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Captain Stable
15th Aug 2008, 08:53
Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1960 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up mates.
2008 - Police are called. Armed Response Unit arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. Mobiles with video of fight confiscated as evidence. They are charged with assault, ASBOs are taken out and both are suspended even though Johnny started it. Diversionary conferences and parent meetings conducted. Video shown on 6 internet sites.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't sit still in class, disrupts other students.

1960 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given 6 of the best. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2008 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Counselled to death. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra funding because Jeffrey has a disability. Drops out of school.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him the slipper.

1960 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.
2008 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. Psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mum has an affair with the psychologist. Psychologist gets a promotion.

Scenario: Mark, a college student, brings cigarettes to school.

1960 - Mark shares a smoke with the school principal out on the smoking area.
2008 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug possession. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Mohammed fails high school English.

1960 - Mohammed retakes his exam, passes and goes to college.
2008 - Mohammed's cause is taken up by local human rights group. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that making English a requirement for graduation is racist. Civil Liberties Association files class action lawsuit against state school system and his English teacher. English is banned from core curriculum. Mohammed is given his qualification anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers, puts them in a model plane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.

1960 - Ants die.
2008 - MI5 and police are called and Johnny is charged with perpetrating acts of terrorism. Teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls during break and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.

1960 - Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.
2008 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in prison. Johnny undergoes five years of therapy. Becomes gay.

Fact or fiction?

Parapunter
15th Aug 2008, 09:13
Fiction. And nasty and done here before.

Impress to inflate
15th Aug 2008, 09:19
How very true !!!!!!

BlueWolf
15th Aug 2008, 09:23
Nasty and done here before, but close to the truth nonetheless.

13thDuke
15th Aug 2008, 09:40
Ah the Daily Mail - alive, well and frothing at the mouth.

Solid Rust Twotter
15th Aug 2008, 12:06
Ah the Daily Mail - alive, well and frothing at the mouth.

Got a link?

13thDuke
15th Aug 2008, 12:39
Got a link?

There's this:

English is a second language for 1 in 8 pupils in England | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1045097/English-second-language-1-8-pupils-England.html)

I'm sure there's more, but I feel dirty now.

Nick Riviera
15th Aug 2008, 14:16
Of course there's no link. Far better to reveal one's own prejudices than have a good laugh at something that contains a kernel of truth.

Evening Star
15th Aug 2008, 15:08
Got a link?

Mail online (http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2008/01/whatever-happen.html), 15 January 2008, almost exact version about quarter way down page.:hmm:

13thDuke
15th Aug 2008, 15:24
As it happens I meant Daily Mail as a state of mind but I'm not surprised.

As my missus works in childcare, I'm well aware of the more stupid rules bought in by the Guardianistas in 'Elf & Safety (not being allowed to put plasters on a childs' skinned knee for example) - having said that I also remember my PE teacher at school being what we would now call a nonce, and nothing being done about it.

For those who think corporal punishment 'did them no harm' - well it turned you into the kind of **** who thinks hitting children is a good idea, didn't it? :}

Effluent Man
15th Aug 2008, 15:42
A (slightly) naughty story from 1960.My class of eight year olds had a very pleasant lady teacher called Mrs.Kerrison,I guess this is safe to tell because she was fiftyish then.She was a big,tall jolly hockey sticks sort of woman with a hubby who wore thick specs and they both wore long khaki shorts in the summer.
They went on holiday to somewhere in North Africa and had a trip into the Sahara.She came back and told the whole class that the Bedouin men were very skilful with ropes and one night demonstrated their prowess by tying her up.I remember at the time thinking that it was odd.Wonder what the Daily Mail would make of it in 2008.

charliegolf
15th Aug 2008, 16:17
State schools are much better institutions now than in the sixties, save for the delusion that, if we remediate all ills (and we are asked to), everyone will attain the same levels.

To make that so, we try to have all our kids stay on in the sixth form, where one kid gets 'A's in Media, Tourism and Sociology, and is led to believe that he or she has attained the same as the kid with A's' in Maths, Physics and French.

I'm afraid he or she has not.:=


CG

colsie
15th Aug 2008, 16:27
I see a deep irony here. The ones who have made the differences who complement and were taught in the 1960īs, they themselves know it never killed them, and yet they introduced rules which prevent everything in a teachers power. I canīt really say anything however as I am all for human rights to the extreme.

Solid Rust Twotter
15th Aug 2008, 19:26
Mail online, 15 January 2008, almost exact version about quarter way down page.


Thanks for that. Appears to be some kind of comments forum so doubtful the actual jocular post was ever really published in said paper. No doubt found in more than one place on the web, possibly even addressed by Snopes at some point.

corsair
15th Aug 2008, 19:31
As one of those who experienced school 'discipline' in the sixities. I for one wouldn't wish it on my child. I remember being regularly humiliated in class by one Mrs Brown, who took against for some reason or other. I was five. My Mother an otherwise calm and reasonable woman was forced to confront her. I wasn't slapped much mainly because I was one of those quiet and pliable kids. But when I was hit, it was always for some failing in learning rather than bad behavour. Does anyone think that's acceptable? Mr Muldoon one of my teachers had several of those classic canes. He had a temper too and I watched him break several over the hands of my classmates. The look of fear on their faces is memorable. I suffered once or twice too but by then I was well and truly tamed and fearful of authority figures.

I was lucky though, kids who attended the infamous 'Christian Brothers' schools would tell tales of massive straps and show us the bruises they inflicted. The perverts were well known too but ignored by the powers that be. It was no secret among the kids.

I can't say it didn't do me any harm, because I believe it did.

So what we have in modern times is the opposite, not least because parents were determined that what they went through would never be suffered by their kids. They weren't the good old days. They were sh** and produced the final generation for whom casual violence was normal and even institutionalised.

Coming home from school once aged about 12. I witnessed a 'fight'. As soon as the victim went down he was pounced on and kicked on the ground by his opponent's friends. I remember thinking mildly how that was a bit unfair and walked on casually. Imagine that I was so de-sensitised to violence that it barely affected me emotionally. It was like low level warfare.

Evening Star
16th Aug 2008, 01:16
As it happens I meant Daily Mail as a state of mind but I'm not surprised.

As my missus works in childcare, I'm well aware of the more stupid rules bought in by the Guardianistas in 'Elf & Safety (not being allowed to put plasters on a childs' skinned knee for example) - having said that I also remember my PE teacher at school being what we would now call a nonce, and nothing being done about it.

Fully understand with DM state of mind comment. Just somebody pulled me up for a similar DM state of mind comment a few weeks ago so decided it was worth looking for the evidence.

As for the stupid rules, we have similar 'grown up' nonsense at the Ivory Tower. However, for us the reason is always something free market. So, students are now customers and, of course, the customer is always right. Think I will try dicing with death and spout that in the Cabin Crew forum. Or, 'where there is a blame there is a claim' means that so many lecturers will not touch study visits that this year we are discontinuing a third of visits. (And those lecturers that do will no longer have a sociable drink with students in case later something goes wrong and they are held responsible for 'encouraging them'. Arse about tit thinking ... learnt more over a pint with my tutors when I was a student than in any lecture.) Oh well, for this confirmed Guardianista (love it:ok:) it tells me all I need to know about free market and education.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 01:49
Yes I got that one in the email a couple of weeks ago and my response was:

Scenario: Peggy says she wants to be a vet.

1960 - Teacher says "Don't be Stupid. Girls can't become vets, they become housewives".
2008 - Peggy goes to vet school, opens her own practice providing vetinary services to a grateful public, employs several people and contributes to the tax base of her comunity.


Scenario: Johnny is told to write an article on India.

1960 - Johnny goes to the library and finds two books about India that are both horribly out of date and contain information that is of little use to him.
2008 - Johnny uses the internet to do his research and has access to thousands of articles, pictures and film clips that give him a basic understanding of the country and how it has developed AFTER it was part of the empire. He is also able to talk to actual Indians in a chat room and has several questions answered in a forum.


Scenario: Johnny makes friends with his neighbour Mbopo and they discover they go to the same school and are both interested in flying model aircraft.

1960 - Johnny doesn't have a neighbour called Mbopo and if he did, he certainly wouldn't go to the same school and if he did, he would be unlikely to associate with him.
2008 - Johnny and Mbopo share their hobby and both learn something about aircraft and getting on with other people.

Scenario: Johnny and Mary become interested in each other.

1960 - They have sex. Mary gets pregnant. Their lives are changed beyond all recognition.
2008 - They have sex. Fortunately one one them used an available method of contraception, so they were able to learn about each other's bodies for an entire glorious summer before realising thet they weren't really meant to share their entire lives.

Scenario: Johnny is hungry.

1960 - Johnny's mother looks in her ration book and finds there are no more coupons for that week.
2008 - Johnny's mother makes him a sensible meal from items already in the refrigerator.


etc, etc

tinpis
16th Aug 2008, 02:30
Reckon the 60's was crook? Yer shoulda been there in the 50's :uhoh:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 02:37
Scenario: Johnny wants to listen to some popular music.

1950 - It's all shite.
2008 - Ok it's still mostly shite, but it's not as bad as the fifties :yuk:

tinpis
16th Aug 2008, 02:56
Au contraire methunks is has turned to shite since

http://www.dafland.com/nts_2000/new/images/A%20Great%20Day%20In%20Harlem.jpg

spekesoftly
16th Aug 2008, 09:29
Scenario: Johnny is hungry.

1960 - Johnny's mother looks in her ration book and finds there are no more coupons for that week.Johnny's mother didn't know that food rationing finished in 1954?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 14:11
Dahn sarf maybe, but poor old Johnny lived Ooop North.

Rightbase
16th Aug 2008, 16:37
Aaaa..... writes
2008 - Johnny uses the internet to do his research and has access to thousands of articles, pictures and film clips that give him a basic understanding of the country and how it has developed AFTER it was part of the empire. He is also able to talk to actual Indians in a chat room and has several questions answered in a forum.

Bolleaux.

Johnny googles India with a couple of buzz words fed by the teacher and prints several pages that have nice pictures on them. Some of the pictures are too wide for the paper so the right hand portion of some pictures are printed on extra pages that he leaves behind in the computer room. This is after he has tried three times to print them, but other pupils' prints kept coming out. He leaves with four out of six pages of heavily coloured prints costing the school the princely sum of six 1960 shillings - which in those days would almost buy a gallon of petrol. None of the pages has his name on them. A short time after he has left, the other two copies come out, to be dispersed by other pupils sorting through the printer output for their prints. Almost a pounds worth of ink and other consumables for no absorbed knowledge. Repeat for many pupils in most classes?

An even better example is the Geography department's Power Point project on the rain forest. The lack of absorbed understanding is very obvious when the full page fully coloured slides are printed....

Kids are kids and always will be. If you look at education then and now, the kids are the same age now as they were then. They make the same sort of mistakes in the new environment that they did in the old one - but the big difference is the kids get more and more empowering technology, whilst teachers get more and more restrictions from the You-man rights, the Elfin safety, and the oxy-moronic 'Politically correct' mob.

Somebody isn't seeing the big picture.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 16:48
Ok, My mistake. Johnny was obviously better off being given buzzwords by his 1960's teacher and looking them up in the 1952 version of The Encyclopedia Britannica then writing down verbatim what he saw there.I doubt that any school district would allow the type of waste you describe, but what do I know? I have no children.I do however agree with you that children - and teachers are the same today as what they were forty years ago, and four hundred and in fact four thousand.Sure the world we all live in changes, but for the better as well as for the worse. It's just different that's all.

frostbite
16th Aug 2008, 18:00
Having worked for several years in a local (Secondary) school, I regret to confirm that Rightbase is very adjacent to spot on.

Rightbase
16th Aug 2008, 20:26
Sure the world we all live in changes, but for the better as well as for the worse. It's just different that's all.

Teaching is probably the second oldest profession in terms of the unchanging mission statement. After 4000 years it should be pretty stable.

Relentless use of two or more different information channels (sight hearing, speech, touch) forcing the brain to interpret and convert the information helps the learning process. Reading a question, finding and recognising the relevant answer is part of learning. The Encyclopedia was a challenging exercise for pupils who had progressed beyond the 'Read this and answer the questions at the end' stage of learning.

In fact, this very relentless 'analyse the question - search the resource - recognise the relevant answer' recipe has been spectacularly successful in enabling search engines to be able to find whatever you want from the greatest store of knowledge the world has ever had - thereby totally removing the need for pupils to exercise their human brains. They don't even need to read what they find!

Sadly, politicians cannot get their heads around the concept of a 4000 year old stable system being efficient and effective. If it isn't continually being stirred up and messed about with, if there isn't a constant stream of 'initiatives', it is a wasted career-building opportunity for some politician or other. A myriad of pretexts - changing technology, new political dogmas, spaceflight, GM crops, decimalisation of money, global warming, new drugs for old behavioural problems and our insistance on above average targets for everything are all used to justify spurious new, old and often simply renamed educational initiatives.

It helps to distract us all from the well documented cycle of development, growth, stability, corruption and eventual decline of successive civilisations.

By Jove, I needed that!