Classical widebody first class

[chornedsnorkack]

People are praising classical flying. What is there to praise?

See
http://www.tristar500.net/features/TriStar500.pdf

Tristar 500 standard arrangement is first class seating at 6 abreast and 42 inches pitch.

42 inches pitch is not first class, nor business class. It is premium economy (although 6 abreast is good for premium economy). Looking at other classical planes like 747SP, DC-10, 747-200 et cetera, the picture is the same: 6 abreast 2-2-2 seating, and 42 inches pitch or less.

I cannot see a technical reason why a 747SP should not have been fitted out with 100 flat beds, like Singapore A340-500. But what was the reason that it was not done? There must have been some sort of reason...

[WHBM]

I'm just wondering why there's a girl standing in the cargo door in her underwear !

[S'land]

She's just found a way to make passengers pay attention to the safety instructions - do the spiel a) in her undies and b) before the passengers board.

[B747-800]

Maybe she wants to go skydiving?........Ops, forgot the chute!

[Krakatoa]

The reason why the B747SP never had flat beds was nobody had invented them.

[WHBM]

The reason why the B747SP never had flat beds was nobody had invented them.
Really ? What about those beds that used to be stowed against the ceiling on Super Connies and Stratocruisers of the 1950s ?

[evansb]

American Airlines DC-3 'Skysleeper' had Pullman-style berths in the late 1930s.

[Krakatoa]

"....flat beds, like Singapore A340-500....." I do not think he meant bunks that fold down from the wall.

[411A]

Tristar 500 standard arrangement is first class seating at 6 abreast and 42 inches pitch.


Hmmm, well there was a 'standard arrangement' and then there was....

SaudiArabian's standard FC arrangement...chairs that would lie almost flat, swivil 360 degrees, and had a table in the middle of each pair...quite nice, actually.:ok:

[evansb]

BOAC Boeing 747 first class, lunch service, circa 1970. Sleeping was in recline-mode only, and even then, many seats did not have foot rests. Note the pax would have to stand up to adjust the air vent. Centre row pax on many wide-bodies, both first and coach class, like the L1011, did not have any access to air vents.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/BOAC747firstclass.jpg

[old,not bold]

SaudiArabian's standard FC arrangement...chairs that would lie almost flat, swivil 360 degrees, and had a table in the middle of each pair...quite nice, actually

Wasn't that an attempt, doomed to failure by the lack of booze, to catch up with GF's 1st Class cabin, when the L-1011s (ex-PSA and very improved) were introduced by GF?

GF had the "butterfly" fold-out tables first, I believe, around which the seats could be swivelled to make each set of 4 into a dining table arrangement; then there was the cocktail bar area, with seating for 40, into which passengers were invited for pre-lunch cocktails (STD LHR 0900) while the dining tables were organised, chairs swivelled, tables laid with cotton and silver, etc etc. Back into the cabin for lunch, back to the bar area for coffee while the cabin was turned into a cinema for the after-lunch film. And if the film was over-running a bit, why, all the cabin staff had to do was ask the Flight Deck to slow down a bit, fly in circles, whatever. Passenger comfort and convenience came before schedules.

All this had to go, of course, when the losses became unsupportable even for Gulf Air. But it was fun while it lasted.

Part of the problem was that the people who got to enjoy it were mostly senior staff, including Captains, of GF, BA and others, with their families. I can tell you that flying on Ryanair today is the best example of sublime to gorblimey that I know.

The GF Tristars were not known at LHR as the Flying Brothels for nothing.

[John Farley]

Krakatoa

If you do a little checking you will find beds have been available with many airlines from the 1930s onwards at a premium price. As to the 747 (sorry I can't remember if it was a -100 or a -200) I flew JAL Tokio to LHR back in 1979 when the upper deck was only fitted with beds. Very comfortable it was too - when stretched out straight I got nowhere near the top or bottom and I was 6' 1.5" in those days. You booked your berth on a first come first served basis at checkin.

[411A]

Centre row pax on many wide-bodies, both first and coach class, like the L1011, did not have any access to air vents.


Not so.
I seem to remember a switch on each seat, to switch on/off an air vent, aimed directly at a specified seat, on the L1011, years ago.

[barit1]

American Airlines DC-3 'Skysleeper' had Pullman-style berths in the late 1930s.

They called it the DST (Douglas Sleeper Transport) - they had little eyebrow windows above the regular side panes, so that upper-bunk pax could see out.

As to the 747 (sorry I can't remember if it was a -100 or a -200) I flew JAL Tokio to LHR

If a -100 it prolly made a pit stop at ANC.

NWA's -100s could make ORD-NRT but only at reduced payload. If you wore old clothes and boarded early you could stake a claim on a five-seat center block in the aft cabin, stretch out and enjoy some rest enroute. :ok:

In the SP they removed all the empty seats. :}

[evansb]

Cool! Pun intended.

All seriousness aside, there seems to be a wide variation of service experienced by first-class passengers through-out the golden, silver and bronze ages of air travel. My peers thought highly of L1011 travel. I, for one, thought less of them! My experience in mid-row, centre-section on an Air Canada L1011 in the sweltering summer of 1977 was less than pleasant. If the over-head vents worked, I wasn't aware of their effect..!
Otherwise, the aircraft was flawless. As was the cabin service. On time, and on arrival, my baggage was on the carousel in less than 10 minutes after deplaning. Try that today!

My carry-on was way-way too far away from my centre position.

[John Farley]

Barit1

Yep. I seem to recall an intermediate stop in Germany - prob FRA don't remember if it was an intermediate destination or a tech stop.

JF

[WHBM]

Not often realised is that the all-time classic DC3 appeared originally in 1936 as the DST, or Douglas Sleeper Transport, with double-deck bunk beds down both sides (hence the high level small windows described above). American Airlines was the pioneer customer and used them on overnight New York-California services. The need to put the beds in was the reason for the fuselage width expansion over the DC2, which had single seats down both sides. It was subsequently realised that the DST fuselage could be fitted out with 21 seats arranged 2+1, which became the classic DC3 configuration.

[jindabyne]

JF

Since when were you that tall - supposedly?

[John Farley]

When I had a 1250 issued. Rather more than half a century ago. Which just goes to show that even a modest career in the aviation business can leave its mark.

[Opssys]

In, I think the late 1970's when Philippine Airlines operated Gatwick Manila on 747 Aircraft they had their First Class Seats on the Main Deck and First Class Beds on the upper deck.

As the Aircraft night stopped at LGW it was deep cleaned. Unfortunately security for the Aircraft during the night was initially non-existent, redulting in a further cleaning and grooming of the upper deck accommodation prior to departure. I understand the beds were quite comfortable.

First Class Pitch and facilities were during the 1970s and 80s were very much down to the carrier and also in some cases the sector length. Short Haul first class was really about leg room and food/drinks service. Long Haul, well I'll just say some carriers tried harder than others to make it feel worth the ticket price.

Although I doubt many First Class passengers were as fortunate in their inflight service as the Late Kenneth Tynan was in 1958 when he flew from New York to London First Class, which he recounted in Punch in 1975 entitled 'Love at Great Height' which was subsequently republished in 'A book of Air Journeys' compiled by Ludovic Kennedy.

[WHBM]

I seem to recall those Philippine Airlines 747s had seat belts on the beds and were the first aircraft to be certificated for pax to be in them for takeoff and landing. And in case you thing Philippine regulations would be a pushover the aircraft were all registered in the USA so it was FAA certification.