GF losing Omani pilots [Archive]

fractional

21st Aug 2008, 09:57

It could happen any time. They wouldn't go earlier because the package wasn't right. I guess things have changed. Anyone on the packages across the board? I don't think it's just a matter of home coming or pro-national attitude.

skywaytoheaven

21st Aug 2008, 10:18

Probably as a result of the atrocious rostering they couldn't get home more than once a month. Im sure more will follow them out the door unless the big A upstairs goes on a course for life style planning!

fractional

21st Aug 2008, 10:25

unless the big A upstairs goes on a course for life style planning!Agreed, when the word managers are typed with small letter instead of big letters just like MANAGERS.
Throughout, my professional life, I heard very frequently this sentence: "just don't do anything they do because you will lose your authority..."
These are very little-minnow managers.

Propellor

21st Aug 2008, 18:14

Sal-e, is your news correct? I find the number 16 very hard to believe.

Sad day - well, well, well.

I would not call all of them good or great - some survived and got promoted purely because of the DGCAM and its grip on GFA. However, the average was good, with the excellent youngsters making up for the older crap. The now-resigned HOT was certainly of the latter class.

BTW, is the CP leaving as well?

ironbutt57

21st Aug 2008, 18:16

Hope not.....

Che Guevara

21st Aug 2008, 18:29

Sal-e
Once again, I have to agree with you...they are a 'great bunch of guys'. I will also be sorry to see them go.

Chao

repapips

21st Aug 2008, 19:38

Geez!
And i thought the GF exodus has stopped!
Maybe time for another round of increase...to keep the boys happy...or simply put...to keep the boys...

.Aero

23rd Aug 2008, 11:33

Worrying development... :bored: they must be desperate for experienced pilots... no quick fix on the table yet

brassplate

23rd Aug 2008, 11:35

....round of increases? yeah right. gf has the smallest purse in the region.

Ali Baba

23rd Aug 2008, 18:43

I dont think you just bored want to start something new? whats their names?

fractional

24th Aug 2008, 10:22

whats their names?:ugh: Is it relevant to have names?

40&80

24th Aug 2008, 11:37

In GF you are only a staff number.

fractional

24th Aug 2008, 16:49

In GF you are only a staff number40&80,
Don't think so. It's everywhere nowadays. Your feats are a one time timid celebration (if you get one at all) and your errors will have multi-complications...
Unhappy, do what you have to do and move on if you can.

brassplate

24th Aug 2008, 20:51

ali baba,
you typify the mentality of the airline....finger pointing, blame game, head hunting etc. why don't you focus on the issue and stop looking for names?

i believe this news of an omani exodus is true and inevitable and there is nothing gf can do about it. i think they were slowly becoming ostracised and isolated as an ex-gf member.

gf's pride and lack of finance/planning will prevent another raise in terms and conditions for the omanis and everyone else for that matter until ey or ek decides to sniff around for some more poaching action.
gf/bahrain looks like it is slowly disapprearing into oblivion. let's look at what it has:
-small size
-small economy
-small airline
-small purse
-small plans
-small minds
-big ambitions
-big hopes
-big talk
-big in arrogance
-big disappointments
-big mistakes
-big problems
-big losses

it does not take a genius to see the above.

brassplate

26th Aug 2008, 15:44

all this begs the question.
with the fleet expansion plans, will gf bring in decs if they cannot replace departing captains fast enough from the current pilot pool? we have been told time and time again that this will never happen. will they now lie to us? this will definitely not bode well with the pilot group.

Sal-e

26th Aug 2008, 16:00

You have a point there brassy. I was told by a friend once that for every DEC hired, an extra two F/Os are needed as well because of the two who resigned in disgust.
I hope it does not come to this.

obsidian

26th Aug 2008, 16:18

its confirmed nearly all resigning in time,the a340/330 guys as well once oman air recieves there 330s,me thinks next year...shame really nice guys..main reason like some body earlier on mentioned was planning,rostering and the decaying technical status of the a32o fleet..
i think a couple of bahrainis as well are leaving few to emirates and arabia..:(

ironbutt57

26th Aug 2008, 17:42

I reckon every effort is being made to NOT hire capts...see no sign of it so far, but we are still the only carrier here tht does not do so....

fractional

26th Aug 2008, 17:47

brassplate, I don't think WY will be much bigger than GF in the long run. Oman's economy isn't bigger or richer than Bahrain's.

Albergineman

26th Aug 2008, 18:18

Soon or later GF will hire DEC's, it is just a matter of time and forget what was said on previous pilots meeting about no DEC.
The situation is just different now than before, with flights departing with two captains, new SO/FO's are just dropping on line and now this number of resignation that will make effect on November-December...
All transfers and upgrades are stopped until October, only few FO's are under upgrade training from the +20 that made PAC's in last June-July.
For this year we have just the next two A319's to join the fleet so this do not make too much difference on my opinion but for 2010 we will see a bigger expansion...
Hopefully we will have enough new FO's to supply the demand otherwise DEC will be required for sure.

Carioca773

26th Aug 2008, 20:36

well most of the guys who left have been in bah for atleast over 10 years, and being away from home yet home is only an hour flight is abit frustrating.. i'm sure everyone of them have great memories and will always relate to GF but if you get a chance to go back for almost the same pay and a seriouse plan for the airline to expand then why not being part of it and do it for our country....

it was easier back then when there were lots of flight to MCT.. and as well lots of lay overs in MCT, but with GF being owned by BAH obviously all of that had to stop and consequently we have to make a sad decision and go back home and support WY.

on the other hand most of the guys ex 767 who were told they will be on the 320 didnt like the idea, and the guys already on the 320 with this new planning (rostering only tries to fix planning's mistake) had enough of the up and down and min rest everywhere..

about myself i have no intention of leaving but its sad to see some of my friends leaving and other good guys as well...

brassplate

26th Aug 2008, 21:28

i would say fair enough, Carioca733. you gotta do what's best for yourself, first and foremost.
it was good of gf to see the writing on the wall regarding you guys (sarcasm). i can see them trying to revamp the conditions just for the omanis (not). this whole bahrainisation thing is costing the company good pilots and ushering in a generation of wet-behind-the-ears fledglings which will be great for the core of experience (again, sarcasm).
in addition to departing omanis, disgruntled experienced f/os, and even locals, all that gf needs now is an exodus of instructors and that will bring everything to a grinding halt. after the lies endured by the instructors, i wouldn't be surprised if that's the next thing.
i can see gf (as always) meeting those problems (all problems) when they happen rather than nipping them in the butt and preventing them.
is there anyone there who has foresight?

Trader

27th Aug 2008, 03:46

Provided GF has enough 2-3 year FO's who came with some experience it should not be an issue. Last I saw (from a friend still at GF) there are about 70 FO's with 3 years plus time at GF (less a handful of career FO's). Each year that passes with less than 70 upgrades means there is always at least some supply of guys that should be upgradeable.

So the issue is in how fast aircraft are arriving. If each a/c requires 5 or 6 captains that means it would take well over 10 new aircraft in one year to start depleting the available FO's to a critical level.

...of course, this assumes no one is leaving in large numbers :)

I would guess that CC will be able to keep his word.

International

27th Aug 2008, 14:10

Can you elaborate on the Rad Gamage story?

Sal-e

27th Aug 2008, 18:11

40&80,
Just wondering, did those two widows eventually get their husbands entitlements? If so, how long did it take? And if Rad's widow hadn't fought for hers, how much longer will it take after a year? I'm wondering if GF is doing all this on purpose or simply entanglement in red tape? Maybe a more efficient procedure should be in place to deal with this problem in the future.

ex desert dweller

28th Aug 2008, 15:29

It seems amazing whenever any Thread receives posts re the Rad Gammage debacle, the threads tend to tail off and end with with no positive contributions.

May I suggest it would be in the interests of anybody remaining in GF employment and anybody considering joining to establish their entitlements and procedures to obtain them should similar events befall them.

It is one year, on the !0th September since Rad passed on. Still no conclusion to his affairs. He is no doubt, rightly, looking down in disgust.

brassplate

28th Aug 2008, 17:39

ok let me end this

15 to 25 omanis leaving
5 to 15 bahrainis leaving too (even locals are not immune to exoduses)
20 decs on the big busses coming soon (late next year?)
resulting in 30 to 50 first officers resigning.

shall we call it quits then? unless others want to elaborate.

obsidian

28th Aug 2008, 18:34

yea my new roster sucks!:ugh:may be i should swap with sale:E
and by the way cabin crew have no nightstops for them in india everything is a turnaround! flightdeck get off and the rest continue...nice one naf and cain...:yuk:

Sal-e

28th Aug 2008, 19:58

You can have it, obsidian. All 92 hours of it.
As for our lovely subcontinental lasses, this means less 'home' time for them. Hmmmm...

tbaylx

29th Aug 2008, 02:37

I am a bit lost on the DEC thing. It would seem to me that there are a good number of F/O's that have been there awhile and stuck with GF through all this crap the last few years. I know at least a few of them personally and all are qualified and experienced enough for an upgrade. What benefit is it to the company to hire DEC's at this point if they have enough suitable F/O's for upgrade?

ironbutt57

29th Aug 2008, 06:37

Haven't seen any evidence of DEC's as of yet..sure it has crossed their minds, as it is common practice here in the Gulf, but as of yet havent seen it happening, however if the senior, qualified f.o.'s resign then what are they supposed to do?? Right now, they are feverishly trying to bring the 320 up to appropriate levels, so the fleet transfers to the widebody can resume, and the commands are in full swing..when the bus-let is staffed sufficiently, then the widebody transfers will resume...

Sal-e

29th Aug 2008, 11:44

There is a lot of command upgrades from the big busses to the buslets(:ok:@ib57) at the moment. But probably not enough evidenced by current rostering.

New Captains normally require a specified time on the 320 fleet before moving up a fleet(right?).
With more buslets coming (this year and next), there will be need and pressure to keep those captains where they are.

Meanwhile, big busses arrive next year and continueing for the next 3-4 years. There will not enough drivers to fly them because if GF continuely moves captains up from the 320s, eventually all the 320 captains will be blueliners. Not ideal.

I think there might be a need to upgrade 'any' First Officer who meets command requirements, regardless of where they are on the seniority. All of these guys will be on the 320s.
When these guys are depleted, that's the point where I think GF will bring in DECs for the 330/340s.

Che Guevara

29th Aug 2008, 17:31

Meanwhile, big busses arrive next year and continueing for the next 3-4 years.
If you are talking about the 3 leased A-330s, then yes it seems like they will arrive, however continuing for the next 3-4 years...well, put it this way, if Flight International's Census of the Skys edition (19-25th of Aug.) is to be believed, then GF's only 'new' orders are for three 'Buslets', as you put it. Sorry, they have also ordered 16 787s but they are way down the airway, certainly more than 3-4 DME I'd say. But then again, it was in the GDN so it must be true (big Airbus order etc.) Airbus takes cash mate, not talk.
Here's my take, 2 leased A-319s arriving pretty soon, EO, EP, ER will have to be put out of their misery (shot perhaps or put out to pasture) which leaves us with one new 320 arriving this year....result, fleet size = the same + two more of RJ's finest. I'm probably wong, but it sure looks that way.
Fruit for thought perhaps...

Chao

Sal-e

29th Aug 2008, 19:34

Great way to get pilots, Mailbag....through jealousies. By the way, Oman used to be a partner with GF so that's got to count for something as far as seniority goes. It is not their fault that Oman wanted out. Definitely not 'unearned' as you put it. I certainly hope you get pushed back down the list because you are not doing the pilot group any favours.

BOB 323

29th Aug 2008, 23:19

Hey Mail Bag! I agree about one or two who already joined are below standard but they made it into oman air which means they are safe enough and have acceptable standard how ever the next batch to join, certainly have high standards. and they dont need to jump on to 330 as they are already living in them so wether you like it or not,they will continue flying the bigger bus even in Oman Air.Have a safe one in your little ATR.

priceless

30th Aug 2008, 01:23

very nice ..... keep it up .....show the world how untied we are :mad:

Propellor

30th Aug 2008, 05:51

Isn't it odd that UNTIED and UNITED are anagrams! You could jumble one and get the other!

BTW, Sal-e, what happened to your 16 Omani pilots quitting? GF had received only 2 last week - that of the HOT and one Capt. on the minibus.

So, did the other 14 vanish in ether or were your imagination?

Seems that the thread been a Bogey!!!

Sal-e

30th Aug 2008, 17:10

Oh they'll trickle in between now and the end of the year, Propellor.

And then they'll shove the likes of Mailbag and Camel Humper to the bottom of the heap where they belong.
Like I said. Oman used to be a member state of GF. They were the ones who abandoned their boys at GF. Now, it's a way of getting them back. So shut your venomous traps and get used to the fact that your command will be put back a few more years because of Omanis who are far better and infinitely more superior at the job than you are!!

obsidian

31st Aug 2008, 11:15

well said sal-e and dont worry about mailbag full of crap!,and he is right he shouldnt be worried about his command because he is absolutely useless as an fo! so he wont get command! hehehe:E

SCATANA

4th Sep 2008, 01:32

All I'll say is that these so called "GF16" are some of the finest pilots/people i've ever met. Loosing them would be a huge loss to GF.

40&80

4th Sep 2008, 09:05

Yes...Sadly true as I think Gf paid meg bucks to fully sponsor all their licences and their training abroad from zero flight hours.

ironbutt57

4th Sep 2008, 10:47

Yes it is indeed a major loss for GF, had the pleasure of spending many hours on the flt deck with many of these chaps..best wishes and Godspeed to them all:ok:

all119

4th Sep 2008, 15:08

Gulf Air has to learn a lesson form this
The first one is that they have to recruit bahrainies as soon as possible or they going to loos all of them mister Bahrain air is here.
Secondly they can’t keep there expect pilot happy even if they increase there salaries.
Thirdly never mess around with Bahrain air from now.
Frothily never underestimate Bahraini man power (as you can see with Bahrain air, airarabia etc)
Best of luck with all the problems THE BIG Gulf Air.

Sal-e

4th Sep 2008, 20:01

Huh? I'm busy now. Can I ignore you some other time?

Carioca773

4th Sep 2008, 20:04

all119

u need some english lessons...badly:bored:

Carioca773

4th Sep 2008, 20:06

nice one sal-e....what he said didn't make any sense!!!

all119

4th Sep 2008, 21:24

Carioca773 (http://www.pprune.org/members/229780-carioca773) your English is perfect. I will send you ICAO level 6 certificate
Send me your B.O.X number

Flygulfair

5th Sep 2008, 14:37

All119 :ugh: What and why? lol

SW_US

5th Sep 2008, 20:20

ok ok ok ok ok

Mow

5th Sep 2008, 23:50

Gulf Air is BIG and always been there for all of us. Our or at least my best days was with GF. What I have from GF is moslty good stuff. However, organizations sickness is a disease and will affect all around orgs. sooner or later. Enjoy your golden days now, as it is going to seaze.

repapips

6th Sep 2008, 07:15

i wonder how these guys would fare when the real English test is implemented...

JABAL

6th Sep 2008, 17:55

40&80 I agree wholeheartedly:ok: not only they managed to get the best package among all nationalities in the company,but they got all the promotions and upgrades dispite oman pulling out:confused: the next time am back on this earth i would like to be brought back as an omani:*

Sal-e

6th Sep 2008, 21:48

Refer to my post #44.
I agree, it was a windfall for the Omani boys. But it was still WY who had to agree to their requests.
All kudos to them, guys.

A90A3192021

17th Sep 2008, 23:42

What do you think the chances are for Abinitio Bahraini pilots within the next year? There are over 70 that I know of that are undertaking training at the moment..;)

cheers

downNOgreens

18th Sep 2008, 02:52

Need a lot more, my friend.

JLQ

18th Sep 2008, 02:54

Anyone able to give me the latest information on the minnimum upgrade experience requirements and a rough idea on time to command.

Also, is the company stable with the recent spike in fuel prices?

Thanks. J