone. If you notice medical symptoms or feel ill, you should consult your doctor.

[Clearedtoreenter]

Downunder,

I got that many years ago, and still have same CPL and Class 1. The 'Australia only 'restriction' is actually a concession, which I think even here won't go to ATPL - so charter and instructing is as far as I got - and frankly I am grateful for that. (Elsewhere in the world, I am only allowed a day VFR PPL). However, I would guess there is no reason in theory why you could not be employed as co-pilot on an RPT dash or something. However, a mate of mine who has just been taken on as Dash co-pilot was told to get an ATPL before they would do anything with him.

Unfortunately, and infuritating as he may be sometimes, the Dr might be right again. However, don't give up, build some experience in the lower depths of GA and who knows..... In theory it could happen.

[Jabawocky]

Unfortunately, and infuritating as he may be sometimes, the Dr might be right again.

Edit ya post quick..... he has a fat enough head as it is!:suspect:

Where is FLOPT when you need him......:}

[Torres]

downunderscouser

Regardless of the postulations of others, take Hugh Jarse advice.

In the area of domestic airline recruitment and training, he definitely has the credentials and runs of the board. :ok:

[downunderscouser]

I spoke to someone from CASA licensing/medicals earlier on the phone, albeit an office person not a specialist.

They told me that I cannot get an ATPL with this restriction.

I find that totally absurd. In a time when there is a pilot shortage and decent candidates are being refused even though they can do the job safely with a medical issue that does not affect their ability to fly safely.

sure i would have problems if I lost my good eye in flight, but if something happened to injure a pilots eye i don't think that they would be in any state to fly a plane, good remaining eye or otherwise. :P

What has an ATPL got to do with medicals??? it's surely a knowledge and experience level qualification. A person can be ATPL but not fly internationally.

I am starting to consider taking legal action on CASA medicals since I wrote in to them when I first started my training in 2003 and found myself with this limitation "valid for Australian airspace only". I asked what effect this restriction would have on my career and what limitations it would place and was told it would only prevent me flying internationally and that I would need permission from each airspace authority I flew through if I wanted to fly internationally. I explicitly asked if I would be able to fly domestic airlines and they said yes. That was however over the phone.

At no point was I told I could not hold an ATPL. I would never have continued my training. Now I feel all my efforts have been for nothing. As much as I love flying I could not be satisfied doing it for the fun of it... I set out for a career in aviation and it is the one and only goal in life I have ever had. Now the only goal I have is vanishing because of a technicality over my eyesight... which is good enough for me to play soccer, if my eyesight was so bad I would never be able to do that because my brain would not be able to work out how far the ball is from me or what direction/speed it is travelling. But I do have depth perception. I can spot planes further out than some pilots I have flown with who have 20/20 vision both eyes!

ForkedTailDoctorKiller: if you have some suggestion on how I could attempt to correct my eyesight please share.

To answer the earlier question the exact wording of my restriction is:

5. Holder does not fully meet requirements of ICAO Convention chapter 6 annex 1.

[AussieNick]

Since amblyopiais more commonly know as lazy eye, i highly doubt there would be a problem. but as others have said, just give Virgin, QL, J* or who ever and ask them and post back here, cause i'm intersted to see the outcome too.

[Clearedtoreenter]

Edit ya post quick..... he has a fat enough head as it is!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/cwm13.gif


A fat head maybe - but obviously a heart of gold - especially when it comes to Garmin!

Downunder,

Funny old business this lazy eye stuff. Largely it is inherited form ya parents so blame them not CASA. It is sometimes accompanied by colour deficiency, which complicates matters a bit further. I came from a family of 3 kids, two of which got it. As toddlers, we had to crawl around almost blind with stoopid patch things over the good eye to try and make the bad one work. My sister even had an operation at the age of 4 to 'fix' it. None of which worked of course. Strangely enough all of my 3 kids have 20/20 vision and both eyes work perfectly. Pity none of them have the slightest inclination towards aviation. BTW, I guess like you my good eye is 6/6 and the 'bad ' eye has excellent periferal vison. They seem to think we lack depth perception, which is BS of course - but they still say no to ATPL. Don't give up - keep on 'em! There must be a one-eyed ATPL somewhere who you can use to prove the point.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

In a time when there is a pilot shortage

I think that only lasted a couple of days before it was overtaken by an emerging worldwide recession!

I have recently return from a quick flit around the world.

The US is in recession - but nobody is talking about it!
The UK is in recession - and some are starting to talk about it.

Oz is being cushioned by the resources sector - but look at the direction the A$ is headed.

Airlines are going broke around the world!

Hard to see the Rat, Hymen Intactus, DeathStar an the Pussy all surviving.

Dr :8

[clawmonstar]

Wsa told years ago by a DAME that due to a non-specific medical condition I probably would not get into an airline (although the condition never prevented me from holding a class 1).

How wrong he was! Dont give up.

[Mr. Hat]

downunder, mate i personally know of quite a few people that were told over the phone "you have no chance" for various reasons. All of these people seemed to defy the odds.....(get my drift?)

In aviation you will be told time and time again "you have no chance" ect. Its up to you to find the how.

One of the guys i talk about has a vision problem - he has to be one of the best people i've ever flown with in every regard (yes he flies a jet ATPL ect).

Do you research find others in your situation.

[downunderscouser]

In the end though, if I can't get an unrestricted class 1, I can't fly internationally by LAW, right?

so airlines will not touch me for that reason alone... and if I can't get an ATPL then I can never fly for an airline surely?

[O2]

Once had a restriction Day Cpl Australian airspace only...... I'm now overseas in command of a 737 800.

Have a go mate....:ok:

[Kiwiguy]

Interestingly I just looked up Amblyopia on Wikipedia and it suggests there that the affected eye can be improved by wearing a patch over the good eye.

Aye aye skipper.... Don't try this at work folks :p

[flying-spike]

Get a patch over both eyes and work for CASA!

[Peter Fanelli]

The US is in recession - but nobody is talking about it!
Recession is defined as 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth.
That has not happened in the US. (Recently)
The US has seen growth, slow growth for the last six months or more.
The US economy is very slow but it is not in a recession except in the eyes of CNN and other news media who are interested only in keeping people scared for the purposes of manipulating the election.
I can fully understand how you could have been persuaded during your recent stay that we are in recession but if you just consider that media reporting of economic concerns is on a par with media reporting of aviation matters, then things will become clear.
Come to think of it, is there anything in the media you can believe anymore?

[downunderscouser]

CASA called me back and confirmed I CAN hold ATPL as a monocular pilot.

It is colour blindness that prevents you holding ATPL.

I have started wearing the patch again - gives me really bad headaches though trying to process info with the weaker eye because even though everything is in focus it is like your brain gets confused trying to read small print etc. I will see how improved things get after a month of patching while in the house. I think I wore the patch for half a day or so and when I took the patch off, whoa... strange sensation. It's like my brain is overloading on visual information seeing things completely different or something. So the patching must be having some effect.

I try to play computer games while the eye is patched since it forces my brain to process movement and patterns. I fly GA aircraft (with large aircraft there is too much necessity to read instruments with fine print on them - GA I can fly looking out of the plane only) on flight sim and racing cars on rFactor. I am sure there are exercises that are specific to this though.

[Mr. Hat]

It is colour blindness that prevents you holding ATPL.

you might be wrong on that one...

[downunderscouser]

I can only say what CASA have told me and what Qantas have confirmed for me.

The medical officer for Qantas also said I should keep my eye on things in the future, said in a way that sounded like a subtle hint that monocularity may be looked at differently in the future and that international flight may be possible.

The other work around is to get an FAA Medical with a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability) to prove that my condition does not affect my abilities to fly safely. That would satisfy the ICAO requirement, and having the CASA medical will satisfy entry requirement of having an australian medical certificate.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Quote:

The US is in recession - but nobody is talking about it!
Recession is defined as 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth.
That has not happened in the US. (Recently)
The US has seen growth, slow growth for the last six months or more.
The US economy is very slow but it is not in a recession except in the eyes of CNN and other news media who are interested only in keeping people scared for the purposes of manipulating the election.
I can fully understand how you could have been persuaded during your recent stay that we are in recession but if you just consider that media reporting of economic concerns is on a par with media reporting of aviation matters, then things will become clear.
Come to think of it, is there anything in the media you can believe anymore?


Hmmmmm!

Dr :8

[kimwestt]

G'day - You need to check with CASA AVMED about the "Valid in Aust only." I think you will find that the wording has been changed to Doesn't comply fully with ICAO requirements. I had a conversation with the boss at AVMED recently, about this very matter, and he couldn't see any problem with operating internationally. I went to the trouble of getting a USA class 1 medical some time ago, no problems at all. And I have only one (1) working eye!!
Ring CASA AVMED, they are a great bunch of people, good commonsense, and will put you on the right path.
Cheers:ok:
PS N0-I don't work for CASA-heaven forbid!!!!!

[J_I_Logan]

Hi Downunder. I have pretty severe Amblyopia in my left eye (brain), it can't even be determined what the acuity is, everything is blurry no matter how big, close, small, faraway, etc. I can very barely fake a 6/12 left eye on a very good day. My overall vision (thanks to my right eye) is 6/4 - 6/3. I have no other visual problems.

I love to fly ultralights but it's an expensive hobby. I have no problem with only flying in Australia but is there any possibility of getting ANY flying job?

BTW: which opthamologist did you go to to get your provisional Class 1?

Cheers

[downunderscouser]

As far as i am told by CASA Avmed I do not meet the ICAO requirements ergo i cannot fly internationally on my medical.

I have seen many responses from people saying they have careers in the airlines even though they have similar issues to mine, but are any of you flying internationally?

I was considering doing an FAA Class 1 and seeing if i can get an unrestricted medical that way but I am told that will be no different, I will again end up with a medical with a waiver that prevents me flying internationally.

[mostlytossas]

I find it hard to believe a lazy eye would stop you.
My brother flies for an airline and has no problem.
He not only has a lazy eye but every other part of his body is lazy too!:}