Air Contractors Atr

[greenergrassairlines]

Hi all can anyone out there working with Contractors tell me how the roster works out for irish based crews. I believe its 2 on 1 off 1 contactable - Are crews been called out much on the week contactable and what distance must you be living from DUB/SNN. Looks like there is not much turn over there, so what is keeping crews so content.Many Thanks GGA

[hardcase]

Hi, you are correct; its 2 weeks working, week contactable and a week off. At the moment Captains are being used on their contactables more than FO's. Someone said that there are a too many FO's at the moment, but maybe there are some promotions around the corner.

You can live as far away from your base as you want, its up to you to travel there at your own expense to position where they want you.

The reason crew are not moving on is people are afraid of moving onto a pax airline and being let go due to oil prices, recession, etc. Also ACL are very busy and have new routes coming up, also they are looking for 2 ATR French speaking pilots to fly the 737 on a 18month EAP contract. Everyone seems very happy at the moment.

Have you got a job or just thinking of applying.
:ok:

[greenergrassairlines]

Thanks very much hardcase. Also heard that some crews fly home for their 2 days off down route. Is this allowed ? Also do you have any idea of capt takehome pay in ireland incl all allowances.

Cheers:ok:

[hardcase]

yes, you can travel home on your middle weekend off, i do. Its best to let the company know tho, just in case they have plans to move the a/c for maintenence,etc...

as for the salary, depends on whether you get paid in euros or pounds and which contract you are on...

have you thinking of applying??

[greenergrassairlines]

Thanks again. Yes thinking of applying would be looking to be based in Ireland on a euro Salary. When you say differnet contracts what do you mean ?

[menikos]

What about french speakers with B737TR, any opportunities ?

Thanks :ok:

[corsair]

When I worked there, we had one Portugese Captain who flew in from Lisbon to Dublin or East Midlands for his duty period.

[hardcase]

only if you have 18months service with ACL, the position is a secondment to EAP from ACL

greenergrassairlines; You are either on a ACL contract or contracted to work for us from the company AIR

[greenergrassairlines]

I see , so is there much difference in the contracts. I taught AIR did all the recruitment for Air Contractors ?

[hardcase]

no, there are ATR pilots who work directly for ACL, usually they are based in the UK although some UK guys are AIR. The contract pilots, employed via AIR, are based elsewhere in Europe, ie France, Ireland, Holland, etc...

AIR contracted pilots are technically self employed, therefore have to sort out their own taxes, pension, etc...

[mmeteesside]

If the post on the Manchester thread is correct - then the GLA-MAN-CDG ATR72 will presumably route direct to CDG. Is there any chance this will be routed through NCL to replace the current aircraft (currently Be1900 with Farnair - soon to be Swiftair ATR42) therefore saving 1 a/c?

[hardcase]

FDX feeder will operate MAN-CDG-MAN from Sept 15th..using ATR72

Also feeder will operate MAN-STN-BHX-CDG-BHX-MAN from Sept 1st..again using ATR72

[FougaMagister]

Hardcase beat me to it! First I had to make sense of the revised MAN/BHX route schedule. What a cool job we have, eh? :ok:

Menikos - regarding EAP, there is still external recruitment for fluent French-speaking 737-rated applicants, but last I heard it was still for fixed-term 8 months contracts (CDD). Check this out: http://www.europeairpost.com/data/offre/personnel_navigant_technique.pdf

Bonne chance quand meme! :cool:

[hardcase]

hi FM, you busy these days :ok:

[mmeteesside]

Cheers Hardcase for the info! That second one looks like a strange route! Is that as well as the existing Birmingham one? Also what happens to Glasgow - are they left with only the shared Newcastle feeder?

[hardcase]

i think that it is slight adjustment to the existing BHX route; as for GLA i think it will be just be one aircraft via Newcastle.

as far as i know, ACL are pulling out of GLA, unless something changes, which regularily happens in this business

[liftman]

Hardcase do ypu have any italian base?

any chanche of employment without TR on Atr?

Any chanche of self sponsored course on Atr?

[hardcase]

an Italian base is possible i suppose, we do fly from Ancona, Pisa and Rome. You must have an ATR rating to join, time on type is helpful, ACL do not have any type rating courses for the ATR....

[Global Pilot]

"as far as i know, ACL are pulling out of GLA, unless something changes, which regularily happens in this business"

GLA-STN-DUB-GLA is still continuing for the forseeable future and line maint will be carrired out for Swiftair's 42 by ACL.

[420 HB]

ACL are a good company to work for. An open culture between management and crew reinforces a positive attitude towards work. Great bunch of guys and girls to fly with and market leading T&Cs. People are happy and thats why no one is leaving.:ok:

[Pagan_angel]

MAN-STN-BHX-CDG??? :confused: surely MAN-BHX-STN would be more fuel efficient?

[mmeteesside]

I assume its to take stuff from MAN for transatlantic from STN (now the MD11 doesn't stop in MAN) and then position back to BHX to do the round trip to CDG from there and then position back to MAN. :confused:

[hardcase]

it maybe more fuel efficent but it depends on timings of freight arrivals...into BHX and STN for other flights elsewhere

[Flying Beancounter]

Sounds like a very good company to work for. Any more tips on getting onboard. I do have an ATR 42/72 type rating (from Skyblue at Exeter) but no additional experience.
Please feel free to PM.
Many thanks

[hardcase]

check your pms

[hardcase]

It was a nice place to work until this week management started changing bases and giving a take it or leave it ultimatum to the European lads, some of the guys in Germany have been rightly stitched up!!!

:mad::mad::mad:

[Washed Out]

Was a good company to work for once upon a time, now think "Ryanair with turboprops", but with less pay.

[nightcall]

PPJN figures:
What you see on ppjn.com is only for european bases, before taxes, no LOL, no pension, no social security...

Variety in the routes:
This is a big issue. Since the crisis, everybody starts and finishes at their base hence there is no much variety in routes. Basically people fly the same route 99% of the time.

Hotels:
Once again, all has gone crap since the crisis. Expect 3 stars hotel at the airport (whereas in the good old times it was 4-5 star hotels downtown the cities).

Bases:
They close the base as soon as there is a change in the network. As a consequence, people are rebased anywhere else with one month notice. As mentioned above, that's a take it or leave it policy.

Roster:
Expect to be used 3 weeks a month and that's it.

Nice place to work?
Maintenance is good, people are always payed on time, the roster is still issued for 3 months (more or less), nice people to work with (OPS, pilots, etc). However, it's cargo from 7pm to 9am, working in old and extremely noisy turboprops, cold environment, no toilets on board, no crewfood, hotels are low quality, long time away from home, no variety in the routes (maybe 2 or 3 airfields), no security with your base, etc.
Before the crisis it was a great place to work and now it's an OK place to work, The majority will definitely leave the company as soon as the market picks up.
Farnair is now probably better than Air Contractors...

[hardcase]

Well said guys, couldn't agree more...management have destroyed the best kept secret in aviation

:mad:

[gutted]

The once good conditions have been on a downward slope for a few years now.
The re-basing process have resulted in costs transfer from the company to the crews and in some cases it meant a huge loss of net income for said crews. Again, this was done on a take it or leave it basis with no opportunity for the crews to protect themselves from those bully methods. Now re-basing crews at will have become a normal management tool.
The race to the bottom is also well engaged with a new ryanair style rule imposing the "under training" salary on the new fo's until they reach 500 hrs on type while the previous rule granted them "year 1" salary from the line check on. Swiftair has clearly set the standards. Watch this space. Probably more inventive shafting are to come...
The trust in the managament has vanished, but surely they don't give a damn as long as the job market is on their side... However they still expect crews to go the extra mile to achieve the customer performance goal... isn't that nice ....

On a more positive note, ops peeps are top notch.

[mmeteesside]

Anyone know which route ABR5TR/6TR (seems to be an ATR72) is?
Also is 7TW/8TW (ATR42) the Cologne-Katowice for UPS which Farnair used to have?

As far as I can tell the break down of the fleet is

42's
CDG-HAM-CGN-HAM-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-FCO-AOI-FCO-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-ORK-SNN-ORK-CDG (Fedex)
CGN-KTW-CGN (UPS)
+ 1 spare?

72's
CDG-MAN-STN-MAN-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-BHX-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-WAW-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-PRG-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-AMS-STN-AMS-CDG (Fedex)
CDG-BCN-CDG (Fedex) [alongside 752?]
+ 5TR/6TR
+ 2 in Sweden
+ 1 spare?

[hardcase]

5TR does CDG-FRA-STR-CDG, also ACL does not fly UPS routes on the ATR, and it's CDG-STR-KTW-CDG also for fedex...

[mmeteesside]

Thanks hardcase - it confused me with 7TW/8TW being the same callsign Farnair use on their CGN-KTW for UPS lol - I guess the spares will just sit in CDG for Fedex ready to cover any tech issues?

[hardcase]

Yeah any issues and they launch the hotspare to recover the flight...

ACL don't fly the CDG-BCN-CDG route, only if hotspare is used.

[mmeteesside]

Ah right just I saw a similar flight number last week, I guess that was them using the hotspare. That would presumably give 1 ATR42 and 2 ATR72's in CDG as spares? Or is there always 1 ATR on maintenance in Edinburgh?

[mmeteesside]

Anyone know if ACL are back on the GLA-NCL-CDG or is the ATR42 just covering maintenance on Swiftair E120?

[hardcase]

We are back on it permanently, well until Fedex change their minds again

[mmeteesside]

Thanks hardcase - things seem to change quite often!

[Flightmech]

We are hearing rumors of a 757 running through MAN and BHX, but probably not until 2012.

[hardcase]

we are hearing the same, especially MAN. I have heard BHX but rumours are that parking a 757 is an issue where we park our ATR...

[james solomon]

anyone confirm this from ABR is actually happening
ATR 72 -202 285 OK-XFA CSA Czech Airlines ferried 14jul11 PRG-EDI on delivery to Air Contractors?, + 303 OK-XFD ex F-WWLO

[hardcase]

CSA lease 5 ATR's from ACL but I thought they were 500's...

Also I did hear in PRG that CSA let 50 ATR pilots go and were getting rid of the aircraft...

[james solomon]

ATR 72 -202 285 OK-XFA CSA Czech Airlines ferried 14jul11 PRG-EDI on delivery to Air Contractors?, + 303 OK-XFD ex F-WWLO Is that gone to EDI for maintenance with ABR or for another reason or for ABR then leased out to CSA again or are they going into the ABR fleet then leased out to Aer Arann for the Aer Lingus Regional division

[wheelbarrow]

Simply gone for cabin refit and change of operator but nothing to do with ABR/ASL or REA.

[james solomon]

who is the new operator then

[PAR 737]

Helitt Lineas Aereas

[mmeteesside]

So with Belfast soon to be linked to the Fedex network with an ATR - am I right in assuming it will be ACL operating this? Possibly with the 757 taking over another feeder route and associated shuffles of aircraft?

[james solomon]

So with Belfast soon to be linked to the Fedex network with an ATR - am I right in assuming it will be ACL operating this? Possibly with the 757 taking over another feeder route and associated shuffles of aircraft?

what contracts have ABR won or lost. Im assuming ABR got the BFS route to be linked in with the FDX network. Im assuming a FDX feeder liveried ATR will operate it

[hardcase]

ACL did not get the BFS contract, Swiftair did and starts operating it in September.

[hotelmodemetar]

That's not very surprising: Belfast is a foggy destination and Swiftair's Emb120s and ATRs are ("unofficially" :oh:) CAT IIIc approved (by their Human Resources), moreover their P2F F/Os help the company to be more productive and much cheaper than anybody else in the whole galaxy :ok:

NOGO does not exists at Swiftair, expect of course a double engine failure before taxi :cool:

[mmeteesside]

Thanks hardcase for the update

[james solomon]

Interesting so what other contracts have ABR won and lost. They lost the BFS contract what else have they lost. Any contracts ABR have won that are new or have changed hands from another airline

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Hotelmodemeter
Perhaps not the best thought out comments give the recent Manx2 crash....

[hotelmodemetar]

Sad but true. I know what i am talking about, mate.
Those pilots working for rubbish companies like that are not the ones to blame.

[hardcase]

ACL didn't lose the BFS contract, it was a new Fedex route and they wanted an aircraft smaller than ATR42 due to loads, hence Swiftair on the EMB...

[gtf]

Is Air Contractor still flying through LGG for FedEx?

[nightcall]

No they don't.

[james solomon]

what are ABR going to do with SP-EEE of Eurolot they are aquiring. Noticed this in the Eurolot article in september issue of airliner world

[Prob40]

Hi,

Just seen on PPJN that ACL have just taken on 5 new ATR fo's

Can anyone shed any light on this? is this true? or is it that they intend to take more?

Been trying for a while to get a gig with this company but never had as much as a call despite sending B M. my updated C.V. every couple of months which is very frustrating! They would be ideal for me and I have a number of years flying the ATR 72 and 42. if anyone could let me know by PM or post I would be most grateful!

Thanks,

Prob40

[nightcall]

Prob40, keep on trying mate. The majority of ACL pilots are actively looking for another job. Crew moral is currently very low in general.

[Prob40]

Thanks for your reply, I hear that ACL have changed their tune and are now only taking on low hour SOs, this is a bitter blow for me as a 3000hr + ATR SFO, the roster alone is the most important thing for me as It would allow me an occasional life at home again which, to me is priceless.

this is an extremely worrying trend that has spread almost industry wide. the implications are massive and terrible for many of us.

I will keep trying to join ACL but don't have much hope if they just take low-hours.

[420 HB]

Prob40
If it is a home life you are looking for forget ACL at the moment, as most of the guys and girls are working MDP. Three weeks away each and every month and travel to your base at own cost ( base could be anywhere in Europe). However the salary is good, as is ops dept and the engineers on the ramp. Night call is correct though most crew looking to jump at earliest opportunity as T&Cs are being squeezed.

[hardcase]

420 HB is right, we are working flat out, some guys 4weeks in a row. The management say we are not short of crew but op's say we are short of numbers. If more than 2 pilots in a week go sick then they have to call someone who is on a week off or on leave to cover...it's getting worse.

We will never get back to where we were but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off. The paying Irish tax situation for European based crew is another bone of contention too...

This all started when our main customer put the squeeze on its feeder airlines of which we are the biggest in Europe.

[Prob40]

Thanks for your posts!

My current Airline is the same in that crew numbers are chronic, no pay increases, degraded T&Cs (not by much because we don't have any!)

But the thing is we have a lower starting point and the crappiest roster outside of India! if you get a free week every month or two your doing better than me!
and don't get me started on pay or my ATPCS will kick in. Even so I'd work for less just to get the roster.

[Red Revolutionary]

Prob40,

Truly sorry for you m8.
The main reason for the low houred intake is for ACL to be able to put them on the new "training" payscale. The lesser hours they have, the longer they'll stay on that training scale. This means extra savings for the company. In that pattern, ACL even found it worth it to partly fund one newbie's type rating.
Your 3000 hrs are your weakness at this moment in time.

420,

"salary is good" ???? :ugh:
Try a "normally" taxed FO salary. At best I'd say average.

"T&C are being squeezed".
That's more accurate. Yet, they keep on reminding us about reliability goals. Agreed this is about serving common interests. But then they should stop playing the "overcrewed" broken disc while everyone knows it's a lie and sees it as an insult to our intelligence. They tend to forget the degree of good will involved in these goals achievement. Maybe should we try and play by the rules for the sake of giving them a wake up call. Winter's coming ...

Hardcase,

"but hopefully just the 2weeks on, week contactable and week off without being pestered on our week off"

I'd suggest you wake up ... productivity improvement is their driving factor. Nothing balances it apart from their own assessment of what they can or cannot force feed us with. The only [kind of] force we [as crews] can rely on is the employment market supply and demand unless a proper and recognized pilots association is put together within the company. Can't see that happening.

But fairly enough, it's their company, they set the rules. Can't stand the heat ?.... :oh:
Sad to say but they're merely another reflection of the state of the industry.

[hardcase]

Ok, firstly your first statement is incorrect, the reason we hired low hours pilots is due to the fact they didn't have a notice period to give as they had to start the following week after the decision had been made to hire FO's. And secondly how dare you tell me to wake up when I spent 7-8 years trying keep our t&c's intact. Judging by your username I guess you are one of those who moans and shouts in the crew room except when management turn up...

we are all on the same side and don't you forget it!

[Red Revolutionary]

"and don't you forget it!"

SIR! NO SIR !!!
I WON'T FORGET IT ...

:p:p:p

All right all right Hardcase. Chill out m8
We're deffo on the same side here.
Maybe a smilie would have helped showing the "tongue in cheek" nature of my "wake up" suggestion. My mistake. Nothing should be taken too personally here really. I note that you did not object on the main purpose of my comment though... productivity etc...
You certainly noticed this is an anonymous forum. Then how on earth do you expect people to know that you're the hero who spent 7-8 years fighting for our T&C's ?... please...
Or is this about trying to guess who's who or who did what or about judging comments on the base of usernames ? Wouldn't that be somewhat childish ? Surely you know better.
Anyway, my apologies for the offence. It was deffo not intended.:ok:

However, while I stand corrected on the "OFFICIAL" reasons behind the low timers recruitment thing, only time will tell whether my take on the matter is wrong or right me thinks. I am hearing that should that young lad fresh out of school comply with ACL standards easily enough, the company is considering using his type of profile as a main hiring source. Bear in mind that the new "training" payscale is meant to be used. If you insist not to see a pattern developing here, then lets just agree to disagree. No big deal. I'm still on your side. I promise. I just have a different view on this one. I'm sure you won't mind.
:p:p:p