EK recruitment Stop

[Sputnik80]

I just got the information that EK has stopped all FOand DEC recruitment for the time being.
However company politics and political pressure is pushing for American pilots to be recruited.This is apparently happening behind the scenes and American Pilots are being invited for interviews.

Can anyone confirm this from EK?:ugh:

[fatbus]

Where did you get this info? Lastest I think is a tempo stop for the summer and a large num ber of app's are from the states.

[145qrh]

"However company politics and political pressure is pushing for American pilots to be recruited"

Sounds a bit like rubbish to me. Last I heard they were trying to cut down the amount of Americans coming due to more than a couple of " training issues"

[TOGA!]

145qrf,

Racism is alive and well in Emirates is it? BS.

[pool]

The stop is not surprising considering the delays of some T7s. Additionally EK seems to sell their two A310s and these crews will reinforce the other ranks.
So it's probably only temporary.
This could give them some time to get the recruitment up to quality again. Training issues revealed their somewhat desperate "if it can walk and talk, we'll take it" mentality.

[EGGW]

You mean 3 A310's!! Yup, they are on there way somewhere else. Drivers to be redeployed on the Boeing and Airbus FBW, commands delayed for the 310 f/o's who in some cases were 2 days away from starting their upgrade :ugh:
Anyhow, if they miss the freight runs, the 777 freighters will starts arriving in the 1st quarter 2009

EGGW

[fatbus]

Those that were involved in the training issues know their background ( experience ) and nationality, its not a secret.
Some did the max extra( flts and sims) and just made it through , they should feel very lucky to be here.
For those thinking of EK, it is not train to standard. Its make the grade or go packing. LIFUS is only 10 sectors( 5 trips) and then a line check, lots of home work required.

[fractional]

It will be just a TEMPO. The USD is rebounding.

[QAR]

"However company politics and political pressure is pushing for American pilots to be recruited"

sounds like bulls++t to me as well..the last I heard from a Insider that the training dept have been a hard time training this american guys that have recently come in...

ek training dept is trying to cut down on the american intake if they can!!!

[cf680c2b]

Alright guys, sounds to me like you guys are insinuating that some countries produce better pilots than others. Now that is b#!@t.

I don't think this is an American issue, this is an experience and background issue. As we all know, a little while ago EK was not recieving enough applicants so they lowered requirements a bit. What is happenning is a direct result of that decision.

Due to the state of the industry in the US, the applicants on file now are alot more experience so there should not be any more issues with training.

Don't be affraid boys, the Americans are comming whether you like it or not. Its just a matter of numbers and the US is where the numbers are.

cheers:ok:

[EGGW]

Cut the American bashing please.

These guys may have low experience of worldwide ops for sure, nothing to do with nationality. Many others have struggled before, many will in the future.

Any more will be deleted..

EGGW

[777-200LR]

Maybe the Americans are coming as you say, but don't expect them all to stay long or some to come at all. Many of these guys have never flown out of the US and some even themselves have never left the US mainland ever! So what makes you so sure they're going to love our lovely dubai way of life...?

And no particular country produce great pilots, some might just be lucky and worked where is a good standard of training.

[MTOW]

No one's saying "Americans can't fly" (!!), but quite a few, particularly in training, (and even moreso, among the ranks of the hapless Effohs), will tell you that more than a few Americans who've come to the Sandpit are unwilling to fly (perhaps 'operate' would be the better word) the (some would say 'unique') way EK wants them to.

Shoot the messsenger if you like, but to paraphrase our US cousins: "dem's da facts, bro."

[cf680c2b]

Times have changed. They will come and they will stay, for the same reason that the canucks, brits, ausies, kiwis, brazilis, etc did......NOT MANY QUALITY CHOICES LEFT BACK HOME.

I'm sorry I cannot comment on the second part of your statement because I don't get what you were trying to say. If its worth it, pls. elaborate.

[cf680c2b]

Stop beating around the bush! Just come out and say it.
Only then we can get this conversaton started right!

But make sure you got your ducks lined up otherwise I smell a roast comming.

[allaru]

Re recruitment inhumane department are probably busy cooking up some shonky deal for Fly Dubai, ie carrot dangling entry into EK, but no promises mind.

Re the yanks they come from a culture of practicality in flying, and probably find EKs cadet style mentality a bit different to say the least.

[allaru]

I stand corrected having just viewed the Fly Dubai package.

The Fly Dubai guys will be able to fly for 5 years or so in order to get the experience required for EK DEC (ie 5000 to 8000) then come to EK and take a pay cut. starting salaries EK Capt based on 80hrs 37230dhs, Fly Dubai 41000dhs

[mensaboy]

I have flown with a large number of Americans in the past 6-8 months and have not yet run across one of them that was not a good pilot. In fact, I would say on the whole, they were above average.

There is the tendency for shoddy RT though, and even then that is only about 1/4 of them. But man, that Chuck Yeager, ''Roger that, undershtand cleared down 24 OH'' crap gives a good indication of the likely long winded, confusing RT to ATC. I think it is just a symptom of having flown so much in N.A.. It usually is not a big deal, but on the other hand, it is so easy to fix I do not underSHtand why the few don't make the effort. It is one less hole in that sliced cheese model in my opinion.

I now ask if they wish the first leg for a couple of reasons. One, they seem to prefer flying out of DXB and into new destinations, which I think is wise. And two, they tend to use standard RT after listening to me do my best at standard RT on the first leg. It is just a theory...... feel free to ridicule me..... I don't mind.

[Wizofoz]

Brings up an interesting point, Mensa. What IS standard R/T for EK? Can you cite a document that tells us which standard (and there are several world-wide) we adhear to?

This was actually highlighted by LOSA, and SHOULD result in a definative document being issued soon(ish).

[Payscale]

Standard RT for EK is CAP413. No more no less:ok:

[atiuta]

I can confirm that we adhere to the Oxford dictionary and the CAP413.

Oh, also heard that FlyDxb will not be a breeding ground for EK.

Caveat Emptor

[mensaboy]

Well there you go... I always thought it was ICAO Standard RT.

You make a good point though, this reference material is long overdue at EK. Apparently this document is 'in the works' right now. This is what I am told and it is happening because there has been a decline in standard RT by pilots. (regionally and by EK pilots)

To be honest, I don't care if ICAO or CAP413 had stipulated Yank slang as standard either. What I think is important is conformity and standardization. If ICAO/CAP413 decrees that a clearance to squawk 6429 should be read back as ''6429 coming down'', then so be it.

I once read an ICAO document explaining in no uncertain terms correct RT. I was amazed at how many mistakes I had been making and for that reason I made an attempt to fix them. It took about 30 minutes by the way, although I probably still make some improper RT.

In fairness to everyone, pilots are never taught proper RT, except the basics. It is learned by osmosis. You learn from what you hear on the radios, which can vary greatly depending on region. ATC on the other hand is taught proper RT and for good reason, it works best !

And by the way, it is not ''This is Emirates 123, or The Emirates''. There is a reason it is callsign with nothing preceding it. Many different callsigns would begin to sound the same if preceded by ''This is.....or The'' In other words, ATC can more easily pick up on the callsign.

Sorry to hijack the thread, my apologies. I realize some people think it is pedantic and trivial, but I believe it is important. Worst case scenario... I am wrong and improper RT never has and never will contribute to an accident... I still argue that it is so easy to learn proper RT we should do it. I truly hope EK is publishing a suitable document, even though I'm sure a few pilots will disparage it because they believe it is beneath them.


I am aware that some regions use a few variations to standard RT, such as the proper wording to declare a fuel 'urgency vs emergency' state. These variations are published somewhere but overall most of the world complies with ICAO. I do not know for certain, but I would guess CAP413 is almost identical to ICAO.

I cannot think of one valid reason to use NON-standard RT. I can think of one very good reason to use it.... FLIGHT SAFETY. It is the same reasoning behind SOP's and standard calls made within the cockpit.

[Wizofoz]

I can confirm that we adhere to the Oxford dictionary and the CAP413.


That was my belief also, but can you give a reference for that?

[pool]

Is "Insh' Allah" part of CAP413 or ICAO standard? - Just to show that shoddy R/T is not a American particularity when talking about pre-suff and affixies.
What beats me is the number of "unstable approaches" (in EK terms) at our home base. To shove it off onto ATC or the airport layout would be too easy. There is a greater portion of FOs at controls inbound (mostly their own choice), so this would point to a specific direction: Previous experience, adaption difficulties or inadequate training of necomers. To my experience it is not only Americans, it's their higher actual number that strikes. I think it's the average background that doesn't adequately match our environement or the short-cut training is too stereotype, too sop-bound.

[fatbus]

AS put out a memo , maybe FCI, a couple of years ago stating EK offical RT ref is CAP 413 and not ICAO.
I think the US pilots have been bashed enough, those that had trouble all know who/where they came from. Thats over now and I think that experiment is done you might say.

[nolimitholdem]

Getting knickers in a twist over slack R/T discipline seems a bit misplaced when a large proportion of the folks you talk to over certain vast regions are barely capable of speaking English...period.

ICAO Level 6, my arse.

Yes, yes, more of an argument in favour or standardization than against it, I know. But when someone is barely comprehensible due to their poor grasp of the language, thick accent, and insistence on compensating by speaking at a ridiculously fast rate, my worries are a little more fundamental than wondering if they're using "CAP13 or ICAO".

More like WTF ARE YOU SAYING, talk slower, move the microphone closer (or further, depending) and LEARN THE DAMN LANGUAGE!

:*

[woodja51]

All good stuff mentioned by all above - just as a matter of interest, if you use 210KIAS @ 3000 feet as a limit point you almost never end up with an unstable approach - on any aircraft ... funny how this is actually SOP for several other operators I know, or have worked for... try it some time.. works a lot better than the 1500 ' thingy we have now...

Also used to be ....and maybe still is... a rule in some CTR's anyway...

Saves the DAMASCUS ONE arrival problem I think... sorry hijacked thread a little but sort of SOPS stuff..W:bored:

[EGGW]

Right this thread has drifted enough..... Please start a new thread on EK R/T discipline if you like.

Thread Closed

EGGW