Comments by newly checked S-92 Pilots

[SASless]

I had a very pleasant conversation with an old GOM pilot last night....who recently moved onto the S-92. When asked how he liked the 92 his response was telling.

"Gosh but I love the air conditioning!"

Forty years of trundling about the GOM at ambient temps and humidity must get old.

[Old Skool]

I thought i was in heaven in the C++, the aircon was ok but you were at the end of the pipe, and if everyone else opened the vents then the flow got very weak. But the 92 guys had it even better, in the height of summer the drivers had jackets on...
In the days before an aircon chariot i would just keep on climbing until i got to 21C

[212man]

Yes, it is rather good! I recall telling former colleagues still in Nigeria, that I'd started work on the checklists, in advance of delivery. The prestart checklist was going to begin...

Battery ... .ON
APU......... .ON
Air Con......ON
Close the Doors!


And, amongst the emergency checklist items, the immediate actions for 'AIRCON FAILURE' were 'Jumpers/Sweaters.........Remove!'

There are other good things about it too:

State of the art EFIS
Wonderful AFCS and Flight Director
Smooth, fast and quiet ride
Part 29 Amd 47 certification, with all the attendent redundency and failsafe critical components

The list goes on.......

[Variable Load]

212man,

You have surely missed the addition of a few hundred Smilies in your posting.

I thought you were telling the truth, well for a nanosecond ;)

The aircon is good though :)

[Mr Toad]

Great aircraft.

212man sez state of the art EFIS. What do others think of the PFD; does the use of traditional ASI, Altimeter and VSI work or should they have stayed with strips?

Any informed opinion anyone?

[212man]

Mr Toad, sorry if my sarcasm was lost..;)

The answers to your question are No and Yes.

[js0987]

On my wish list for better instruments, I wish you could call up nice, big, fat, torque - temp-Nr indicators on the inside screens. Just for takeoff, once in cruise, go back to the Nav page. Sure would make single engine stuff on takeoffs and landings easier.

[Mr Toad]

Wot no yes and no?

So who I wonder was responsible for this great leap backwards? There are vile rumours that it may have been a small group of pilots not familiar with modern cockpit theory and practice.

Hopefully a software revision could fix it.

[Horror box]

On my wish list for better instruments, I wish you could call up nice, big, fat, torque - temp-Nr indicators on the inside screens. Just for takeoff, once in cruise, go back to the Nav page. Sure would make single engine stuff on takeoffs and landings easier.

I actually think that the current PFD setup, with a fairly large Nr, TGT and Tq, right in front of you works pretty well. If you need much more, then maybe you have too much info, but you can always put the EICAS on the inside screen. Personally I have found the set-up to work pretty well in emergency work in the sim regarding take-offs and critical phases. CRM and good crew communication between HP and NHP will always be crucial though.

[js0987]

True - true. I like the Cat A radar altimeter display and feel the same set up for the other indicators on the Nav page would help. I would describe the current set up as "rather small" as opposed to "rather large."

[Mr Toad]

Horror Box I think you have a point - TMI too much info at a critical time.
All we need to know is the NR, the highest limiter and it's time. Am I right in thinking modern Eurocopters (225 etc) have another vertical tape alongside the airspeed tape which combines critical values? Don't know how it deals with NR though.

[Horror box]

Yep - agree with the above, and again I think the 92 does ok here. Lose an engine, and the Nr TGT and Tq in front of you immediately go into 30 sec pwr limits, with the green arc extending, and a count down of how long you have left, then if you haven't done so already, after 30 secs the green arc moves into the two minute limits and then the max con. I dont think it could be much better as far as relevant info is concerned.

[SASless]

What happens to the display if you keep the collective tucked up under yer armpit for several minutes for some reason?

[HughMartin]

What happens to the display if you keep the collective tucked up under yer armpit for several minutes for some reason?

The "CAREER" caption on the CWP illuminates.

[Horror box]

What happens to the display if you keep the collective tucked up under yer armpit for several minutes for some reason?

Not tried yet, but I believe it goes from 30 sec, to 2 minute, then becomes obscured as various bits start falling off, shaking, all the lights go to auto dim as well as the MFD's and the aircraft finally becomes one with the scenery.

[WaveWarrior]

Mr Toad is right. The 225 has a FLI First limit Indicator which tells you what the limiting parameter of N1, Tq or TOT is so you don't need to try interpreting 3 gauges simultaneously. In the cruise it will pull to Max Continuous Pitch for the first limit, and will (in temperate climates) cruise happily at 145kts TAS at 11000kg max all up weight at FL 100. If you have an engine failure just after take-off commital point off a deck, and press the go-around button, it will accelerate you to Vtoss, pulling you to OEI HI (30 Secs) power setting while reducing the Nr to 96%. Then you have to actually start flying it yourself up to 200 ft and then accelerate to Vy while reducing to OEI LO (2 mins) before climbing out to 500ft and reducing power to OEI continuous rating.

The AP is superb. Flies an ILS fully coupled 4-axis and can cope with a speed reduction from 160kts to 80 kts in about 15 seconds without the needles moving off the glideslope or localiser in a 30 kt crosswind. Autolevels at 80 ft above the runway and lets you reduce to 30kts IAS fully coupled. Carries 19 pax, 880 lbs of bags/freight and full fuel with payload to spare. The best helicopter I have ever flown in my 31 years experience on 7 types. Anyone for the North Sea? Bristow is recruiting right now.

[MyTarget]

Anyone for the North Sea? Bristow is recruiting right now


Hmmm any slots in the shetlands?

[Mr Toad]

Thanks for the info, WaveWarrior. Got a pic of the PFD showing the FLI? At what point do you transition from Go Around to the next phase after Obstacle Clearance is assured (presumably still an FD Coupled mode)?

Clearly we're discussing two very advanced aircraft; and so they should be considering the gestation times...

[WaveWarrior]

Mr Toad

SOP is, prior to departure, to preset IAS to VNE-10 and ALT acquire to 1000ft offshore or cleared cruising altitude onshore/outbound. Once the aircraft has reached 500ft agl/amsl and Vy, ALTA is selected which terminates GA mode and engages 1000 ft per min ROC and arms the selected altitude for subsequent capture. Heading is then normally slaved to the nav system to follow the planned FMS route to destination. Upper modes of the AP are therefore normally engaged from TDP till short finals/LDP at destination, and basic AP is in from just before first taxi till shutdown.

I flew a 747-400 Captain in the jumpseat recently and he confirmed that all procedures are identical to fixed wing SOPs. He was pretty gobsmacked by the whole trip, especially when ATC told us to slow down on the ILS because we were catching the 737 ahead and encroaching on the recommeded vortex wake spacing. (He had expressed surprise at the start of the day when he found out we could actually do an ILS). The only thing missing at the moment is TCAS 2 which will be getting fitted over the next year or so.

[Bootneck]

Wave warrior, what are the conditions like for the crew? The tiger seat was an improvement when it was introduced with basics such as armrests and extensions under the thigh (I seem to remember inflatable lumbar supports which never caught on, or worked), is this new beast better?

[HeliComparator]

Bootneck

The 225 pilot seats are the same as the 332L, with the same lack of legroom! However the new deliveries are coming with different pilot seats (crashworthy) - these seats are smaller, lighter but IHMO more comfortable on long flights and with much more legroom. They have adjustable armrests and lumbar support, but they don't have rake adjustment - but I always had it raked right back anyway. Not sure if it might be a problem for the vertically challenged, but I much prefer them. Now it only remains for the first 6 to be retrofitted - Oops, forgot their lordships' bonuses:ugh:

HC

[victor papa]

Man! Must be a brilliant aircraft(the 225) if all you have to moan about is the seat-no engine or mgb failures! Seems from the previous posts you have enough time to think about seats being uncomfortable!

[Bootneck]

Thanks HeliC, the seat rake was always a bone of contention, having that facility would have made a lot of difference to many old bones. It does sound as if they've made a really good machine, again. :ok:

[TiPwEiGhT]

I hear from my collegues that the vibration and noise levels in the 92 are quite high. Some of them are wearing helmets to decrease the chances of damaging their hearing and also to help with the vibration.

[rotordude]

Big variations in vibrations between aircrafts. I guess it´s all in the track and balance.
The noise level is uncomfortable, in particular the slapping noise from the mainrotor. Norsk are now providing helmets to all pilots, as an effort to prevent hearing loss over time.

I thought this thing was supposed be be "New Technology".

[Horror box]

I hear from my collegues that the vibration and noise levels in the 92 are quite high. Some of them are wearing helmets to decrease the chances of damaging their hearing and also to help with the vibration.

Not sure where you got this from, but having flown both, the S92 is way quieter than the 332, and vibe is also considerably less. Certainly no need for extra ear protection inside. The majority of noise is generated from the aircon. The S92 comes under some flack from the Eurocopter fans, but it is a bloody good machine to work with on balance, and a huge leap forward from the old Super Puma days. Very comfortable to fly (as long as you have the new 'hi comfort seats!), excellent autopilot that will also fly a fully coupled 4 axis ILS to 50ft agl, 60kts (can be reduced to 55) in a 40kt x-wind (tested personally!), fly a full ARA coupled,and happily fly at AUM at FL100 at 140 KIAS.
I am happy with it, especially compared to some of the sheds I have flown and operated in the past.

[Variable Load]

also to help with the vibration

I'm sure the helmet will help a lot :rolleyes:

It should provide some good exercise for the neck muscles however. Surely a good headset will be sufficient? What were Norsk using prior to the change?

[rotordude]

Surely a good headset will be sufficient?
To some extent, yes. But the sound waves also reaches your inner ear through your skull, and might cause a hearing damage over time. Flying up to 7-8 hours a day in 90-100 dB wouldnt be concidered healthy anyway, but a helmet in my opinion, wil reduce the dB.

What were Norsk using prior to the change?
Mainly David Clarke headsets.

[212man]

Yes, seems non-sensical to me. A decent ANR or even passive headset would be a much better solution. I also concurr that although quite noisy, it does not compare to having two Makilas stuck on top of your head doing 30,000 Ng!

happily fly at AUM at FL100 at 140 KIAS.

Are you sure about that? One of the few occasions I need to adjust the AGW page (rather than just pressing UTIL - NAV) is when at higher levels, when 140 KIAS exceeds the MAUM Vne. In the absence of a Vne chart, it's not easy to predict.

[Horror box]

Are you sure about that? One of the few occasions I need to adjust the AGW page (rather than just pressing UTIL - NAV) is when at higher levels, when 140 KIAS exceeds the MAUM Vne. In the absence of a Vne chart, it's not easy to predict.

Yep, you are quite right - my oversight, over enthusiastic reply without checking the figures! Need to drop a few pounds and pull 86%, or adjust the AGW page!

[Limpopo]

Cannot comment on the S92 as I haven't flown in one, although on the radio have heard the aircon through the microphone of those that do. However, having flown the AS332L, L2 and EC225, the cockpit of the EC225 is quieter in comparison to the earlier models. It may sound noisier on the outside, but inside it is definitely quieter.