How an airline SHOULD be run..

[Ultralights]

IF a low cost carrier can provide service like this, then why cant a full size carrier like QF?



A fluid leak forced Deepak's Southwest flight from Oakland to Seattle back to the airport. Southwest shifted passengers to a waiting plane, and everyone made it to Seattle about two hours late. Within a week, Southwest sent passengers an extraordinarily honest and informative letter detailing exactly what went wrong, and by way of apology, tossed in a $175 voucher.

Deepak writes:

With all the bad press airlines have been receiving of late, here's a positive story for you. My wife & I were on a flight back to Seattle from Oakland a few weeks ago (Aug 10th). Almost immediately after take off, the pilot came on the intercom and said that a pressure sensor had gone off, and we had to go back to Oakland. After a collective groan from everybody on board, we turned back around and landed. They kept us on the plane for a short amount of time while the mechanic examined the issue. He apparently determined it wasn't fixable in short order, so they deplaned us, and put us on another plane. All in all, the delay was maybe 2 hours tops, and everybody at Southwest was very nice, as were all of the passengers.

So we arrive in Seattle a couple of hours later than expected, no big deal for us at all, given it was a Sunday afternoon, and we weren't in a rush to get anyplace but home. A week or so later, we each received the following letter from Melissa Chalupa, Assistant Manager, Proactive Customer Service Communications. Sorry I don't have a scanner, so I'm transcribing it instead. Included with this letter was a $175 voucher for Southwest!

I'm already a pretty loyal Southwest customer, but this was an unexpected (to me at least) gesture!

Southwest's letter:

I'm sorry for the unexpected circumstances surrounding the disruption of your Aug 10 flight from Oakland. In addition to my apologies, I'd like to provide you with some information about what happened that afternoon.
Shortly after takeoff, the Pilots received a low pressure indication for one of the two independent hydraulic systems (A&B) on the aircraft. In response to this situation the Captain returned to have the aircraft inspected. In this case, the problem was with the A hydraulic System - there was a fluid leak. After speaking with our Maintenance Department, I learned that the supply line which helps operate one of the movable panels on the aircraft's wing surface was leaking hydraulic fluid, and as such, the corresponding line was then replaced to fix the problem.

Thank you for your patience while alternate flight arrangements were made to continue your trip. With the hope that you will grant us the opportunity to prove there are better experiences to have with us, I'm sending a LUV Voucher to each person who was onboard your flight that we invite you to apply toward future Southwest reservations. We truly appreciate your valued patronage, and we look forward to welcoming you back again real soon.

Kind Regards
Melissa Chalupa

Enclose : One Southwest LUV Voucher.

Compare Southwest's response to U.S. Airways'. The situations are obviously different, but Southwest is practically eager to throw around vouchers to keep customers happy. As we've seen, happy customers mean profitable companies. The difference is just one of the reasons U.S. Airways' profit plummeted by almost 20% last quarter, while Southwest's soared 11%.

link to original source here (http://consumerist.com/5043970/this-apology-letter-from-southwest-is-refreshingly-honest-and-informative)

[Tempo]

Get real....Do British Airways/Singapore/United/Air New Zealand/Cathay/Emirates etc etc send every single passenger a letter when their flight is delayed or cancelled?? I think not. And do YOU expect a letter from these airlines if it happens to you? I know that I have never expected a letter when it has happened to me. I realise every passenger thinks THEY are the single most important customer the airline has. However, these passengers that think that need to build a bridge and get over it. Aircraft break down, weather delays cause problems and not everything runs to schedule all the time.

[blueloo]

And do YOU expect a letter from these airlines if it happens to you?

I expect most passengers have got used to a lack of service and these days - they expect nothing.

Clearly some passengers appreciate it when an airline goes out of their way, and raises the bar. Small things like this can help loyalty massively.

[Mr. Hat]

Ultralights,

Their high standard extends not only to thire customers but also to the employees. As far as I'm aware, The CEO (who I think is retired now) was gifted with a Harley Davidson for his 60th birthday. The bike was purchased by the pilot group.

The CEO worked out very early in the piece that having happy staff would pay big dividends. In fact in the book about southwest its made clear that the pilot group control 40% of the budget and thus having them happy is good for business.

40 will become 50 some day soon and all I can think of is what lengths some people go to to screw the very people that control the fuel/cashflow.

A happy employee can save thousands, unhappy can cost millions.

[Eastwest Loco]

Tempo

This is an example of a pretty classy effort at proactive marketing.

I have had clients recently presented with a $1200.00 AUD voucher for a messy diversion is South Africa.

They have forgiven the weather diversion.

Positive marketing does work.

EWL

[Swanrider]

That's why Southwest is and has been since it's 1st flight, so damn successful!

Tempo - You're in a service industry sunshine, in case you weren't aware. Those with the best service survive. This little episode of customer service needs to be tattooed on the insides of many CEO's and bean-counters spectacles, around this region. What you speak of is no excuse for mediocrity. Everyone likes to think the world revolves around them and that they are important... here at least someone cared.

You know as well as I do that much is built on perceptions, (which are often wrong) but this piece of good-will, will spread quickly on the bush telegraph and gain 10-fold the number of pax, I bet.

Good on them:ok:

[priapism]

That is great service recovery !!!

[Jabawocky]

In the USA I choose Southwest over every other airline.

Sure its not full service, but it is good & reliable!

J

[Eastwest Loco]

The thing I really like about the Southwest letter was the complete transparency and full disclosure of the fault that caused the disruption.

That and the crystal clear indication that one of two systems only failed, and what that system did in simplistic terms.

I might add that the Airline I mentioned in my earlier post was indeed QF - well done guys and girls.

It is however very refreshing to see a low cost carrier taking ownership of a problem.

I have reviewed my opinions in relation to booking them for my clients.

Best all

EWL

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I've flown SWA many times. They know what they are (a no frills airline) and they know how to do it well. I've been delayed several times and diverted once (fog into San Diego). I sure as hell didn't get any vouchers but I did enjoy reading my book on the bus.

Actually, on another flight into San Diego (which is a sight to behold as you land past all the skyscrapers about a mile away... I was there on Sept 11, it was strange to be in the city and see nobody on approach)... (I digress.) On a wonderful 8/8 of sun day the crew executed a rather late missed approach for some reason (never explained) and a few minutes later the FA got on and explained that we'd be landing shortly and could expect to disembark at around half past the hour "...once Wilbur and Orville are able to get us down."

Nothing wrong with setting the bar a bit higher.

FRQ CB

[Kangaroo Court]

When you consider the fleet size of Southwest Airlines, (over 400 aircraft), it's really pretty remarkable! They do a lot of short hops too, so their number of customers must be enormous.

[Capt Claret]

Hey TEMPO, you're in management. Right? :p

Boy did you miss the message in the originating post. :D

[Lodown]

Southwest realizes that customers have a choice and they might choose to exercise that choice in the future with another airline, so the company does whatever is reasonably possible to retain the customer. The difference in Australia is that the airline managers recognize the Aussie shareholder has a wide choice and the passenger doesn't and treats each accordingly.

SWA started on small hops: Dallas, Houston and San Antonio were the three airports initially served. Got to love an airline that maintains 20 minute turnarounds. Airline allocates seating preferences on a first come, first served basis. If you get your boarding pass early, you get your choice of seat. Late comers get whatever's left over, which may involve separating groups, but in my experience, most passengers know what to expect and can be very accommodating if asked to change seats for family or personal reasons.

[Kangaroo Court]

Yeah, you have gotta love that Tempo! He must be in the running to ruin another great airline somewhere with an attitude like that one. No wonder we've got problems.

[speedbirdhouse]

There was an excellent article in the Bulletin or such like some years ago.

South West actively encourage employees to stay long term.

Not only do they pay above the industry standard in the US but they also amazingly DON'T go out of their way to treat their staff like the enemy.

Spooky concepts from another planet for anybody working at the rat.

[lowerlobe]

Watching Darth read that first post on how an airline should be run would be like watching a 6 year old read a paper on neurolinguistic programming.....

Come to think of it,watching Darth read a paper on neurolinguistic programming is exactly the same thing....:E

The chances of that happening and of Darth understanding one iota or even caring about the effect is so remote as not to be even considered...

Hang on...nah.....the difference is that the 6 year old would probably care...

[Skystar320]

Maybe the cabin crew of our major airlines should take note aswell, especially the big Q.

Instead of trying to look pretty with cakes of makeup on, how about interacting more with the paying public?

an extra smile here and there, asking how their day went would go along way instead of the normal

"Do you want meat or fish"

[Lodown]

Funny thing is that up to two years ago, most of the responses to this article on Pprune would have agreed with Tempo. Change of times and attitudes?

[Buster Hyman]

I reckon, that in the race to be the lowest cost airline, little things like service were left behind. Once the bogans were tempted off the buses, it seems to have been assumed that service was a quaint little concept that belonged in the days of the duopoly.

I find it ironic that a LCC has rediscovered service and it stands out like some bizarre new concept... Welcome to the Brave New World...:rolleyes:


BUT...you can do this sort of thing to a point. Southwest, as alluded to, is a happy organisation & appear to have a reliable operation. As AN started to keel over, one of the most common things you heard in the terminal was "...Ansett apologises for any inconvenience!" That became almost a mantra & was, frankly, overused. (Interestingly, on Melbournes trains I hear "...Connex apologises for any inconvenience" every day as well, and you can just see people thinking..."Yes, of course you do...") It's great to follow up service issues, but its better to fix the problems first.

[lowerlobe]

The bottom line with this sort of debate is that IF you believe and understand the importance of the customer in your business especially one such as an airline then you will believe in the efforts Soutwest did....BUT..If you don't then you will look the other way....

As someone once said about the banks 'If you want the bank to pay attention to you then cease being a customer and close your accounts and use the money to buy shares"

Instead of trying to look pretty with cakes of makeup on, how about interacting more with the paying public?

an extra smile here and there, asking how their day went would go along way instead of the normal
Skystar320.....no luck with the old pick up lines again????

Do you have any idea of how little time you have on a flight to engage in chit chat?
Or do you expect a bunch of hosties to come and sit with you and ask you how your day was?

[Skystar320]

lowerlobey, sorry I dont use my pick up lines on 50yr olds dolled up with layers of make-up on...... They simply dont push my buttons

Your meaning to say on a 8hr flight, your busy for every single second? I recently flew an International carrier while instead of the normal

"Meat or Fish"

He was interacting with everyone he served; humour / jokes, compliments’ where they were due and this continued all the way down the cabin. Although very little energy is involved it made everyone smile or laugh

Your saying, it’s too hard to do this????????

[Ken Borough]

Do you have any idea of how little time you have on a flight to engage in chit chat?

Yair, he's right! Too busy in the crew rest and chatting to colleagues in the galleys to interact with the folk who pays their way. It's a bit different in the premium cabins but for the bulk of the punters, there is a near total lack of engagement with Qantas cabin crew who 'work' the 'main cabin'.

[lowerlobe]

Sorry Skystar & Kenny but this is not an anti Cabin Crew thread but instead about how an airline dealt with a delay which is normally a negative experience turning it around and showed the customer how much they appreciate their business....

By the way don't feel too bad Skystar about a knock back even from a 50 year old ....apparently you don't push their buttons either.

[Skystar320]

By the way don't feel too bad Skystar about a knock back even from a 50 year old ....apparently you don't push their buttons either.

thank gawd for that!!!!!!!!!!!! :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Taildragger67]

Tempo,

Get real....

OK, let's:

Do British Airways/Singapore/United/Air New Zealand/Cathay/Emirates etc etc send every single passenger a letter when their flight is delayed or cancelled??

No, which maybe is part of the reason many 'full-service' carriers which were flying just ten years ago, no longer are.

I think not. And do YOU expect a letter from these airlines if it happens to you? I know that I have never expected a letter when it has happened to me.

Neither have I. If I did, the sending airline might receive more of my business, because it shows they give a damn about getting my repeat business and understand that word-of-mouth is pretty much the best advertising they can get.

I realise every passenger thinks THEY are the single most important customer the airline has.

That's because they constantly tell me that that is exactly what I am, via their advertising.

However, these passengers that think that need to build a bridge and get over it.

No, the carriers do; all service companies need to 'build bridges' to their customers. Failure to do so, in a low-margin, high-competition space is a short-cut to failure. It costs more to win new business, than to keep recurrent business. That is why FFPs exist.

Aircraft break down, weather delays cause problems and not everything runs to schedule all the time.

Indeed. And all we want, is a bit of communication to tell us what is going on. Even though it might actually mean nothing to them, people just like to know what is going on. You could tell them anything (eg. 'the A thronomister seized up just as the gonkulator transitioned to flight mode'), just as long as they think that you haven't forgotten about them.

[lowerlobe]

I know that I have never expected a letter when it has happened to me. I realise every passenger thinks THEY are the single most important customer the airline has
..So Tempo are you saying that you are not a passenger or that you are different from everyone else...

The bottom line is that most carriers are not just carrying freight and through their advertising are telling the customer that they are recognised as a pivotal part of the airlines business....until something goes wrong and then they are just incidental to the problem.

I have always wondered why the airline insists on you giving them your phone number but then how many times have you arrived at the airport to find the flight delayed yet the no one at the airline has called you to let you know....

By the way Skystar..Just to show how fictitious your story is...No Cabin Crew would say "Meat or Fish".....and in what part of the aircraft were you and what listening/optical device did you have that you could hear and see what the FA did throughout the entire Y/C cabin..????

[Skystar320]

EDIT: - Deleted due uncovering the real truth about board members

[packrat]

On stock Exchanges around the world airlines are listed as transport .
The main reason you have Cabin Crew on an aircraft is for the purposes of safety.
The level of service that is provided is determined by staffing levels and resources.
When there were 8 CC in the main cabin of a(Qantas) jumbo there was time for a chat.
On Aircraft that have Premium Economy there are now only 5 CC in the main cabin.
Pax in the first 10 rows of Y/C become a liitle annoyed if their meal trays are left in front of them too long .
So the choice is.... have a chat and be jolly and be abused because the service took too long or have complaints that the crew are disengaged
A meal service is about time management ...particularly if a flight is a nightime departure.Women with small children want the lights out.Pax who have had a busy want the lights out.
Night sectors are boring.Its fun to have someone to talk to.
Being a crew member you quickly come to the realisation that it is impossible to please everyone.
So you attemt to please the majority and attempt to appease the minority who are under the impression that they are the only ones on board.

[lowerlobe]

EDIT: - Deleted due uncovering the real truth about board members
....Skystar has finally got the message and realises that this thread is about decisions made by the board & it's members.:E

Skystar is right and that the corporate decisions have a huge impact on a business,it's product(s) and the delivery of those products....all those hours riding around Perth on your police push bike are not wasted..

[Ka.Boom]

1.Perfect Safety Record.
2.100% on time departure
3.30cms between your knees and the seat infront.
4.Outstanding cuisine and wine list
5.Clean and modern aircraft.
6.Accommodates every customers seat request.
7.A Crew/Passsenger ratio of 1:20.
8.A toilet:pax ratio of 1:25
9.A 100% effective inflight entertainment system
10.10% of seats allocated for obese passengers
11.Fly anywhere in the world for less than $A1000.
.......tell 'em they're dreamin'

[Bad Hat Harry]

Passengers choose their carrier based on price, schedule, safety and not particulalrly in that order.
The cabin service or cabin crew slot in around number 8 0r 9 of factors that influence the decision in choosing a carrier.
As has been said... its transport.
Management determine how good or bad that transport is.
They do this by determining how much training staff are given,the number of staff they employ and the resources they are provided with to do their job.
All this requires a minimum spend.
Spend below the minimum and everything begins to suffer.
Qantas in particular has gone way below the minimum spend.
Qantas does not value its employees and does not value its customers.
Dixon has been quoted as saying that the flying public is overserviced.
Value your customers..value your staff...spend the correct amount on resources and the rest will follow.
It ain't rocket science.
Airlines are businesses..they need to make a profit and return a dividend to shareholders.
How much profit is enough?
Covering the cost of capital?Depends on what that cost is.
Warren Buffet is fairly precise about what is a good business?
Airlines are not a good business.
They are capital intensive and have a volatile business cycle.
In short ..dont expect a decent return on your capital from airline stock.
Invest in bluechip and for the longterm

[Skystar320]

LOWERlobe, sorry I received a PM about you and thought it would be interested to all to know.....

Then I thought, nah, I wont shame you

*case closed*

[Buster Hyman]

If it was about the cross dressing, I sent you that one...

[lowerlobe]

Buster....That was a great party you had that night....But I wasn't cross...

Sorry I shouldn't encourage Buster ..

Skystar this thread is about management and their decisions....

[packrat]

Now that the Boys Club is being dismantled there is a glimmer of hope that the dynamic duo(Joyce and Clifford)will address the mess that Dixon is leaving behind.
A decent advertsing campaign,improved maintenance and customer and staff re engagement.
It will take a while...we need to be patient.
The best thing about all this?
We are still here and old scrotum face is gone and taken his big fat mate with him.

[maxter]

Once the bogans were tempted off the buses

Buster I respect many of your opinions (and your right to have those I disagree with) but that comment I think reflects the dinosour thinking of the 'Tempo's' of many in the industry you are in.

Of course there were all levels of people that could finally afford airfares but as one who was an occasional bus user I regard myself as very far from a 'Bogan', as you would describe me, and that applies to many people now flying that I know.

Back in the dim days (80's & 90's), you seem to remember fondly, it would cost my in-laws over $4000 return to travel Sydney - Biloela. The nicest, most giving people you would ever meet but $4000 was/is a lot of coin even in this day of monopoly money. They along with 99% of those that are attracted to the new airlines by competition and cheap fares are very far from 'Bogans' as you would so disparagingly call them.

Maybe it is you that should 'build a bridge' (Tempos wording). Airlines are no longer the hobby of just the rich to fly on. They are just a means of getting from A to B to the majority of the traveling public. They are as much a tool of my business as my employees or the truck that delivers goods. Nothing more and nothing less.

It is not only the 'Bogans' that have benefited from cheaper airfares, business has been revolutionised as well. 3 of the 4 businesses that I own, or have an interest in, are now in 3 other states including Perth and all I need to do is take a cheap & quick 'taxi ride' to oversee them. It staggers me the complaints from people on here who cannot go from Brisbane to Sydney without a meal. I would hate to have to do a trip with you in a car. You would never get past outskirts of a city before the 1st stop.

This does not detract from the skill that those who operate these planes show or the responsibility for the large numbers of lives they have. You are right to be proud of your chosen profession. The large majority of you in Australia do your job extremely well and are a credit.

Management may need to look at the 'you need a happy team to have a good business' model that Southwest appear to encourage. I can see the results of this in my businesses every day. Those that are performing well have the most contented staff. Just do not confuse contented with pampered, results are still needed.

As for the topic I could not agree more that airlines are a service industry and those that recognise that good service (different from 'full service'), and do deliver that, will be rewarded whether you are an airline, coffee shop, retail outlet or whatever. The Southwest voucher is a great initiative when they are the cause of the delay. I would not expect they would do that for issues beyond their control ie weather, but I bet they would do all in there power to reasonably assist.

[argusmoon]

...are in the transport business....not service...not hospitality....transport!!!
Get it?

[Buster Hyman]

Ok, fair enough Max, but I meant the "Bogans that travel by bus" & not that anyone travelling by bus is a Bogan.

What I was trying to say, perhaps ham fistedly, was that along with the "pampered" service, I feel that some carriers decided to cater to the lowest common denominator because they could.

QF was a full service airline. If you got a box lunch like now, back then, you'd have called them a LCC.

I don't see where in my post that I'm longing for the old days when only the rich could fly...perhaps you could elaborate? All I was doing was lamenting the fact that Southwest provides some service & it's like the second coming. It never should have gone in the first place.

[teresa green]

Skystar 320, I think it is reasonable not to lump all cabin crew in the one basket, there are many who do their job well. A member of my family is JQ cabin crew, and she has had some pretty dreadful customers, including out of OOL last week, when some Tosser on the way to SYD asked if shag$ing her was included in the ticket price, (and at the top of his voice) she has learnt to deal with this sort of thing, but still finds it distressing. Whilst Tech crew never have to put up with this sort of behaviour, (nobody ever asked me!) it is very common for the girls to have to listen to this sort of crap, and should be taken into consideration. Yes you can report these ratbags but the amount of paper work and then having to reconfront the tosser at the end of the flight is just not worth it. I think we all forget,that the girls get verbally abused or put down on more than one occasion, during their working week, especially coming out of the Gold Coast when the pax have had a few before boarding, and the same out of DPS. And it is getting worse.:(

[Skystar320]

Don’t get me wrong, though I apologise for it coming across that I am lumping them all in one basket all cabin crew are not the same…. Though the national airline in recent years has gone steeply downhill in terms of customer focused especially while onboard – though not every one of them are like that…..

Just my observations.

[teresa green]

True Skystar, but I think management is to blame, as it once was a career if the C/C wished it so, now they are on a contract, can be put off at any time, so probably approach the job in a different frame of mind. Still a lot of great C/C out there, but of course like everything else, not the same.

[speedbirdhouse]

Ah, insightful post from you Teresa Green.

Welcome to the future.

I'm a career flight attendant with quality terms and conditions that have afforded me what was once "a given", for the Australian workforce.

A house, a car and a holiday once a year.

I have a long term stake in the continued success of the company I work for as my own financial welfare [and that of my family] is inextricably linked.

My performance at work is predicated by this arrangement and after many years in the job I can confidently say that I am a more effective employee than I was 15, 10 or even 5 years ago.

However.........

The terms and conditions that are central to this mutually benefitial arrangement are drawing to an end.

New hires cannot hope to carve a career out of the job as I have done as the terms and conditions simply do not allow it.

Don't get me wrong. In many ways it's still a great job, but sadly now, that is all it is.

A job.

Not a career and naturally the level of commitment shown by the new hires is going to reflect this.

Why would you make an effort to learn about the industry, engage with the business OR TAKE PERSONALLY the comfort, welfare and satisfaction of your passengers if you are paid a pittance and as such, are only going to be here for a couple of years??

You wouldn't.

Despite the fact that I have to work along side these people when I think about it, I can't blame them.

Those who have flown on the US carriers will understand the picture I'm trying to paint.

South West being the obvious exception. It actively promotes and encourages long term employment, pays above industry standard and it's service levels and PROFITABILITY reflect this.

It's not all negative though as Qantas's profitability and the return it provides to it's shareholders will rise.

In the short term..............

___________________

Then you've got the whole other issue that is, "generation why" :}

[lowerlobe]

Though the national airline in recent years has gone steeply downhill in terms of customer focused especially while onboard – though not every one of them are like that…..
Just my observations.
Skystar ....I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "case closed" or what someone could have sent you about me when we are anonymous on pprune but tell us how many flights you have had with QF in recent years to give us an idea of your observations?

[BAe32EP-Chief]

I have recently flew with Qantas many times over the months and have found that the Q's attitude has changed, dont know if thats attributed to the managers?

Mind you there are some really nice cc out their still

[Ka.Boom]

Qantas Cabin Crew are best characterized as the sum of their parts.
You have....
1. Sydney based Longhaul who are full time and who work for Qantas Airways Ltd(QAL)
2.You have Qantas Longhaul Cabin Crew Australia(QCCA)
3.The LHR base who work for a hire company
4.The BKK Base who work for a hire company
5.The AKL Base who work for a hire company
6.The domestics...mostly ex TAA and Australian
7.Qantaslink
8.Jet*
All on different wages and conditions and all with a varying degree of loyalty to the mother ship
These different groups provide a varying standard of service according to their wages,conditions and the Length of time they see themselves staying.
You also have a variety of National cultures.....English,Eastern European,Thai and Kiwi and Australian.
There is a certain degree of animosity among the bases...particulalry the LHR,AKL and Australian based Longhaul.
All this adds up to inconsistency in service and attitude.
On any given day and any given sector the service can range from outstanding to ordinary to appalling.
Until the bickering stops and everyone is on the same T and Cs this will continue.
Homogeneity of culture and service went out the window when Dixon took over

[lowerlobe]

As has been said many times before..... the last thing Darth would want is a unified workforce in any department.

As Ka.Boom pointed out Cabin Crew have not only been deliberately sourced from different nationalities and cultures but on vastly different pay and conditions as well.

It is almost impossible to have 2 different groups doing the same job at times on the same aircraft and not have different attitudes to say the least.Add to that a loss of work to another base where in fact the company plays one group against the other during industrial negotiations and you have a recipe for conflicting service standards and animosity.

These tactics are not only used on cabin Crew though and seems to be a favourite MO with the company.

It is impossible to please all passengers all of the time but I find it difficult to understand someone complaining about dropping standards on our flights when they can't even remember what they do for a living themselves.

[puff]

Look at an airline like SQ that has the highest of standards in FAs - and thus some of the highests levels of customer satisfaction.
1. ALL of them are SIN based - Asian and basically most are either from Singapore or Malaysia.
2. ALL of them are employed on exactly the same employment terms.

Talking to them on a few flights to Europe and I explained the circumstances at QF and they way they employed FAs they simply couldn't believe it. Think of the costs to an airline like SQ in overnighting crew in London with 3 A380 services a DAY (some days), but they still do not have crew based there. And further to rumours thrown around SQ FAs do not share hotel rooms.

Some of them deep down might not love their job, or the company, but it NEVER shows in their attitude to the public, the airline is doing very well and it's because they invest heavily in new aircraft, and their service is second to none mainly due to the fact of the reputation around the world of excellent service from the 'SQ girls'(and boys).

[speedbirdhouse]

Singapore Airlines hiring FAs out of the UK.

I'm RAOTFPML just thinking about the concept:D

[Rolling around on the floor pissing myself laughing]

[lowerlobe]

Actually,these last few posts have made me think and I wonder if a 'QCCA' crew member took this to the discrimination board would the case hold water?

These days you can't look at someone or make even the most innocuous of statements without a claim being made against you.

If someone were to point out to the discrimination board that they are doing exactly the same job on the same aircraft at the same time that other crew are and for a lot less in terms of remuneration and conditions would they have a case that the company has to answer to?

The company might be able to argue about crew based in other countries on different pay and conditions because of different living standards & costs but how two different crew on different conditions based in the same city doing exactly the same job?

The company might get away with it IF both crews operated on different aircraft and types of service but what about operating at the same time on the same aircraft doing the same job?

[teresa green]

At SQ the girls are put off at 35 yrs old. Regardless. No augument. They are considered to "old". If you are a male C/C member and gay it is never to be acknowledged. No augument. Singapore is not and never has been a democracy, it has been run by one family for the last 60 years. As long as you do as you are told, you do not have a problem, if you buck the system you are in trouble, big trouble. Singapore has paraded on the world stage as a good and fair country, it is anything but. It has quite a brutal regime, always politely accepted by Great Britain and the USA for whatever political reason, ask any pilot who has flown for SQ, they will tell you about the "big stick". Believe me it exists.

[sthaussiepilot]

Had a negative run in with Qantas Terminal Staff for the first time ever recently,

We had a passenger on a charter with us, he checked in with us half an hour to early, so he went over to the main terminal to wait around and have a drink or two, he said he would be in an airline lounge, I went to VB first (he didnt look like the richest man in the world) and the staff let me go straight in to have a look around, didnt need to show my ASIC, work ID's (although I was in uniform) nor did I have to show my VB Velocity card (left my wallet in the office)...

He wasnt there...

Went to Qantas lounge, didnt have my FF card on me, showed my ASIC, showed work ID, etc, and offered to have a staff member escort me to have a quick look for him... and they wouldnt let me.... the lady behind the counter wouldnt even give me the time of day... I even asked her to look up my FF account, and she said "I'm sorry I cant do that"...

Err ok...

but other than that usually all are very friendly and chipper:ok:

(We had to refuse the passenger on the aircraft, so I went to inform him)

[TWT]

Singapore brutal ? If you dabble with drugs yes,otherwise no.( I lived there for a few years BTW).

[lowerlobe]

Singapore brutal ? If you dabble with drugs yes,otherwise no.
Unless of course you are a member of the opposition and speak out about the Government in any way.....
or in a seat and vote for the opposition...
or a misguided youth who is stupid enough to deliberately scratch a car ( not that I agree with what the moron did but giving him lashes is a bit over the top for the crime).....
or tried to catch a train on the MRT while eating an apple....
or have a packet of chewing gum in your bag when entering Singapore...

I have even seen another crew member who had bought a Video tape of the Sound of Music for his wife and it was confiscated at Singapore airport because it had not been cleared by the Singapore censors...I wonder what the officials would have done if they had found a real porno tape....

Brutal does not neccessarily mean being violent (although the said teenager probably thinks so),it can also be in the context of a brutal suppression of peoples rights if the government wants it to be so..........

[TWT]

You have to abide by the laws of the land wherever you go.If you can't be bothered to find out what they are before travelling then don't complain when you are pulled up for breaking said laws.Or just don't go there.

Singapore is a democracy.They have transparent elections.Just happens that the majority vote the incumbents back in year after year.Why is that ?

It's not everyone's cup of tea but,believe it or not,there are perfectly good reasons for (most) of their laws.For example,after the race riots in the early days,something had to be done about laws relating to public order.

But this forum is not the place for a history lesson....

[lowerlobe]

TWT.....I never said that you don't abide by the rules of another country but I was expressing a widely held view about Singapore and it's laws.
Originally posted by TWT...Give me one example of an opposition party person who has been hobbled by the incumbent party.
How about I give you Four...
Prominent human rights defender and opposition leader Dr Chee Soon Juan
Dr Chee's sister, Chee Siok Chin, who is a prominent member of the small opposition Singapore Democratic Party, was also made bankrupt by a court -- thus barring her from contesting a parliamentary seat
Tang Liang Hong
Workers Party leader J.B. Jeyaretnam
I have been travelling to Singapore since the the early 70's and I like it there.All I am saying is that it has a political system that does not handle opposite views very well....

[TWT]

Fair enough.You make some good points.And you replied before I edited my post to tone it down a bit.I guess I bit because I 'assumed' that you were guided by generalised impressions of the country rather than first hand knowledge.

Never assume.

Anyway we're off topic....