Another ATC handshake deal?

[RAAFASA]

Anyone else heard a rumour that ASA and the RAAF have a secret agreement that the current round of recruiting (read - poaching from the RAAF) will be the last? Could well be just rumour mongering - not sure it could be proven anyway.

Even if it's true, both providers are still going to be understaffed, perhaps it's just a case of maintaining a balance....:hmm:

[BurglarsDog]

No
Not yet

DogGone:E

[BeGoneTFN]

ASA management is capable of anything, they are desperate as a consequence of gross negligence!!!!!!!!!!!

By all accounts the end is near, the irish have arrive to headhunt as ASA (ineptly) attempted in the UK and Ireland 12 months ago, payback is a b*tch.

ps you RAAF guys would do better OS, trust me

Go you good thing :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Captain Sand Dune]

Sounds like the unofficial, unproven and always hotly denied rumour a few years ago that the RAAF had reached a "deal" with QF for them to stop accepting applications from RAAF pilots.:E

[ForGreaterSafety]

Yeh, this sounds like what happened in 2005 also, but it didn't stop them this time. I reckon it's a furphy.

Cheers

[Roger Standby]

Airservices stick to an undocumented agreement?

Bwah ha haha ha haha ha ha... ooh it hurts

NO HOPE:hmm:

[undervaluedATC]

Airservices stick to an undocumented agreement?

Bwah ha haha ha haha ha ha... ooh it hurts

NO HOPEhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/yeees.gif

They won't even stick to documented ones.:ugh:
Our current EBA - which does not expire until 21st Dec - includes the standard "no extra claims by either party for the life of the agreement" clause. But they want ATCers' to agree to obligatory overtime by signing a "memorandum of understanding", prior to 21st Dec.

funny how AsA is happy to ignore that clause when it suits them.

[Bill Woodfull]

obligatory overtime

= sex and travel advisory 101.

[ElPerro]

ps you RAAF guys would do better OS, trust me


I doubt your tactic of convincing RAAF guys to go elsewhere will assist your desire for a shortage and hence pay claim. :hmm:

I can't see ASA signing up to an agreement that could be invalidated by a court of law (for breaching laws regarding restriction of trade) anymore than the R.A.A.F. would.

[No Further Requirements]

ElPerro:

I can't see ASA signing up to an agreement that could be invalidated by a court of law (for breaching laws regarding restriction of trade) anymore than the R.A.A.F. would.

Hence 'handshake deal', ie, no paper trail, all under the table, cash no receipts.

And I don't think AsA will keep up the deal, just as they didn't last time (supposedly there was a handshake deal in the past, but who knows....)

We live in interesting times boys and girls.

Cheers,

NFR.

[Bill Woodfull]

I can't see ASA signing up to an agreement that could be invalidated by a court of law (for breaching laws regarding restriction of trade) anymore than the R.A.A.F. would.
There was such a nudge nudge wink wink deal for about five years from around the mid nineties to the new millenium.

I know plenty of RAAF friends who applied on-line for ab-intio Airservices courses in that period and were told that they could not and would not be considered.
I doubt your tactic of convincing RAAF guys to go elsewhere will assist your desire for a shortage and hence pay claim
An uninformed comment of the highest calibre. You don't have a schmick about the reality do you? It was merely sage advice to fellow Australian professionals.

Its beyond help now mate, the body is now a corpse...its end game.

Hence the lack of rhetoric everywhere.

By the end of October when the next batch of 'new' Irish and Emiratis (sp?) have served their notice and gone, someone call a priest.

No Further Requirements, read Elwhatsit's other posts - he's a wind up merchant, from the bottom...

...or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

[Roger Standby]

Air Marshal Binskin says I also urge you to look closely at the culture, environment and current working practices that are evident in outside employment

Very good advice.

[Track Coastal]

I recognise the competitive external environment and have directed the investigation of targeted remuneration options in the short term
Smells like another retention bonus. If 44WG had any nouse it would be say a $120,000 lump sum for 5 years commitment payable to anyone who holds or has held an APP endorsement, with the option of dropping it all into your MSBS pre-tax.

They would want to act really fast (within a week) or the horses will have bolted.

[bob55]

What are the chances the Irish would employ a RAAF controller with joint user experience but no ICAO license?

[BeGoneTFN]

Elperro, matey.

Stating a fact buddy, I have worked for these clowns for nearly twenty years.

My older collegues are leaving because they don't want to deal with these wa*kers through another EBA, it only gets harder.

One very experienced 30+year veteran ex senior management now else where, ex controller, prior to departing said.

"this is the worst state I have seen the organsition in 30 years"

and that was over 2 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh:

Its a coincidence the EBA is up, it would have come to a head now anyway as the place has been screwed by an expert, aka TFN.

If you worked a rotating 24 hour roster for these people you would feel the same way, the RAAF is a very attractive option at least the management of the place would be predictable and a half bit competent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Whats your history, you got the cred to comment???????????? :hmm:

I wonder.

BgTFN

[beamwidth]

What are the chances the Irish would employ a RAAF controller with joint user experience but no ICAO license?

Sorry Bob, I'd say zero.

So far we have 40 direct entries lined up, out of some 150+ applications. Priority given to currnet valid ICAO licence.
Seems we've picked up a lot of your kin either directly or via the sandpit.
That's the situation here in the emerald isle

[undervaluedATC]

RAAF ATC Offered Bonuses to Stay
Tuesday, 09 September 2008
Air Force personnel offered bonuses to stay on
Source: ABC News Online 9 Sep 2008 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/09/2359877.htm)

Around 150 Air Force traffic controllers will be offered $30,000 to stay on in their jobs for an extra year.
Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon announced the money in Darwin today as part of $6 million to prevent the controllers leaving for the civilian marketplace.
He says trades personnel will also be offered a $20,000 bonus to stay on as an interim measure in a tight labour market.
"It does give us that breathing space as we develop other initiatives," he said.
"We are of course currently doing a Defence white paper and alongside that white paper a number of companion reviews looking at a range of issues across Defence, including the important people challenge."



so now the military wage is on par with the civil one.

If only the civil wage would regain parity with the global ATC wage, our staff exodus might end.

[kam16]

Good luck to them.
Can not see airshambles doing anything like this for us though.
After all their hands are tied by Gov regs/can not increase charges/100mil profit can not be touched............(add any excuse they can think of here)........
I'm sure our compulsory OT will solve all their problems??????:ugh:

[bob55]

It's a once off deal that only lasts 12 months - this might buy them a very short amount of time to fix things but if they think they have solved the problem they're in for a nasty surprise in 12 months -not to mention the many controllers who were not eligible due to outstanding return of service obligations (even just one month left makes you ineligible).

[Hugo Beaving]

Word is the RAAF bonus is only targeting those controllers it thinks AsA wants. FLTLT and SQNLDR only with Supervisor endorsements. Any Junior Controller with less than 7 years experinece gets nothing, the Public Servants who are holding East Sale, Edinburgh, Oakey and Nowra together get nothing. Word is there are a few about who are not happy at all. Mind you, those who have no intention of leaving think its great - money for nothing really.:=

Only plugs the hole until September next year when the 50 or so who have applied to AsA in this round start leaving.

[max1]

The RAAF have to throw 150 x 30k to hang onto the controllers. Good luck to the blue shirts.
Does this mean that TFN owes the RAAF 4.5 mil for putting them in this position through his 'lack of workforce planning'?

[Howabout]

Good point Max. I have sympathy for you guys that have to work for such a seemingly inept shower. I doubt that I have ever seen such a level of antipathy towards "management", in any organisation, as I have on these pages with regard to your "betters".

[C-change]

Good to see the bonus worked.

Another eight resignations for a Jan 09 en-route course.

[undervaluedATC]

Good to see the bonus worked.

Another eight resignations for a Jan 09 en-route course

how odd that JH has not given that update on his thread about training on the work intranet....

[ER_BN]

Undervalued ATC...more on your suspicions,

Rumour in BN Centre last week...

Apparently over the last few weeks AsA has been interviewing experienced controllers aka Global Recruiting 1, except this time no big advertisements, no big spin, etc etc etc.

Interviews done in OZ ie ? BN, ML, CB??

Potential interviewees:

- foreign controllers,

- ex AsA controllers some pre TAAATS,

- more blue shirts.

TFN or JH mentions this in any PR Spin?

Wot's next....beanies and black dobermans??

[undervaluedATC]

Good to see the bonus worked.
Another eight resignations for a Jan 09 en-route course
Re-reading this I realised the above was open to interpretation.

C-change do you mean that 8 RAAFies were scheduled for a conversion but have decided to stay in the RAAF, or they have given (2 months?) notice and start at the Academy in January?

ER_BN ref: beans and dobermans: Isn't that what the NOC shop is for? But seriously, I hope that AsA is trying to find more controllers. I just hope it is not for the reason I suspect. As direct.no.speed already asked "why are they only finding them now?"

[undervaluedATC]

Direct.No.Speed - I've heard the same - I did say "but seriously" right after.

maybe C-Change is on precious days off?

[ER_BN]

UV ATC and DCT NO Speed,

Okay, asked around and definitely interviews with older ex AsA ATCs, RAAFies and Europeans in CB BN and ML

Probably safer doing interviews in OZ given most applicants found it hard to find Zurich in Germany last time.

I am just interested that this time no big hullabaloo.

Dobermans old ones from Peter Reith and will be used to encourage recalcitrant renegade controllers out the homes's door and back to work.

As stated by someone on the Civil Air website the AFP have not been asked to go and get controllers yet?

[C-change]

UATC,

Sorry, I was enjoying the weekend.

To clarify, Eight offerred a Jan09 en-route course with 4 each to BN and ML. As of Fri, six said yes and had/are in process fo resigning, with one still in negoiations over $$$.
One has decided to stay put in Blue, probably taking $30K bonus.

Also heard two ex Blue (not controlled for approx 10yrs) offered TMA positions. That was heard second hand so could be a myth.