Do Helicopters date back further than most of us believe?

[flyer43]

I have a short article on Helicopter History on my personal website and occasionally receive inquiries or comments on it from people who read it.
Today I received a comment, apparently from somebody in China, which refutes what most of us believe to be the original roots of the helicopter. Here is the message as written, including a diagram of what is purported to be the first helicopter car. If any of you have any comments on the message I would be very interested - then again.......?

Dear Sir,

I have just read your essay "Helicopter History". In the pharagraph "The Early Years" you have misled us that the helicopter was designed by Da Vinci in 1486. And you also mentioned that a Chinese named Ko Hung (320 AD) had disclosed a toy called bamboo dragonfly.

Far earlier than 1,500 BC, a country called Chigon (奇肱) invented human powered helicopter (called flying car) and one day one of said flying cars was blown by a strong west wind to the capital of Shang (商) dynasty. The voyage was 1,000 kilometers. Officers of Soun then arrested the pilot and destroyed the car. This event were recorded in many Chinese ancient books, such as: 帝王世紀; 山海經; 博物志; 太平廣記; etc., etc. Around 100 BC, said Chigon country was unified into China. It is now a part of 四川, 雲南 and 貴州 provinces. So, simply speaking, ancient Chinese invented and used human powered helicopter.

What Ko Hung recorded in his book was the main construction of said HPH. People always pay attention to the Flying Top which we called it bamboo dragonfly, but in his book, flying top was well known already, the important disclosure was he taught how to combine it with an e-ring jerker (環劍) (it has a function just like a freewheel of a bike) and how to energize it. He taught us to build a real helicopter, not a toy.

You may ask me why an event of 1,500 BC not recorded in that day and must be recorded 1,500 years later? Yes, in that days, Chinese words were very few, but 400 charaters in total, and all inscriptions were chiseled on animal bones and tortoise shells. And all bones and shells were thrown away when they were used. Then comes the so called Fighting Countries. In so called Fighting Countries period, dozens of countries were established in Chinese territory. Each had their own language and word. In that time, all words are chiseled on bamboo sheets to form a book. Then the king of Chin (秦) unified said countries and burnt all books not chiseled by Chin for unifying languages and words. So, until Han (漢) dynasty, people began to gether oral stories and recorded on bamboo sheets once again. But alas, there comes so called Three Countries, that is to say, there were three kings in one China and they fought each other for almost hrndred years. So until Jin (晉), Ko Hung can finally recorded stories 1,500 years ago.

Attached please find appearance of Chigon flying car for your reference. If you have any question, please feel free to write me.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/Flyer43/gyroplane.jpg

[onetrack]

Hmmm .. a 3500 year old chopper .. powered by an "e-ring jerker" .. a 1000 km flight .. under personal power .. and he still even has the plans?? .. :rolleyes:

This story lends itself to .. errr .. umm .. some kind of wordplay, involving "jerker" or "jerking" .. along with a VERY healthy dose of scepticism .. :cool:

I'd hazard a guess .. that next, a copy of a full set of blueprints of the chopper .. along with aeronautical charts of the region, dating from the same period .. will be available for a "modest fee" .. ?? :rolleyes:

[rogerk]

Did his ever fly or was it a piece of design in a book ??

Still love the quote !

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return"

- Leonardo da Vinci

[flyer43]

As far as I know, Da Vinci's helicopter design was simply that - thinking ahead of his time.

A quote from Wikipedia reference man-powered helicopter flight - the Da Vinci III was nothing like its namesake: -

"The first officially observed human-powered helicopter to have left the ground was the Da Vinci III in 1989. It was designed and built by students at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo in California, USA. It flew for 7.1 seconds and reached a height of 8 inches (20 cm). The second was the Yuri I in 1994, designed and built by students at Nihon University in Japan. It flew for 19.46 seconds and reached an altitude of 20 cm. Both were attempts to win the Sikorsky Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_Prize)."
Link to article on Da Vinci III (http://www.humanpoweredhelicopters.org/davinci/index.htm)- or was that the Da Vinci II ??

[Overdrive]

Sycamore seeds were the earliest helicopter :}

[Sailor Vee]

But they only autorotate! :uhoh:

[Dave Gibbings]

The mysterious Mr. W H Phillips.
:

As early as 1842, W H Phillips is reported to have flown a 2lb (1kg) model helicopter driven by steam effluxes from the blade tips with limited success.
Power was achieved by burning a mixture of charcoal, gypsum and nitre (which, in the appropriate proportions would be gunpowder!).
The inventor described the event as follows:

“All being arranged, the steam was up in a few seconds, when the whole apparatus spun around like any top, and mounted into the air faster than a bird; to what height it ascended I had no means of ascertaining; The distance travelled was across two fields, where, after a long search, I found the machine minus its wings, which had been torn off in contact with the ground.”

Reports of this flight vary as regards size and distance flown, but if authenticated would be the first recorded powered flight, some six years before Stringfellow (1848), it would also be the first recorded use of tip-jet drive, and the first successful steam driven helicopter model.

It is believed that a replica of the model was placed on show at the exhibition held by the Royal Aeronautical Society in 1868.

Bearing in mind that, this year, we are about to celebrate, albeit questionably, the first flight of a rudimentary helicopter, maybe we should look into the claim. A flight across two fields suggests a flight of at least 200yds, considerably more than Stringfellow’s 30ft.

None of the reports state where this was done, or indicates whether Mr Phillips had any other connection with aeronautics, other than to say that his model was put on show by the Society. This in itself suggests that he must have been known to the Society, and yet amazingly, there appears to be no reference to him in our files, and any catalogue note or picture of his model.

[Canuck Guy]

I don't know how much faith I'd put in Chinese history books, or this story. They take propaganda to a whole new level.

Nice try with the drawings though. But what is Figure 2.... a funky nipple-pinching device?

[flyer43]

In response to the first message I received, I sent the following reply to which I received a response - see the message following my note:

From me:
Many thanks for your message relating to the possibility that the helicopter (really a gyroplane in this case) was invented many hundreds of years before most historians believe.
Although your story is very interesting, I won't be adding it to my website unless I am able to substantiate the information through any other sources. All of the information on my website has proven information to support it. If you are able to put me in touch with any recognised authority that would be able to provide authentication for your information I would be very interested. However, for the moment I find it very difficult to believe that people who could only record information by inscribing it on to animal bones and tortoise shells would be capable of building such a device. It would also be difficult for anybody to believe that a manpowered flying machine could travel such a distance. Even now, when composite lightweight materials are available for building flying machines, and computer technology is there to help prove the designs etc, manpowered machines are only capable of traveling much shorter distances.

The current distance and duration record recognised by the FAI was achieved on 23 April 1988 from Iraklion on Crete to Santorini in a MIT Daedalus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Daedalus) 88 (a fixed-wing aircraft) piloted by Kanellos Kanellopoulos: a straight distance of 115.11 km (74 miles) in 3 hours, 54 minutes.

For manpowered helicopters the following information is available:
The first officially observed human-powered helicopter to have left the ground was the Da Vinci III in 1989. It was designed and built by students at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo in California, USA. It flew for 7.1 seconds and reached a height of 8 inches (20 cm). The second was the Yuri I in 1994, designed and built by students at Nihon University in Japan. It flew for 19.46 seconds and reached an altitude of 20 cm. Both were attempts to win the Sikorsky Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_Prize).

Once again, many thanks for your interesting message. I hope to hear more from you regarding the source of the information.

Regards

From the originator of the original claim:
Dear Sir,

It is not necessary to amend your web page at once. Of course, you should study the information carefully, but I believe, finally you will do as Mr. Menzies has done (regarding who first found America). Mr. Menzies is a first class mariner, he finally announces that Zheng He was the first one who found America.

Yes, at beginning, I thought as you now think that the flying car is a gliding gyroplane. Gyro-glider is the only glider which can take off itself in strong wind. But if the wind is 70 km/h, the glider will take off easily since nowadays, a gyroplane can take off with a speed of 43 km/h. Once the flying car is in the air, the car will be accelerated in the air by the wind. When its speed relating to the ground rising, its airspeed will be reduced. Once the airspeed reduced to 50 km/h (since the flying car has less efficiency than modern gyroplane), it will be gliding down. When it touchs ground, since the speed relating to the ground is now reduced, its airspeed will rise at once, thus will cause the car to rise again. Therefore, it will have an average speed of 20 km/h. Since a man must eat and sleep, the Chigonese can only cover 250 km per day. Thus, 4 days will be spent for a voyage of 1,000 km. Is there a so strong wind can keep 4 days? Besides, Ko Hung taught us to build a human powered helicopter, therefore, the car must be equipped with "e-ring jerker". Thus, no matter how many seconds can it stay in the air, human power certainly can prolong the time to stay in the air. Thus, the average speed of the Chigonese will be raised to 30 or 40 km/h. Therefore, the wind lingered 2 or 3 days will be enough. Thus, the whole event will be possible. Wind was the main force to perform the flight, not human power, human power only acted for manoeuvre.

In Chigon territory, there are many kinds of bamboo, now the giant panda still eats bamboo. Therefore, people lived in Chigon has excellent skill to handling bamboo articles. The car was made of bamboo. No writing skill is in need. Since in that time, educated persons were never carrying out craftsmanship. Ko Hung recorded something about it, while his description was very vague. Don't tell me that US and Japan teams fail to do human powered helicopter, their devices are too complicate and heavy, why not to try Chigon's car? Sikorsky's requirement is not too criticle.

[Freewheel]

If this were a feasible claim, the bulk of personal transport in china would be on bamboo nipple cripplers. After all they've kept the recipe for fireworks all this time...


Since that is clearly not the case, and it took the bicycle to bring rapid personal transportation to the bulk of china, I think we can put this one in the category of the great wall, built by Emporer Nazi Goring, to keep the rabbits out.


I used to think that American authors were the world's greatest rewriters of history, but the chinese (and those who have fallen into their spell) have well and truly trumped them in recent years. I suppose it helps when vast texts & knowledge were deliberately destroyed a generation or so ago....

[Canuck Guy]

Of course, you should study the information carefully, but I believe, finally you will do as Mr. Menzies has done (regarding who first found America).

So.... if you look deeper into his info you'll discover America too?


Once the flying car is in the air, the car will be accelerated in the air by the wind.
Interesting theory of flight. So not only did the Chinese invent a helicopter, they invented an aircraft that is able to fly more efficiently when travelling downwind?


When it touchs ground, since the speed relating to the ground is now reduced, its airspeed will rise at once, thus will cause the car to rise again.

Even if this were true and possible, it's about as close to controlled flight as a ball bouncing down a hallway.

I bet this guy could come up with a few paragraphes telling us how and why the Tiananmen Square protests never happened too.:rolleyes:

[500 Fan]

While none of us can absolutley 100% refute the claims that the Chinese had a helicopter that far back it seems that they are trying to rewrite the entire history of the world from the year dot. They currently claim that all the advances made by the Greeks and Romans during various periods in world history were simply ideas taken from the Chinese and they are teaching this in their schools. := If China is such a world-leader in helicopter design, why is it that the majority of their helicopter production has been based on other people's designs (Mi-4,Mi-8, SA365 Dauphin and AS350 Squirrel)? Cannuck is right. It's just propaganda.

500 Fan.

[onetrack]

I could've guessed this guy was a great supporter of the 1421 Menzies scam .. but now he's trying to outdo Menzies, with fantasies about 3,500 year old, purely-wind-powered, choppers .. :rolleyes: ..

What next? .. Chinese astronauts made it to the moon in 1000 BC, as well?? .. AND he has photographic proof, to go with the claim?? .. :rolleyes:

The greatest scam of all - "1421: The Year China Discovered America" (http://www.textbookleague.org/124menzi.htm)

[MartinCh]

A:
If the California and Japan HPH were so successful (20cm hover cruise over mountains, anyone??) in our times with our materials, technology and aerodynamics knowledge, I'm sure that ancient Chinese aviator was damn good had carving bamboo with pocket knife and all the linkages, gearbox, etc from some basic materials (not sure how good their metal working was that time). Those amateurish students were obviously not Chinese.. :}

B:
I presume he didn't need TR in his single MR design to overcome the engine torque since there isn't any engine, right? :ugh:
Is that Fig 2 view from above, ie some sort of knock-off Chinese Focke Achgelis 223 (Nazi made 'tilt-rotor without tilting', not very known)? That'll explain no need for TR..

Interesting rotary Jet Blast topic anyway.

[vorticey]

for it to work as the storie goes, you would have to cling onto something every time you landed to get the RRPM high enough otherwise it would just take enough weight to drag you along. or you could have a pitch control and use the rotor inertia. prety much the same as a glider, if you point it into a 50knot wind it could lift off and fly backwards till the airspeed fell away, you would need to land before it got below the stall speed of coures.

[Runway101]

It's probably not even that guy's fault that he believes what he believes. He is very likely a member of the communist party just like all other Chinese people that work at banks, government companies or other institution-like organizations (no career without being member).

He's been taught that kind of Chinese propaganda since he was able to understand human language. And from my own experience, unfortunately, I can sadly confirm that Chinese are very easy to fall for that kind of stuff.

Luckily, nowadays, lots of young Chinese are not that naive anymore to just follow their dear leader. Things are definitely changing, but it will be a (long) while until the government catches up I guess.

*political rant over*

[flyer43]

To further support his claim, I've just received this link to a Chinese version of You Tube:

Man Powered Autogyro (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDA1MzAwNDA=.html)

I'm just waiting for the video clip from 1500 BC now!

[Runway101]

Translation of second comment in that video:

This is not person's physical strength causes the human to takeoff, is the truck result.

You can actually see the line on take off...

[Desert Dingo]

....and the vehicle doing the towing at 00:38 seconds into the clip

[ums]

I knew you guys would love this:

There are some hieroglyphs that seemingly depict helicopters dated to 3000BC on the Temple of Seti I at Abydos.
http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/16449_egypt.html
http://www.eridu.co.uk/Author/Indexed_Quotations/Helicopter/helicopter.html

It is quite possible that the temple is a copy of a much older temple dating to 4000 BC.

[flyer43]

I wondered how long you eagle eyed observers would take to spot the tow line and truck - although Runway 101 has a distinct advantage over me in being able to translate the comments.
During the landing you can see the short cable end used to attach the towing line to the bar for launching.
I wonder what they used instead of a truck in 1500 BC?

[Runway101]

Maybe the Chinese also invented the bamboo catapult at about the same time.

[Windy Pants]

I thought that the reason this amazing Chinese invention went undocumented, was because of the Chinese shortage in 3500BC of toner cartridges for their laser printers.