Challenge for anti-AOA boys!!

[yokebearer]

I would like to challenge all the brave and bright anti AOA souls on this damned webpage to propose solutions to all the following problems/violations.
Some of these issues might be to the advantage of some of you - that is not the point - what is important is the way they are imposed on us.

And don't be shy to add to the list.

Violation of contract/spirit of contract/seniority through -
direct entry FO,
no bypass for SO's,
direct entry CPT,
extensions causing serious upgrade delays,
local pilots not getting full bypass,
COS 08,
different salary scales,
FO's on base now getting bypass which locks them happily on the base for many years and prevents anybody else from getting that base slot or bypass pay slot,
A vs B scale,
49 ers still not resolved,
ex Oasis guys hired ,
ex Oasis guys on lower payscales - maybe they deserve it but its still unacceptable in terms of the divide and rule strategy of management,
staff travel / FOC issues,
no real payrise to reflect inflation in 10 years,
rostering / scheduling abuses,

etc etc etc

[yokebearer]

227 views in 10 hours - and no replies.

Mmmmmmm - didn't think you had any bright ideas - now I know.

[flyingkiwi]

Mmmm not a bright post really, any anti AOA members will simply reply, what has the AOA done about any the issues mentioned, did they even put up a protest about all these issues, RP08 impossed and not a squeek from ST, direct entry captains....nothing... SOs being bypassed by direct entry FOs still nothing...

Non members may have the same answers as members but like i am, they are stunned at how much silence 1% bought the members to date. A lot of the silence has come from previous leaders and i am hopeful that the new GC team will bring a new spirit to the table. I for myself am reserving judgment on the new leadership and as i have promised my friends hounding me to join, if the new leadership can provide me proof of one change for good in our T&C then i will be giving my 1%.

My answers,
yes i agree we need a much larger membership to make a change but until then the AOA needs to speak up publicly about these issues. Rally the troops let the SOs know that they have noticed how the company is abusing them on there upgrades. Most of the SOs i talk too are dispondant about the AOA because they dont even think the AOA cares about these injustices.

Contract compliance.
Ok ST probably had a point that if the AOA went into formal CC then the company would react and cease any dialoge, but the pilot body is not entirely stupid. How about sending out an official memo stating, "we feel CC is a strong form of action and we would prefer to continue in our discusions with the company but i would like to quote the ***** Chief pilot who said if we would stop working G days we would get the pay rise we wanted." I was in a fleet forum where he said just that. Now all the members should be able to read between the lines and what is the company going to say, "were not going to talk to you because you quoted one of our managers" hmmm that will go down well in the SCMP.

How about a response to the Company updates on fridays, ie the current airbus news that strongly suggested we go into discretion on the CNS-BNE-HKG day. The AOA should put out counter spin reminding the crew what the limits are and why we should follow them. The company sets up the schedual so tight to save a buck why should flight safety be compromised when they could put 1 more crew up per night in the Brisbane hotel. Lots of guys rightly or wrongly dont go into vol 1 and dont know the limits on these types of operations. and make these responses public, put them up on the notice board, sign up a member of the GC onto pprune without an alias or as AOAGC and have a thread running purely for these posts....

Membership.
Stop all the petty he quit then, he was ASL, he is DPA, he...did this or that... anyone and everyone should be able to join without question.

heres a contraversial suggestion for membership. I know 1% isnt too much but how about having a 2 tiered membership,
tier 1 priced at 0.5% this is a contract negotiating membership that helps cover all related costs, as a member they are required to act as a member etc and they have full voting rights. This membership does not have the benifits of legal protection except for Cos issues, and no loss of licence insurance.

tier 2 priced at the current subsription which includes all the other benifits, ie legal protection loss of licence insurance....

Well thats my 2 cents worth.

Kiwi
ps before anyone points out spelling i know i cant spell and to be honest dont care.

[goathead]

If I was a new joiner and reading this thread i would be wondering what the F### is going on at CX , and think holy F###.
JUST READ THE FIRST POST TO THIS THREAD
ITS ALL FACT !
SAD BUT TRUE:ugh:

[trevfly]

Dont forget the 80 Ex Ka guys who have all greedly signed across on common joining date of July 1st. Therefore, even if they do their courses in Aug or Sept next year, they will still be senior to SO or FO joining today.

The KA guys are not DEFO with rapid upgrade depending on performance. They have automatic commands promised in their T&Cs as agreed in their contracts.

Hence the 40 or so DECs guys enjoying their final days in ka before they steel more qualified SFOs commands at CX. Piss1n it up in Wanchai at the companies expense, you bet. Life is a breeze for these guys and they know it.

And why dont the Ka guys give a dam about their buddies in CX? Cos they never gave a dam about their collegues in KA.

They never joined the union (well 11 did once they wanted to become trainers)

They took commands out of seniority. There were so many bids in from KA guys for HK and MAN base but the company found it easier to recruit these guys as they were oh so willing to accept the low T&Cs on offer.

Now they have the cheek to complain about the pay cut they are having by joining CX. And join the AOA and give up 1% of salary? haha good luck in recruiting them.:D

[Very Tired]

Hey Trev,

I thought we hadn't heard from you for a couple of days on your favourite rant. :rolleyes:

I see you still have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. All your points have been refuted on a previous thread. I note that you haven't responded to any of the posts that expose the salacious crap you are spouting. Never mind, you've succeeded in portraying yourself as an embittered imbecile who fails to grasp simple truths. :D

As I've suggested before, you might like to pick up the phone and speak to the people involved so you can find out the truth, but it seems you prefer to live in your own mean, bitter, twisted world of hate. Just don't expect others to join you in the gutter. :bored:

[Fly747]

Trev, you need to calm down and discover the facts or this will torment your mind and not do your mental health any good.

The guys transferring from KA were all good Swire Group employees who had to give up their seniority in Dragonair and transfer across to CX, another part of the group. They are all CX employees as of 1st July and are now earning their seniority on the CX list. If still flying Dragonair liveried aircraft then they are doing so as CX employees seconded to KA until their CX course dates; they are obviously senior to FOs or SOs joining after them.

They took nothing out of seniority, anyone at KA could have bid for the positions in KA which they held.

They do not have automatic commands in CX, all have signed contracts as First Officer (Rapid Command), they have to pass the course like anyone else.
You had better get used to it because there are another 400 Airbus pilots at KA who must eventually come across in due course of time.

The only thing you are correct about is the special, and until now secret, "Piss it up in Wanchai" allowance which all KA freighter boys received!

[cxhk]

Trev, you need to calm down and discover the facts or this will torment your mind and not do your mental health any good.

The guys transferring from KA were all good Swire Group employees who had to give up their seniority in Dragonair and transfer across to CX, another part of the group. They are all CX employees as of 1st July and are now earning their seniority on the CX list. If still flying Dragonair liveried aircraft then they are doing so as CX employees seconded to KA until their CX course dates; they are obviously senior to FOs or SOs joining after them.

They took nothing out of seniority, anyone at KA could have bid for the positions in KA which they held.

They do not have automatic commands in CX, all have signed contracts as First Officer (Rapid Command), they have to pass the course like anyone else.
You had better get used to it because there are another 400 Airbus pilots at KA who must eventually come across in due course of time.

The only thing you are correct about is the special, and until now secret, "Piss it up in Wanchai" allowance which all KA freighter boys received!

Same group BUT different seniority list!!! So if you quit KA (either you are being forced to by the company or on your own terms), why should you get to upgrade to command at CX faster than any SFO/FO/SOs who worked at CX (and on the CX seniority list) much longer than those KA boys? It is true that CX/KA is now the same group, but it will seems unfair to the CX boys if a 10 year KA pilot get promoted at CX before a 10 year CX guys... to be honest... a KA pilot who took a job at CX should join the bottom of the list, just like any new joiner... it is as simple as that... CX brought KA, not the other way around... if it is the other way around... I am happy to join the bottom of the KA queue and I will have no complains...

[ACMS]

Yes all KA Pilot's should join at the bottom of the list on the day we bought KA, no earlier.

They should still be protected in their own position in KA, no CX Pilot should be able to take their command either.

We need the company to abide by the seniority, bypass pay and assessment system and not abuse it like they ARE doing now.

It should be 100% transperant.

THAT'S WHY WE NEED A BIG STRONG UNITED UNION.

[Very Tired]

Yes all KA Pilot's should join at the bottom of the list on the day we bought KA, no earlier.

ACMS, for once we are in full agreement. That's the basis for any merger deal between the DPA and AOA. Both unions recognise the need to treat each other's seniority list with respect. A properly negotiated merger deal will open up opportunities for both groups of pilots that respects the seniority systems currently in place. It is likely that the biggest winners would be those junior Cathay FOs / SOs that do not want to wait 10+ years for a command opportunity in HKG as command slots in KA will be available to them in less than half that time.

....a KA pilot who took a job at CX should join the bottom of the list, just like any new joiner

cxhk, where do you think they went? All KA pilots who signed over to CX went right to the bottom of the CX list. It's not a secret, check out the seniority list.

[trevfly]

VT, I would happily expose your self denial about not taking well qualified, current 747 CX SFOs commands, but do I really need to spell it out to anyone except the KA bailers?

How much 747 time did you and your command grabbing buddies have before joining KA?

The KA freighter operation has been decimanted by you and your cowering buddies , who were blown over by a light and variable cathay sneeze.

If you had stood up to and taken commands IN seniority, IN KA , there still would be a KA freighter. However, you bailed. Why? To keep your commands . If you had a KA command in seniority, that would be Airbus, NOT boeing.

Meanwhile the current and better qualified bunch of regular KA guys have lost their freighter operation, hijacked by the Mafia / Ex RAF brigade. Pathetic.

You will always be despised in CX, whatever happens. Your history speaks for itself. Join the Union, use its resources to fight your cause, then lay down , roll over and take the "easy" option in CX.

Greedy little boys who have no loyalties to either their current or future employer.

And it seems those of you who have signed accross (yes u fly747) seem to enjoy the fact you are ahead of the rest of us still in KA (" who must eventually join" speak for yourself 747) and are enjoying rubbing our noses in it. This is really indicative of the current crop of ka freighter crew, need I say more?

Thankfully ,we still in KA are all made of sterner stuff than you lot, we join a union and stick together. Yes, a pay rise, remember that? Didnt see many FCS guys at the AGM did we?

Joining a Union, something the Ex FCS freighter guys might want to consider, oneday. It works wonders.

[Very Tired]

Trev, again you know nothing of the truth - you really are becoming boring :zzz::zzz::zzz:

Either go out and discover the truth of the matter or get a life - I really don't care which but your tireseome little one man tirade is only harming your own reputation and certainly doing nothing to enhance the cohesiveness of our common pilot group.

[trevfly]

Ok if its really of no interest, I'll leave you lot alone.

[Basil]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l179/jmhendrix8/toothless_tiger.jpg