View Full Version : Yet another stupid Franco/English spotters party

26th Aug 2008, 20:10
My comments from AF off-the-runway landed here.

Funny thing though, and how on earth did I wind up the first poster?

G-CPTN, post #17 below, you guessed it. I posted a link to Con's thread after someone else started a new thread on the same subject.

Flight Detent
27th Aug 2008, 03:10
Errr...Montreal airport is an ICAO airport.....

therefore why do we need a "quick translation"?

or in fact, any sort of translation!!

(are you getting my drift here?)


27th Aug 2008, 04:18
Flight Detent;
or in fact, any sort of translation!!
We lost that battle in 1976 or so, not at all because of politics and "rights are rights", of course, but because it's not proven to be unsafe. Right?

27th Aug 2008, 06:42
Is it me of are they conversing in french over the tower?

27th Aug 2008, 07:35
Whats the problem? International airports must be able to provide a service in English if required by the aircraft. They are perfectly entitled to use the local language (Spanish, French, Russian, etc) if the aircraft is using it. In Quebec they speak French so, again, whats the problem?

The problem of situational awareness being lost by other aircraft not conversant with the local language has been thrashed out over and over but how can people not be aware by now of the legal situation?

Funny, though, the following aircraft was told to "pull up" (sic), surely he was told to go around? (Something lost in the 'quick' translation?)

27th Aug 2008, 07:42
They are indeed conversing in French. Didn't that cause a few problems at CDG a few years ago with a UK cargo operator? Seem to remember a few sentences from an accident report...

27th Aug 2008, 08:03
The question of spoken language appears year after year, decade after decade. It often came up when I attended Accident Analysis Commitee Meeting's for IFALPA. One thing you cannot not blame is ATC for the choice of language as it is the PILOT who speaks to ATC first and so chooses which language he / she wishes to communicate in. If the desire is for a single language to be spoken on ATC for air safety reasons, then it is the Pilot community who can achieve this by using only one language.

27th Aug 2008, 08:22
Apologies for my ignorance I always thought english is used throughout the world in ATC communications as an international standard especially at international airports.

Though are controllers trained to speak different languages?

27th Aug 2008, 08:52
The countries who persit in using their own native languages for ATC communications should agree to switch to 'English only' if a PAN / Mayday / Incident occurs. It is clear that any aircraft on the same frquency as such an incident will immediately fall out of the loop and will have no idea what is going on unless they speak the same language. How about 'Standard Language' as a standard phrase to indicate that from now on all ATC communications in 'English ATC only'

27th Aug 2008, 09:36
French ATC and pilots using French French in France is one thing that has been debated often here. At least, pronunciation is reasonably standardized, and a considerable percentage of Western Europeans understands French, too, so many foreign pilots are not completely out of the loop.

My experience during my admittedly short visit to Montréal was that while the locals could understand me quite well, I had a hard time understanding them. French friends tell me they had similar problems.

Thinking about the ATC / language situation in Canada has me scared:
- francophones from Québec speak their own dialect
- francophones from other parts of the country, if they attended a francophone school, will usually speak modern French
- anglophones will usually learn modern French in school and speak it with various degrees of enthusiam and proficiency
- pilots from the US tend not to understand French at all
- pilots from Europe will probably have a hard time, too, see above

27th Aug 2008, 09:38
Oh, ......I thought I had escaped the english / french hassles,share a poutine and a Schwartz smoke meat and all will be right.

27th Aug 2008, 09:47
Mods - I kindly request that all posts referring to r/t language be removed from this thread. Language was not an issue in this incident and therefore is NOT relevant to this thread! Thank you.

27th Aug 2008, 10:03
The countries who persit in using their own native languages for ATC communications should agree to switch to 'English only' if a PAN / Mayday / Incident occurs.
You'd be glad to know that AF procedures are exactly that : PanPan and Mayday messages ARE in English.
But that's off-topic. Language has nothing to do with this incident.

27th Aug 2008, 11:25
I thought Mayday was actually French in origin, from "M'aidez!" meaning help me......

27th Aug 2008, 11:27
Vraiment le français est une si meilleure langue pourquoi nous tous ne parlons pas de français ?

27th Aug 2008, 11:40
Mais si vortsa, nous en parlons de leurs bons vins et frommages.....quel domage.....

27th Aug 2008, 12:38
I suspect that yet again Jet Blast has 'benefited' from this thread being relegated from another forum, however it seems that some contributions have been deleted, in particular the reference http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/340606-aircraft-hijacked.html which tends to make the sense impossible to follow.
Can anyone give a clue what this is all about?

27th Aug 2008, 15:07

I think this was a sub-thread within AF 744 off runway at Montreal (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/340660-af-744-off-runway-montreal.html)
in R&N, hence it's disjointed nature.


Lon More
27th Aug 2008, 17:05
Ä bit more thread drift.

BRE Chuck in a couple of Walloons and it really gets fouled up,
'Est assur" tends to sound like "et ta soeur" prompting the comment from one irritated French controller to a Sabena pilot (in English) "My sister is a prostitute. She married a Belgian."

27th Aug 2008, 21:07
Well it all started when the PNS automatically said "merde" as they ran onto the grass.

Pilot Not Steering