T-PEDs: Cellular telephones in the helicopter

[TheVelvetGlove]

I am an EMS pilot in the USA doing research on the use of cellular telephones in the helicopter. They are classified as "T-PED's".

T-PEDS are Transmitting Personal Electronic Devices.

In the USA, it is a violation of FCC regulations to have a cell phone in the helicopter that is powered "on" once the skids leave the ground.

It is also a violation of FAA regulations; even if cell phones are listed on approved PED list in the helicopter's RFM, cell phones may only be used while on the ground. They are to be powered completely "off" at all other times.

Even with the advent of digital cell phones, pilots are still reporting interference with avionics and other anomalies, including, not limited to:

A complete blackout of EFIS displays, autopilots uncoupling, loss of glide scope, loss of localizer, loss of nav radios, loss of radio altimeters...the list is endless. The Aviation Safety Reporting System continues to receive numerous reports every year from pilots who have had to go missed as the result of these devices being utilized in flight.

With the advent of texting on cellular telephones, I have witnessed an epidemic of texting by medical crews during cruise, as well as during critical phases of flight.

My question for EMS pilots is this:

What do you think about the use of cellular telephones in your helicopter?

Thanks for all replies.

[malabo]

Always have been used, always will. Whatever works, and regulations (if in fact they clearly prohibit cellphones) be damned. FCC? I don't think they even issue radio licenses to pilots anymore.

Emirates allows cel phone use in flight now. And judging from the constant ringing I hear from different passengers around me, compliance with turning them off is 50% at best on other airlines.

I know they've been proven to be the cause of immolation at self-serve pumps, blown floats, caused overspeeds etc. Gus Grissom probably used the cel-phone excuse for the hatch blowing off his space capsule too.

Everyone here uses them, some are even wired through the intercom. Nobody is falling out of the sky. And we're all flying FADEC and fancy avionics now. No problem.

Five years of EMS, the paramedics were on them constantly. Worked better than FM or VHF AM.

[organ donor]

One Company I worked for had them fitted into the intercom system, just so the bosses could call and check up on us. That was a real pain, phone ringing every 5 minutes. I would just switch the phone off and claim poor signal. Did no harm to the helicopter though.

[toolguy]

Had a cell phone in the baggage bay set of the smoke detector. When the phone rang the detector went off. EMI Hardened avionics shoud not be affected, but comm and nav can be especially when the phone is transiting cell towers or looses service. It will blast out a 'find me' pulse. If you are trying to hear a radio call in crowded airspace, you may get stepped on by the pulse.

[Phoinix]

We use phones all the time. When a country is using 3 different comm. systems for police work, it's not hard to get into an area of no other coverage but the mobile phone. No problems regarding avionics or any other system though - flying AB206/212/412/A109/EC135.

[2 per rev]

If you have a look at the FAA AS350B3 TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheet)Note 9 for FADEC equipped Eurocopter helicopters you will see the EMI tests are required for installed (modified)units. Thats fine, but why not for hand held units?I think a hand held telephone is worse as the antenna is in your hand close to equipment where as an installed unit has the antenna hard wired and therefore away up on the helicopter roof.NOTE 9. The model AS350B3 and EC 130B4 rotorcraft employs electronic engine controls,commonly named Full authority Digital Engine Controls (FADEC) and is recognized tobe more susceptible to Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) than rotorcraft that have onlymanual (non-electronic) controls. (EMI may be the result of radiated or conductedinterference.) For this reason modifications that add or change systems that have thepotential for EMI, must either be qualified to a standard acceptable to the FAA or testedat the time of installation for interference to the FADEC. This type of testing mustemploy the particular FADEC’s diagnostic techniques and external diagnostictechniques. The test procedure must be FAA approved.

[topendtorque]

Sounds like a good case for the Myth Busters?

[Gomer Pylot]

People use them all the time, and I carry a couple of them in my pockets, one of my own and one company phone. I've never seen a problem with avionics, but I have heard of S76 baggage smoke detectors being set off by phones in the baggage compartment. We used to make a point of telling pax to turn off cell phones, especially in baggage. In the cabin, it's not really a problem IME. Older models with analog gauges won't be affected, but a model with a glass cockpit might be. I agree that EMI tests should be done for all sorts of handheld electronics. I've seen computers with wifi and bluetooth connections used in many helicopters, but I've never seen a problem. That doesn't prove there never could be one, though.

[Grenville Fortescue]

Would anyone care to provide an update regarding mobile phone communications to and from helicopters in the UK at this time.

Are calls available to pilots and passengers alike and, if so, what hardware is required to be installed on the helicopter to facilitate this?

[toptobottom]

I've used my Bose A20s with Bluetooth connection to my mobile phone for ages without any impact on any other electrical component on the aircraft. I remember a Top Gear episode where the impact of mobile signals was measured against various sensitive electronic devices, including explosive detonators; no adverse effects were noted..

[n5296s]

It is also a violation of FAA regulations;
Where do you get this from? FAR 91.23 says, in summary, that for an aircraft not operating under an air carrier certificate, it's up to the PIC or operator. For air carrier operation, it's up to the operator. In other words if you fly in my heli and I say it's OK to use your cellphone/iPad/whatever, then it's OK, at least as far as the FAA is concerned. Just as well since these days an iPad is practically standard equipment.

The FCC is a different matter, but at helicopter altitudes and speeds it won't have any adverse effect on the network, which is what the FCC is worried about. Hence, you're also unlikely to get caught. And in fact where you COULD have an adverse effect on the network (i.e. up high and going fast) the phone/whatever won't make the connection anyway.

[Variable Load]

It is also a violation of FAA regulations;


Post was in 2008 - might explain the statement?

[n5296s]

Didn't spot that. But 91.23 hasn't changed in quite a while, iirc not since I did my PPL in 2001.

[Grenville Fortescue]

Can anyone spell it out in simple terms - what do I need to do to communicate via mobile as a pax on board a helicopter in the UK or even as a pilot?

Must I get a Bose A20 headset (like toptobottom)? Does this plug straight into the mobile?

What is reception like in a helicopter - not signal strength but against the background noise of the helicopter and how well can people hear you when you speak, again with the background noise in mind?

[Um... lifting...]

The Bose A20 is an pilot's aviation headset.

It has Active Noise Reduction.

It also has Bluetooth for the mobile phone or what-have-you device.

It works pretty well, but your listener will probably be able to tell you're in an aircraft though you'll be quite easily understood. You can hear the listener very well indeed.

The problem with the thing is that if you're plugged into the aircraft intercom system while on the Bluetooth, everyone else on the intercom can hear YOUR end of the conversation only, and it can play havoc with CRM in the aircraft.

[mickjoebill]

For reference, the power of a tv microwave transmitter is immense (10 to 100 watts) compared to a 3g cellphone handset (0.25watts)
Source; ACMA - Electromagnetic energy and 3G mobile phones fact sheet (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD..PC/pc=PC_1746)

If I recall correctly the FAA don't mind microwave antennas on board helicopters as long as they are a certain distance from the FADEC computer.



Mickjoebill

[toptobottom]

Um.. Lifting...

everyone else on the intercom can hear YOUR end of the conversation only

I don't think that's true; nobody can hear any part of my conversation when I'm talking on my mobile via Bluetooth on the A20 and I've never had anyone comment on background noise. Once in conversation, the intercom is disabled on the headset in question until the call is terminated. If you wish to speak to ATC, just press TX and this over-rides the telephone conversation.

The quality is excellent; I've spoken to pilots in flight from a land line and not realised they're flying! :confused:

[EN48]

Have use a PS Engineering PMA 8000BT Blutooth enabled audio panel in a helicopter for several years with a cell phone (but only in an emergency, of course). Excellent sound quality and allows pairing of more than one device; also much flexibility as to who can hear and talk on a phone call. Pretty much flawless in my experience.There may be one issue, however. This audio panel has automatic squelch adjustment which may not work well if one flies with the doors off due to wind noise. Havent tried this so cant comment.

[Um... lifting...]

I don't think that's true;

You may be right, my recollection could be faulty. Colleague used one in the cockpit for contacting handling agents and the like. But he was oblivious to the rest of the crew while a call was going on, so one needs to be careful.

[vaqueroaero]

The Lightspeed Zulu is also a very good headset with Bluetooth, and cheaper than the Bose. I have used it to make and receive calls, but if there is a radio transmission it cuts out the phone call, which can make for a rather disjointed call. If I remember correctly passengers can hear you talking, but can't hear the other person.
To be honest most of the time it's a feature I don't use.