Pre-flight safety announcement not understandable

[paddygranger]

I frequently fly using Ryanair and on more than one occasion I have felt that the flight safety has been compromised, due to language inabilities of the staff.

One one occasion, a young lady was asked by her supervisor to do the pre-flight safety. The lady was very nervous, an attribute which in itself made me, as a passenger, nervous. It was clearly one of the first times that the lady was doing the pre-flight safety announcement on a plane full of passengers. But I do not think that this is a valid excuse. Passengers have to feel that they are being looked after by people who are confident and able to manage situations. Pilots flying for Ryanair, in contrast, give me the feeling that they are capable and relaxed.

This aside, the problem really started when the lady started to talk. I know the pre-flight safety text very well, and could only barely follow at which point she was. However, most of what she was saying was not at all clear. Worse still, several points were missed out altogether. I am a native English speaker, and had great difficulty understanding any of her speech. My partner could not follow anything, and I am sure that the same applied for the remaining passengers.

At the end, the lady asked her supervisor, in front of all other staff AND passengers, how she had done. To my surprise, the supervisor told her what she had done wrong, but did not update the passengers. I was left shocked about how unprofessional the whole episode had been.

I would be interested if any others have had similar experiences.

[jolini]

I totally agree with you -- worse culprits seem to be the cheap UK Charter flights most of the CC seem to be illiterate I would hate to be in the hands of some young ex hairdresser in an emergency but I suppose you get what you pay more --pay peanuts and get monkeys.
On the same issue you want to try Onur Air ( no you don`t!!). This Turkish charter co makes dozens of flights from uk each week with a crew who can barely speak English and whose safety briefing is totally un intelligable!! I wonder if this is even legal but at least they have the excuse that they are Turkish.:ugh:

[apaddyinuk]

I used to cringe in QR when the SCCM would get one of the new asian crew to do the english pa's. They would naturally be nervous about it and a lot of the accents were hard enough to understand. Especially used to annoy me as they had me, a fluent english speaker available.

[TFlyguy]

jolini

I work for the country's largest charter carrier - and as a Cabin Crew Trainer, as well as Cabin Crew, I can assure you that neither my fellow crew nor myself are illiterate!

Nor are we cheap - merely inexpensive!!

[I Just Want To Fly]

Jolini:
I think alot of people put Charter and LCC in the same basket. They are infact very different! Airlines like First Choice and Thomson are of a very high calibre when it comes to their crew. They are the same people kinds of people who work at BA and Virgin. Just different uniforms. Don't make a generalised criticism about something you have no idea about.

Alot of people look at the fact that you have to pay for your G&T to mean that the airline is crap, and only the bottom of the barrell would work there.

I would say that over 90% of crew at the Charter Airlines come from the UK. The rest would have very good if not perfect english. So if the crew are from the UK, and are still infact illiterate, perhaps you should blame the education system and the government.

paddygranger:
I am not going to comment on Ryan Air's safety standards. It is debatable as to whether or not the 99p you paid for your ticket includes a seatbelt, safety card or oxygen mask, let alone a safety briefing! What do you expect if you board a Ryan Air flight? Silver service, free flowing champaigne served to you by Blonde British (perhaps Irish) Girls in a red uniform wearing Bright red lipstick!

The purser on that day was not good, but I have seen pleanty of safety violations from British crew at the Big British carriers! People are human beings - there's the genius, average joe, and the village idiot!

If you fly Hungarian Airlines, or Czech Airlines, do you expect the crew to have accents? What about Lufthansa and Air France? What about Alitalia or Iberia! Not a word! Do we complain? No because their first languages are not english, and we expect people who cannot speak english perfectly.

And I ask everyone who winges about people who can't speak perfect english to ask themselves one question.

How many languages do I speak well enough to pass a 4-6 week training course in cabin safety and service?!
By this I mean, could you pass the course if it was in a foreign country. Some of these crew can speak 4 or more languages!

[FairlieFlyer]

How many languages do I speak well enough to pass a 4-6 week training course in cabin safety and service?!

For the case in point, just one, as from their Cabin Crew jobspec:
Fluent in English (both written and spoken)

[jolini]

Suggest you read before you rant off. I never mentioned the comparison between charters and LCC although as you mention it I do find that LCC offer a far more professional standard of service than charters and I do not mind paying for my G&T`s in the slightest.
I was making a comment based on MY experiences on using charters ,LCC and others, over dozens of annual flights and as such feel quite qualified to offer my opinion --- it`s not something "I know nothing about".

The cabin crew are trained by their airlines not schools and although I am sure their standards of safety training are adequate ,their attitude to their paying customers leaves loads to be desired IMHO.

[TightSlot]

jolini - I don't know whether other users had nerves touched - you certainly touched mine.

If you wish to make a genuine point, or raise a genuine question, it helps if you avoid using language that is gratuitously offensive to those reading it.

...most of the CC seem to be illiterate...
young ex hairdresser in an emergency
pay peanuts and get monkeys

Accusations of illiteracy tend to be something of a double-edged sword. most especially when you own post is peppered with both spelling and grammatical errors that would make a teenager blush. The rest of your posts are perception based abuse, lacking in originality and insight.

I am sure their standards of safety training are adequate ,their attitude to their paying customers leaves loads to be desired IMHO.

That's fine, but in your original post you made a direct assertion that safety was to a lower standard on UK charter flights - otherwise why make the "hairdresser" comment. You are posting on a safety related thread: it is reasonable to assume that your comments relate to safety.

So far, jolini, you've made 4 posts on PPRuNe, one of which was argumentative and provocative and has been deleted. The others are little more than subjective, ill-informed rubbish, careless of the effect on others. Clean up your act, or leave.

[paddygranger]

Sometimes Ryanair use a pre-recorded message. This is a clear, safe and cheap solution. Why not use this?

I do not think that the price of the ticket should in any way determine the level of safety that you receive. There is surely a standard level of security in the aviation industry which should be strictly adhered to.

[grumpysnail]

paddygranger

I'm sure that if you politely advised the crew that you couldn't understand any part of the briefing they would explain anything you missed.

Recorded messages/video are OK, provided the PA speaker (or screen) near you is working. Crew standing in the aisle is a good heads up to pay attention - something you don't always get from some automated announcements.

Much prefer the live demo and, as a bonus, the cabin crew get to see who's paying attention and who's going to need "special attention" if something goes wrong.

[jolini]

My apologies if I seem to have upset you.
My posts were MY feelings and observations made as a result of MY flying experiences and of course people will have different opinions.
If the safety announcement cannot be understood clearly by all the passengers, then is it not a safety issue?
Could it not possibly affect passengers feelings as to the way they might be looked after in a real emergency if the first safety message they get on board often cannot be heard and understood properly , it certainly makes me uncomfortable and I am a fairly frequent flyer.
Other safety issues I have experienced are these:
Seat backs not in upright positions on take off and landing.
Passengers allowed to walk around when the seat belt light is on.
Passengers well over the top on alcohol, still being allowed to board and then served more during the flight. (This seems to be an issue well documented in the press of late! )
Again sorry to have ruffled a few feathers.
Jolini

[TFlyguy]

Sorry if I am missing something here but what is the connection between not being able to understand a safety briefing and assuming all Cabin Crew are illiterate?

Cabin Crew in the UK must pass written exams that have to be approved by the CAA in order to obtain their licences. Very difficult for anyone who's unable to read or write!

[Economics101]

Once again Ryanair seems to get singled out for criticism. If I can give my tuppence-worth, last year on a DUB-STN flight, some pax in the front 5 or so rows were not paying attention to the briefing, and may have been talking among themselves. They were firmly asked to pay attention and the briefing was repeated for the benefit of all, including the 3 or 4 ill-mannered louts.

Well done. Smack of firm Government. Reminded me of Maggie!

[west lakes]

Irrespective of accents, I would suggest that most c/c will be nervous the first time they have to make the safety briefing announcement.
No doubt they will have done it in the classroom in front of people they know, but for many people doing a PA in front of strangers is a nerve wracking experience.
But they have to do it the first time.

I don't know the background of some of the posters, or if they have ever had to stand in front of 150+ strangers and make an announcement - if not they should try it!
Most of the c/c here will possibly even admit to being nervous the first time they made the announcement though.

The biggest problem is that often, the first time they do it, the speed of delivery is too high, this means that often parts of a pre-prepared speech are missed and that words become garbled (a different accent doesn't help either). Also using a microphone often doesn't help as often it will pick up breath sounds of the "pops" when pronouncing certain letters e.g. P. Even where the microphone is held in relation to the mouth can make a big difference

So in other words cut folks some slack, if it was not understandable ask (as already stated above) for clarification.

[Flower Duet.]

I think it's amazing that Ryanair / Easyjet crew do there PA's Infront of Passenger's and most with big smiles and calm in there voice..

I am lucky to be able to hide behind a bulkhead or Galley, and it's not right just to single out Ryanair or other LCC the whole time. Give there Crew a break, It was the person's first PA and I'm sure they will get better in time.

I really feel for that crew member and I have been there before many times,
but all you can do is try and try again..

[psychopathbabble]

While I have to admit I do agree with your first post, in that when I have flown Ryanair, I have had trouble understanding the PAs... your post later on is unfair.

Have you tried doing our job? If you did, you would realise that a lot of people seem to think we have no authority, they can do what they like and often argue they know better about safety regulations. We can only try and ask them to follow the regulations... if they choose not to do so, unfortunately there is not a lot we can do! If someone chooses to stand up while landing, once we have repeated a request over the PA for them to sit down, there is nothing we can do without endangering ourselves. Even when the PA is made in perfect english, I would bet less than half of the passengers are paying any attention to the safety briefings. There is no consquence for actions like these (until someone gets hurt through their own ignorance).

Excuse the small rant, but just take a moment to think about how difficult our job is made through passengers being ignorant and disrespectful to crew, and maybe think about how you act towards the crew on your next flight.

[Juud]

I frequently fly using Ryanair and on more than one occasion I have felt that the flight safety has been compromised,


Paddygranger, are you seriously telling us that you continue to frequently use an airline where you have on more than one occasion felt that safety was compromised?

You have a death-wish man? :rolleyes:


PS: I have had a similar experience with a certain airline. After flying them 3 times I decided it wasn´t a coincidence. So I stopped flying them.
It´s not rocket science, is it?

[Hobart RockStarr]

I have to put my 2cents in here and agree with the notion that not all CC ARE infact as talented in English as they should be. Having worked for a Major M-E airline for some years I must say that I myself as Crew have often struggled to understand what is being said by my colleagues.
Whilst the matter of accents is a contentious one, would it not be best for a crew member with English as his or her mother tongue and clear diction to make announcements rather than one who, whilst having complete understanding, can only mutter away the same speil?
Nationality can't always be called upon as the solution, as I know many fellow Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, Saffas and Americans that have too heavy an accent to appropriately make a PA, whilst others with English as a second, third or fourth language have wonderful pronunciation.
I think the overall point of the thread was perhaps to highlight the importance of a safty PA being made by the most willing, confident, COMPETENT and appropriate person rather than who ever's free.
As for literacy, I would challenge anyone who says that the system for assesing it is perfect- again I have flown with crew members that would struggle to understand the instructions on how to use a tea-bag.

[Romeo India Xray]

I regularly use FR to commute to visit family and friends. On no other airline have I heard such low standards of English being used with such frequency for safety briefing/announcements. On several occasions it has been so rushed and accented as to be entirely or almost entirely uninteligable.

If this doesn't happen in my neck of the woods then there really is no excuse for FR (a native speaking EN airline).

RIX

[Abusing_the_sky]

OK, pull out the "I'm English you're not" card, will you...?
As for the rather nervous lady on the PA... I'll have you know that she could've been line checked... Which means she was examined for either becoming a CSS or just a regular annual line check (nevertheless examined hence why nervous)
To say the CC don't give a flying monkey because you're paying beer money to get safely from A to B... That is way out of order!
You could give me all the attitude in the world regarding prices, boarding, other FR flights, other airports ground staff (all of the above are NOT down to the CC on board!), talk throughout the safety demo and then complain about the landing but remember this: after all your moaning, should anything happen, i would still try to safe your life. Because that is what i do and that is why i am going through a 8-10 hour day, 5 weeks, training. Saving your a$$ should an emergency arise is why I'm there, in the a/c.
I suggest you get off your high horse and if in doubt, you can always join the company and go through the intensive training. See how you do and then talk...

As for the "I'm English you're not" card... I'll have you know that apart from English i also speak and write fluently in: Italian, Spanish, German, French and i have a degree in Latin. I'm sorry, but i don't speak CHAV...!

PS1:
I have to say TightSlot has it spot on!

PS2:
I do apologize to the genuine nice posters for the rant; as for the other ones (sorry, but i learned this from A NATIVE ENGLISH): you can sod off to where the sun don't shine!:ok:


Rgds,
ATS

[Flower Duet.]

Abusing_the_sky

Bravo !! :D

Bravo!! :D

My thoughts exactly ..:D

[Weddes]

Just flew delta last week, and cant help but comment here on their safety video. Was very hard to take seriously as the production company didn't appear to have. Worst moment had to be the shot of a flight steward give a cheesey smile with an additional CGI 'star' glint effect. Arrrghgh.

As for the accent issue - give me a strong Irish accent over a Manchurian or Scouser one anyday! And for those of us NZ/Australian/South Africans - have you considered that sometimes UK accents are uncomprehensible to us? Basically, it doesn't matter where you are from, someone will have problems understanding you. Maybe get the BBC to produce a standardised flight safety video (just don't use that lovely Irish girl!)

[Virginia]

Most people don't listen to the safety demo anyway. If we crashed they would all be clambering over each other anyway to get out, that's why I would be first down the slide!

[west lakes]

It's odd really

I speak English with an accent, MWL has a slightly different accent (different parts of the same county) YWL has a totally different accent (born & brought up in a different county)

A colleague at work is from the same county as me, his speech is incomprehensible to some of the local guys & vice-versa.

And I know for a fact that our call center in Lancashire has major problems understanding local accents, from an adjacent county

A guy I know in the town speaks with a mixed Cumbrian/Italian accent work that one out.

With the numbers of EU residents in this country how someone has not come across different accents in their daily lives and learned how to cope with them is beyond me

[Romeo India Xray]

I have no problem with accented anouncements as long as they are clear enough to be understood. Having a strong accent then rushing through the script at break neck speed is what I dont like to hear. Some FR crews have rushed to the point where I as a native speaker would not understand them.

I am also an Aviation English examiner and I doubt some of these culprits would attain ICAO level 3 (i.e. they would not be operational in ICAO speak if they were to have to talk over the radio).

If you have a strong accent is there really a need to be so rushed? We fly to many FR destinations and our CC have to make the anouncement twice (local language and English), and available time is rarely a problem. The script is very similar to FR's so if you have an accent try to anunciate each word clearly.

ATS, from me it will never be an "i'm English and your'e not". I just wish for aviation to be safer for everyone!

RIX

[baftabill]

Can I ask what your training says about the fact that inevitably there will be some passengers who know where the exits are, and some who have no idea, don't know where the lifejacket is and have no idea what depressurisation is?

What assumptions do you make in an emergency?

[VAFFPAX]

You will often find that on airlines based down south (read IBERIA or TAP) you will have a professionally recorded video (or audio) play back, which relieves the cabin crew of doing a safety demonstration in English.

I think as an English-speaking country (well, two countries), we expect an English-speaking airline to be, well, English-speaking, without accents. But then again, Northerners might not clearly understand the southern accents (or the West Country/Devon/Cornwall/Wales ones), or vice versa, even though they are from an English-speaking country.

Hell, I sometimes have trouble trying to make sense of what someone from north of the border (and I love Scotland, I really do) is saying, or worse, someone from Kent or Essex, and they are just around the corner.

If there IS a problem with a pre-flight announcement, I suggest you a) raise it with the cabin supervisor, or b) in a letter to Ryanair, stating the flight number and the date, so that they can look into it.

S.

P.S. ATS - bravo. Das war super. :-)

[The Real Slim Shady]

jolini

Other safety issues I have experienced are these:
Seat backs not in upright positions on take off and landing.)

Well that certainlywasn't Ryanair.


Passengers allowed to walk around when the seat belt light is on.


That isn't Ryanair either. We do not allow that at all - even though the Poles always try!

Passengers well over the top on alcohol, still being allowed to board and then served more during the flight. (This seems to be an issue well documented in the press of late! )

That is a problem which afflicts every airline. A drunk or intoxicated passenger at the gate is the handling agents problems. If they can get rid of them on to the airplane it becomes the crew's problem.

Baftabill

Can I ask what your training says about the fact that inevitably there will be some passengers who know where the exits are, and some who have no idea, don't know where the lifejacket is and have no idea what depressurisation is?

That is why we tell you in the demo and have, facing you on the back of the seat in front, a safety card. If the passenger can't be bothered to listen or read the safety card - the have a serious problem if the sh1t hits the fan.

EU Ops says:

An operator shall ensure that:
(a) General:
(1) Passengers are given a verbal briefing about safety matters. Parts or all of the briefing may be provided by an audiovisual presentation.
(2) Passengers are provided with a safety briefing card on which picture type instructions indicate the operation of
emergency equipment and exits likely to be used by passengers.

It doesn't say we have to make sure they have to listen, read or understand the safety briefing.

The passenger has a responsibility for his / her own safety and the safety of those around as much as the crew or operator does. You cannot simply devolve all of the responsibility to the crew and play the Penn Hadow defence.

[baftabill]

Can I ask what your training says about the fact that inevitably there will be some passengers who know where the exits are, and some who have no idea, don't know where the lifejacket is and have no idea what depressurisation is?
That is why we tell you in the demo and have, facing you on the back of the seat in front, a safety card. If the passenger can't be bothered to listen or read the safety card - the have a serious problem if the sh1t hits the fan.



Blimey, that's a bit hardcore....

You've done 4-6 weeks safety training, and we get a card in the seatback and a 3 minute vid, and then we're on our own?

I'll tell my mother to take a train.

[The Real Slim Shady]

You'd be better of telling her to watch the demo, listen carefully and read the safety card. Identify her nearest exit - which may be behind her - and have an exit strategy.

Don't you check where the fire exits are in pubs, cinemas, nightclubs, theatres, stadiums etc when you get in??? Or is that an aircrew thing?

[baftabill]

Yes, I do look for exits in lots of places.
I also count rows to the emergency exits in planes, but that isn't really the point.

In emergencies people act in ridiculous ways, and the professionals in charge have a duty of care.

The vast majority of passengers will have never visualised what an evacuation will looks like.
What they do have is a clear model of what you do when you get off, so you have people getting baggage from over-head lockers in life-threatening situations.

The vast majority of passengers have never considered what happens when you get to the door of an aircraft in an evacuation. Intelligent people will do stupid things and walk into props or jets. The safety briefing doesn't mention that does it?

I assume that all CC are trained in close to real-life simulations and so have models of behaviour in their heads.

I also assumed that CC training would be on the basis that the passengers will be pretty useless and that all CC would be prepared for that.

Obviously not.

[west lakes]

I've been involved with safety (non-airline) for about 25 years, and taken the time & trouble to study reports from a lot of sources.

The realities of incidents can actually be frightening. Most people do NOT in any situation prepare for the "just in case" situation, they stick to the familiar. There are reports available (sorry I don't have the sources available) showing that in fires people walk past highly visible escape routes to use their normal entrance/exit from a building (seen it here in fire drills, we decided to block the normal door, folk walked up to the obstruction & removed it rather than seek an alternative exit 3m away [next time I'm going to fill that route with smoke])
Similarly in a number of aircraft incidents the same mentalities can be seen: -
In this thread the confusion over the inflation of the bag on the oxygen masks - people are used to seeing these devices in medical programs where they do inflate. (checked with the wife who is a nurse, most bags inflate some don't)
In the comments about Limoges regarding the overwing exits - who is responsible for opening them - the Pax sat next to them, but that is unfamiliar so they followed the normal route.
The ATR fire, folk hovering around the aircraft not knowing what to do and walking past the fire - it's unfamiliar territory and a lot of the species inbuilt survival skill has gone. (see danger, run away)

No activity is ever risk free, those that think they are should think again, the reality of life is that death & injury will happen.
In a lot of safety legislation the words reasonably practicable or an equivalent are used. The accepted sense of this being that if the improvement in safety would be small (e.g. reducing the effect of a rarely occurring incident) but the costs (not necessarily in monetary terms)
of achieving that are high it is deemed reasonable to accept the small increase in risk.

An extreme example
There are over 3000 deaths on UK roads every year, one way of reducing this figure could be the only allow road vehicles to travel at a maximum of 30mph - is that reasonably practicable - no

Airline safety
Have a room (auditorium) set aside at each gate at every airport and give a minimum 1 hour training session to every passenger before every flight - is that reasonably practicable - no

We need to accept that risk exists, we need to learn to do what we can as individuals to reduce that risk in concert with the professionals that deal with it daily.

Anyone on this site, obviously, has access to the internet - how many passengers take the time and trouble to find (for themselves) and read other sites out there that give air travel safety advice either for themselves or someone they know.

The airlines do what is required by law, the law usually sets the minimum standard, they can legally do more but in the end the passenger will pay for it.

[west lakes]

and the professionals in charge have a duty of care.


Yes to meet the standards set down for them

The non-professionals also have a moral? duty of care for themselves and their fellow passengers

(something that I think is dissapearing in this modern society)

[slip and turn]

Re post #28
Sorry to have to qualify the first denial and shoot you down on the second Real Slim. :} As a training captain (I think?) you might be interested in some of the following, and have the means to press a point internally on the second one because I think it needs sharpening up a bit now.

On the first point you are relying on the fact that most if not all of the current Ryanair fleet now has seats that simply do not recline other than under the strain of the weight of 120 kilo personages. Thats a good thing if it is now standard across the fleet, because in the past I got fed up with catching cabin crew's eye and pointing out reclined seatbacks they'd missed.

As for moving around when seatbelt sign goes on I've noticed an increased trend in the last year or so. It may partly be because Ryanair has opened a whole new market which includes a large number of immigrants to Europe who use Ryanair to stay in touch with their far flung extended families, and who I think still do not understand much, if any of the safety briefings in any of the recordings and until they came to Europe were not regular fliers!

These are the ones most likely I think to undo safety belts almost immediately after landing (listen to the clicks!) - saw it first hand again a couple of nights ago as a Dad unbuckled himself and his daughter, let her stand with her back to the seat in front, and started messing around with the contents of a bag even before we we had turned down the main taxiway!

Same family had allowed their ten year old son on the other side of the plane to unbuckle near the window and climb across his sister and mother into the aisle to find the toilet as soon as we had levelled a bit after initial climbout.

In the seat behind them, a chap with his wife and 8 year old daughter took the Seat Belt sign on Approach as a signal to stand up sort out his bag and rearrange the luggage bin for a solid minute or two. I suppose a little discretion can be exercised for that, but I thought he was at it too long - but no-one spoke to him or went to help him.

Just prior to departure whilst taxying this same guy had asked a cabin attendant if his daughter could use the toilet. She was crying. Answer was "No not now, after take off." Unfortunately no mention of seat belt signs. So it transpired that it was touch and go whether this guy or that other family in front would be first on their feet after takeoff irrespective of the funny little light above their heads! I could see them both itching to be given some kind of other sign that it was ok before the first kid got the nod from his Mum and climbed across :p. No cabin crew were near (busy in their corners I guess) so when his mother turned in my direction I pointed to the sign and said "Seat Belt sign...it's not off yet". They buckled up again till it was.

The cabin crew know full well what the now typical multiple seat belt clicks soon after landing means but they rarely make any announcement unless someone stands up and stays up and by doing so encourages others to do the same. Which is just what we had (again) before we turned right onto the stand the other night.

This final announcement from the (Polish I think?) number one (same flight as all the above anecdotes) was clearly "Would you please sit down as we haven't parked yet". Again nothing about seatbelts but maybe she knew the dog-trainer command "Sit down" is more effective at that point.

Throughout the flight I could infact understand the gist of most of her announcements about scratchcards and gift items, but I wouldn't say she was fluent. I would guess she had conscientiously learned much of what she needed largely by rote during her training. Which shows commitment of course. The after landing announcement tailed off into something sounding like "welcome home-coming home". but the bit telling us we had landed 25 minutes ahead of schedule was standard and just fine (BTW how did they do that? The STN airborne time for the outbound leg of that route that night was 20 minutes after sheduled departure time, and only 2hrs55 before we landed back! A minimum 900nm round trip for a helicopter on a great circle! They did it in less than three hours including the turnaround and taxying at the other end :eek: and/or :D

Oh and I think I experiencedanother Ryanair first on my outbound trip - I am 95% confident that I heard the FO make a clear inflight PA recommendation from the flightdeck to "buy scratchcards to help charity", and the number one smiled when she heard it! I assumed she'd dared him or some such! I think most of the crew were Spanish or Italian on that one, including flight crew. Not sure if scratchcard sales were up or down, but I am sure the cabin crew will have made a good note of the nmber they sold on a special form before landing :p.

All in all though, the service 'does what it says on the tin' to a very large extent so most passengers might be unaware of, or just unwilling to voice the little things which perhaps need tightening up to optimise safety per the rules. Flight crew may also be unaware of some of these things which perhaps regularly occur down the back when they are busy at the front.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Slip, I don't dispute any of the points you make. It is a process of re-affirmation and stressing that seatbelt signs have to be obeyed. However, when it comes down to it if they don't obey the seatbelt sign there is little the cabin crew can do to enforce it depending on where the airplane is of course.

What the passenger has to understand is that failing to obey the seatbelt sign renders the insurance invalid; thus any injury to them, or any injury they cause to others, is their responsibility.

It is very frustrating when, as happened to me going to an Irish destination, a passenger decided at about 1000ft on approach that he needed the toilet and promptly unfastened his seatbelt and stood up; the purser informed that the cabin was insecure and I am left to make a PA telling him to sit down and buckle or we will go around, at a critical stage of flight. This was a native English speaker too.

We simply cannot legislate for human behaviour: all we can do is try to minimise the fallout from it.

[Romeo India Xray]

I heard that toe brakes were invented by God, for the amusement factor of applying them abruptly whilst taxiing to gate, in order to reaffirm the mandatory "seated with seatbelts fastened until stopped at terminal and lights turned off".


RIX

[Abusing_the_sky]

factor of applying them abruptly whilst taxiing to gate


My favourite (as a last resort of course) thing; makes me chuckle and think "we told you so" after hearing some heads banging against the seat in front and some "ouch" and then silence.


But of course, only as a last resort :}


Rgds,
ATS

[Romeo India Xray]

Exactly, exactly!!! :} Its not like they can ALL claim to be both blind and deaf (and if they are then they should have stated it on booking and it should be on the manifest).

I am dreading flying in the operation that I am starting at the moment. We are going to be sans CC. Dread, horror, face to face with PAX. :eek: I think I will need to get my hitting stick out, or failing that find some very unpleasant air to get into :} (no worries about the landings, they are always unpleasant when I am driving ;))

RIX

[Seat62K]

"VAFFPAX",

A few posts back you wrote "English-speaking, without accents".

Everyone has an accent - a person's accent might be different to yours but it doesn't mean that he/she has one and you don't! Even "Standard English" is spoken with an accent.

(The same point applies when people refer to "ethnic groups". Almost invariably they're referring to ethnic minority groups. Everyone is a member of an ethnic group.)

[VAFFPAX]

Seat62K, you misunderstand me. I pointed out that it appears to be the expectation (i.e. a clear BBC Radio/TV English, without regional inflection, and especially not a 'foreign' English accent, i.e. not a regional inflection coming from the British isles).

I know I probably was overly sarcastic when I made that comment, but if you read my original post that you quoted this from again, you will notice that I said that regional inflections are inevitable, and that I also referred to my embarrassment of sometimes failing to understand people from Essex and Kent, even though, geographically, they are closer to me than Scotland (Glaswegian accents are tough for me).

Personally, I don't have a regional inflection. It always confuses people when they try to figure out where on this lovely island of ours I'm from. "You sound too posh to be from so-and-so, you sound too flat to be from such-and-such" is what I get told often. But at least everyone agrees that they have no problem understanding me (except that I should dial up the volume).

S.

[Seat62K]

Linguistic sociologists have demonstrated that, in relation to accent, regional variations in England increase as one moves from upper class to middle class and then to working class - that is to say, amongst upper and upper middle class people there are the fewest variations based on region. This is why upper and upper middle class people frequently speak with a similar accent wherever they come from in England (except for those whose roots are in the working class who have not "lost" the accent of the communities/families they were raised in) and why, say, working class "south" Essex and Suffolk people often speak with different accents.

[JEMAVION]

I've often wondered how far cabin staff are expected to go if a pax disobeys the 'signs'. Quite a few years ago I was on a flight when a woman got up just as we were taking off and was struggling uphill, presumably to go to the toilet. In the event she was rugby tackled from behind by a stewardess. Was that an over-reaction or what?
In these parts, the standards are quite high but was on one flight where the announcements were made by pre- recordings and they managed to give the pre landing spiel before take-off and the pre-take off on the approach; most of the pax didn't even notice!

[wannaBAgrad]

I have read this thread with interest. I am currently a language student and have taught English as a second language, so I am very patient and understanding with regards to other people's level of spoken English.

However, each time I fly with FR, I find that the clarity of English used in the PAs is ridiculous. This morning I flew with FR and all members of the crew were totally incomprehensible. At times it was hard to tell that they were speaking English. As a result, I have written a letter to FR.

Yes, their level of English is high enough to go through the training course, but when addressing a plane-full of people, it should be clear enough to be understood by native speakers. This, unfortunately, is not the case.