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View Full Version : Spanair - no footage?


PanPanYourself
21st Aug 2008, 12:24
I was going to post this on the Spanair thread on Rumours and News but thought better of it. That place is a hornets nest of holier-than-thou pilots and sensationalist journos.

Anyway, all the rampant speculation on that thread made me wonder why there aren't any cameras monitoring take-offs and landings on runways in the developed world. You have hundreds if not thousands of security cameras inside any given Western airport, why not put one or two more to watch the runway?

Shirley if such a thing existed the Spanish press would have their hands on it already so we would know. Investigators would already have an idea of what happened and we wouldn't have to listen to mind-numbingly ignorant speculation of talking heads and SLF on CNN/BBC etc..

Just curious...

bar fly
21st Aug 2008, 12:28
I had smimilar thoughts PPY. I'm sure there will end up being footage from either CCTV or at least a spotter but it may well be confiscated for the use of the investigation before being released.

Time will tell. Having said that, I don't remember seeing footage of the BA 777 coming down short in Heathrow a few months back....

G-CPTN
21st Aug 2008, 12:40
One wonders what the view from the tower looked like . . .
As I understand, the aircraft landed up (down?) in the gulley between the runways:- Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world! (http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.5283979&lon=-3.5685611&z=16&l=0&m=a&v=2)
(so it is shielded from the surrounding terrain).

DX Wombat
21st Aug 2008, 13:17
Thank goodness there isn't any footage available to the general public at least the dead can have a little privacy and dignity from ghouls and bloodthirsty onlookers, not to mention unscupulous money-grabbing photographers out to profit from a terrible disaster.
Before anyone asks, yes, I would take photos but ONLY so that they could be passed to the AAIB (or equivalent). There is absolutely no way I would ever publish them or attempt to profit from the misery of the relatives and friends.

ArthurR
21st Aug 2008, 13:28
DX Wobat, I have to agree with you, its bad enough to have an accident happen (any type) where there are fatalities. How do you think the relatives of the victims would feel, if every time they turned on the TV, they would see their loved ones dying :mad: what do you wany next bar fly, PanPanYourself, public executions. Isn't bad enough that this happened, without the sensationalist press displaying it over and over again.

PanPanYourself
21st Aug 2008, 13:50
what do you wany next bar fly, PanPanYourself, public executions.
What's your problem Arthur? Just a grumpy old man or what?

I just asked if there are cameras monitoring runways and if not why not. I figured they would be useful to investigators and therefore perhaps let families know what happened to their relatives sooner rather than later. I never said anything about replaying them over and over on TV.

If you want to be holier-than-thou go to the other thread, otherwise get off your high-horse. You're just as curious as the rest of us or else you wouldn't click on a thread clearly titled "Spanair - no footage?" :ugh:

bar fly
21st Aug 2008, 14:43
what do you wany next bar fly, PanPanYourself, public executions.


I don't quite think that wondering about the lack of crash footage is akin to wanting to bring back public executions now is it? I'll admit that if footage was released, I would be curious and watch it but I don't think there's anything wrong with that, nor disrespectful to anyone. Should the 9/11 pictures be sensored from our view to protect the dignity of the thousands that died Arthur?

No, what I wany know is whether it should be compulsary for landings and take-offs to be recorded since they are the most likely sites for aviation accidents.

Juud
21st Aug 2008, 15:56
PanPan, that's a bit rich, complaining about pilots, pious or otherwise, posting on R&N.

I was going to post this on the Spanair thread on Rumours and News but thought better of it. That place is a hornets nest of holier-than-thou pilots...

Perhaps remembering the website's name is helpful: Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

The description of the Rumours & News forum might also give you a hint:
Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

ArthurR
21st Aug 2008, 17:46
PanPanYourself and Bar Fly, I looked here to see what the comments were about no footage, I flew from Madrid for 3,5 years up until December last year, I have worked in aviation for over 45 years. I belive there is footage, but no that should never be made public. Its only purpose should be for the investigation.

You mention 9/11, how many times was that shown on TV round the world, I think that has made my point.

Beatriz Fontana
21st Aug 2008, 19:47
I agree in part, ArthurR, but the other iconic pictures of 9/11 - that of people falling from the towers - are hardly shown because of their disturbing content.

There are some things that really shouldn't be published by the media, and a person's last moments is one of them (unless full permission from the family has been granted). I don't think showing the aircraft breaking into bits is going to progress the story.

x213a
21st Aug 2008, 19:59
I agree with the comments about R&N.

There are plenty enough on here who do not feel the need to wear our aviation credentials and show them at the slightest opportunity in order to engage in a willy-waving contest.

All R&N disaster threads follow the same format anyway...

Accident occurs-

link is posted, someone lambasts the link for citing wrong aircraft type or journo incorrectly describing a particular SOP.

Somebody posts the METARS.

Condolences all around until the willy-waving begins and people publish how many hours on type they have with whatever.

Same conclusion is always reached...wait for the investigation report...thread then binned to Jetblast.

Funny thing occurred the other day also concerning the tragic light aircraft midflight. People on, or from R&N trying to 'claim ownership' of the accident due to one being a commercial A/C.

How utterly utterly sad.

ArthurR
21st Aug 2008, 20:31
Beartriz, my point exactly, the press only continued to show the aircraft flying into the towers, more sensationist than some person who has jumped, God knows what was going through their minds when they actually did that. I only hope I never have to make that decision.





9/11, never forget, never forgive

Blues&twos
21st Aug 2008, 21:41
The thread seems to have slipped off the point a bit.

Are there airports where runways are monitored?

How would you pilots feel about that?

Assume that the video would not be released to the public, but as PanPanYourself suggested it was used purely as another tool for investigation after an incident, to help explain the cause (much like FDR/CVR).

dazdaz
21st Aug 2008, 22:13
Sometimes I have premonitions, see my post here, scroll down the forum page to see 'time stamps' and replies from other posters as to the forthcoming result to a football game that I predicted, read the the posts as the goals go in........
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/321754-liverpool-v-arsenal-tonight-7-45-ko.html

Madrid incident.....Fan blades detached, cutting fluid hoses to controls. We shall see.

Daz

Brian Abraham
22nd Aug 2008, 01:00
Fan blades detached, cutting fluid hoses to controls.
I'd trade in that crystal ball right now daz while there is still a market.

PanPanYourself
22nd Aug 2008, 10:19
No engine explosion in Madrid plane crash video (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/22/plane.crash.madrid/index.html)

"MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Video footage of the Spanair MD-82 which crashed in Madrid Wednesday killing 153 people does not show any sign of an engine explosion, contrary to some witness accounts, according to reports.

Spain's El Pais newspaper reported Friday that video taken by the airport authority, AENA, did not show any engine explosion while the plane was taking off, The Associated Press said...."




Well I guess that answers my question.

dazdaz
22nd Aug 2008, 19:31
Brian Abraham (http://www.pprune.org/members/75111-brian-abraham) we shall see, the reports will tell. By the way, check your testicals I fear there may be trouble in that area.

Daz

I. M. Esperto
22nd Aug 2008, 22:02
I would suspect that crystal balls would cause a pilot to fail his next medical.

However, a pilot WITH crystal balls would certainly work very hard on smooooth landings.:)

PanPanYourself
23rd Aug 2008, 01:57
Juud,

Do all Norwegians have sticks up their asses, or just the ones I meet/interact with?

BTW, I know the name of the forum.

Brian Abraham
23rd Aug 2008, 02:44
check your testicals I fear there may be trouble in that area
I'm a dullard. What are "testicals", and what's the trouble with them? :confused:

con-pilot
23rd Aug 2008, 02:48
I'm a dullard. What are "testicals", and what's the trouble with them?

Well done. :ok:

tinpis
23rd Aug 2008, 02:50
Do all Norwegians have sticks up their asses, or just the ones I meet/interact with?

Pulls up comfy chair,beer,popcorn,waits....http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/beer.gifhttp://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/popcorn.gif

merlinxx
23rd Aug 2008, 03:16
Come on Juudyou can't let 'Panpan self abuse' get away with that!

PanPanYourself
23rd Aug 2008, 13:55
Come on Juud you can't let 'Panpan self abuse' get away with that!
OMG, please let me get away with that. :uhoh:

One should never prune when drunk.

Very sorry Juud. :sad: