2400 hrs SO or FO

[handflown]

Hi Guys,

I have 2400 hours, 1300 of which are 737, rest Biz Jets.

I have applied for Direct Entry First Officer (as I meet the advertised requirements) but still have not heard back yet. Does anyone know how long it takes to have a reply if at this time in the market.

Also I see on this forum that similar if not more experienced guys and gals are applying for SO.

With my experience/background am I more suited to apply for a Second Officer Position?

Any pointers welcomed.

Kind Regards,

Handflown.

[EngineOut]

Much more chance at SO, most SOs have in excess of 3000hrs. I am gathering you probably don't have any command time either. A lot of the SOs have come of jets.

[handflown]

Thanks Engine Out.

Would you advise re submitting my application as SO?

[Left Wing]

1300 of which are 737...go to middle east or vietnam with option for fast upgrade...

[EngineOut]

just email or ring them and tell them you would like to be considered for SO also.

[alanmac67]

My time is about the same as yours (2400 hrs). I am going on my second interview in HK next month for SO. I think you would have a good shot at SO with your time.

[Glorified Donkey]

How will you get an ATPL with no PIC time?

[Kameel]

picus time is also good enough for your atpl

[IRISHinUS]

So what are the competitive times for new hire DEFOs?

I have over the 3000TT with over 2000 jet time but SO pay is not really attractive to me but I'd consider going for the FO pay. Meaning I'd prefer to stay put until I get the competitive mins for FO.

Any words of wisdom?

[Flyby1206]

I doubt there will be many DEFOs for the next 6months-year because of the pilots brought onboard from Oasis. There are lots of DEFOs already in the pool waiting for a 2nd interview. Also, not sure how much PIC turbine you have, but it looked like most DEFOs had at least 1000 PIC turbine and 4000+ total time. If you can wait a year or more until getting hired as a DEFO then you might wait it out and see what happens.

[IRISHinUS]

Sounds good. Thanks for the info.

[Aerodmb]

Any advice for speeding up an interview offer? Maybe drop them an email and/or phone call?

[Rhodes13]

Aerodmb how about having some patience? You're not the only one applying are you! If this were an American carrier would you be ringing them up/ hassling them?

There are plenty of guys out there that meet the mins at the moment. Me it took two and a half years from first application till I got the letter of intent.

The way it looks at the moment though you might be waiting longer than you think!

[Aerodmb]

How about having some constructive input a-hole. God help us all if we have to fly with you someday for 14 hours!

[flynhigh]

Aerodmb

He's correct, I hate to tell you but it will be 6 to 9 months before they start calling again. They have CNX all DEFO interviews in N. America until mid-2009 as they have over 50 people who have passed both interviews and are waitting for class, also they are CNX all DESO interview this year . So maybe you would get a call sometimes in Sept or Oct 2009, I said maybe as no one can tell you when they would call. Good luck to you.

[Dan Winterland]

FYI, the HK CAD require 2800 hrs to validate a foreign ATPL into a HK ATPL. prior to this, they will issue a CPL.

[DDDOF]

FYI
I had over 7000 hours when I was hired as an SO over 4 years ago and that was about the norm, DEFO guys were mostly ex TWA Capts and F/O's, etc with thousands of hours of heavy jet time. It might be heading back that way again, just change the name of the fourloughed airline.
And actually DESO pay is equal to or better than DEFO pay, as DESO's are HK based and get a 13th month pay(we'll see about this year) and housing allowance. not to mention they get a lot more days off than DEFO's.

[IRISHinUS]

Well, that's interesting, however, talking with a few buddies in the same situation as me it seems most are typically just focused on DEFO because we believe we could be based closer to home rather than having to live in Hong Kong rather than the actual salary. Are any commutable schedules available as SO? By that I mean a week off in the middle of the month or something like that? Does CX provide free travel systemwide for pilots?

The other problem is that right now many of us are senior FOs/ junior CAs on RJs/Tprops and so are building reasonably good quality flight time at the rate of 900 hours a year (or so) that will be valuable if one of our favourite national airlines (enter your own preference here) ever decides to start hiring again. I'm not even 100% sure what kind of time (e.g. average in a year) an SO gets to log? :confused:

I suppose it depends on whether you would consider Cathay for a career or not. The way things are going (in the US, at least) it might very well be the preferable option:sad:.

[Gravox]

As an s/o I have around 18 days off a month. I'm on what is known as W pattern, or a supercompact roster. I'll do 2 Longhaul routes back to back. (typically for me its HKG-Lax- HKG, 19-30hours off, then HKG-LAX-HKG) when I get back from these flights I have a minimum of 8 days off, sometimes if luckly out to 14, but usually 9 or 10.

I'm not sure how the DEFO interview works, but I found the DESO interview geered up to see if you could handle the Expat lifestyle.They want to know if you can live in HKG. This IS a huge hurdle and is the downfall of many of my friends who didn't get thru. But in saying that they are happy back in there home land flying for the national carrier even if it is 'deadmans shoes'. Some are still flying Turboprops waiting for the phone call from the national carrier as well.

For me it'snot about the hours in the logbook anymore, but the time I have off, and the lifestyle. I joined Cathay with 4000hours, 1000hours f/o 737. The role of S?O is a little boring, but then some of my mate love it. Each to their own.

If you love what you're doing, and you love where you are, if it's not about the money, or the lure of flying a big jet then why would you come? The grass isn't always greener.

you don't get free staff travel with Cathay, you pay for it. There is no free jumpseating like in the US either. Flights are at an all time high in capacity, so be prepared to be bumped.

Good luck with your decisions.

[flynhigh]

I was just told they will not have any classes for new hires until 2010 sorry for the bad news. I hope it change soon.

[Forward CofG]

It depends on Freighter or Pax Command. It is seniority and performance based for Pax command.
Presenty the Pax command guys are going through at 9 1/2 years. With age 65 retirement and the present economic slowdown, it will start pushing out to 11 years. The guys joining right now will probably be looking at 14 years.

On the Freighter side who knows? With Pax commands going longer than expected maybe all the guys will put in for an early freighter command and this will cause the time to be about 8 to 9 years, although it is a lot lower than that at the moment.

[Humber10]

If you join a day after a S/O, you will have to wait until that S/O has upgraded. So basically it will take the same amount of time to upgrade regardless if you joined as a DEFO or as a S/O. But anything can happen/change in 10-14 years while you wait to upgrade....