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blue monday
13th Aug 2008, 13:13
Friend of mine has mentioned his Brother in law has his own haulage business, he was involved in a fuel protest last month, he has had a letter off the Ministry stating that if any other of his wagons are involved in another fuel protest they will revoke his opperators license!!!

what the hell happened to a free country!!!!

also he is having the book thrown at him by the tacho laws, evidently there is a new law that you have to have one 1/4 hour break and then after 4.5 hours 1/2 hour break, previuosly it was 3 1/4 hour breaks his drivers had still been using the old law!! when he asked why he was not sent anything telling him about the new law they told him it was on the internet!! fat lot of good that is if you have no internet!!!

Also one of his guys is getting done as he set off 14minutes and 40 seconds instead of 15minutes!!!

What the f*** is this country coming too!!

Effluent Man
13th Aug 2008, 14:57
Fuel protests are pointless because you are protesting against a free market,albeit one open to manipulation by gamblers.The current level of fuel price has not got anything to do with tax which is the only bit a government can do anything about.

Overdrive
13th Aug 2008, 18:05
The current level of fuel price has not got anything to do with tax which is the only bit a government can do anything about.



Huh? Every time the oil/supplying companies raise prices, the tax rises automatically at the prevailing rate, which adds up to four times the actual commodity rise to the price paid at the pumps.

The tax is proportional, not a fixed amount.

GROUNDHOG
13th Aug 2008, 18:47
Hence Mr Cameron's proposal that when fuel prices go up they would lower tax and vice versa. The convoy I caught up with were protesting against TAX on fuel not the cost of the raw material or am I missing something???

To discriminate against envoking the right to free and peaceful protest is digusting, perhaps they should all arrange the tachographs to run out at exactly the same time outside Downing Street and say sorry not allowed to drive any further its against the law.

Dr Jekyll
13th Aug 2008, 20:39
The fuel duty is a fixed, though regularly increased, amount. The VAT is proportional and levied on the duty as well as the product.

The current level of fuel price has not got anything to do with tax which is the only bit a government can do anything about.

Most of the price of fuel is tax.

BenThere
13th Aug 2008, 21:22
In fact, tax in the UK on fuel is a huge money maker. The government should want you to drive (and smoke) as much as you possibly can.

That's what makes it possible to import people who want to kill you and put them on the dole. Isn't that what you consistently vote for? If you don't like it, why do you continue to vote for it?

pba_target
14th Aug 2008, 09:35
Wonder if you could take the goverment to court for blackmail (or whatever it is when you threaten someone with a consequence if they don't do what you say?) as the right to strike and protest is surely written in law somewhere>?

Burnt Fishtrousers
14th Aug 2008, 13:00
BEN THERE

Couldnt have put it better myself

BF

fireflybob
14th Aug 2008, 13:22
You get the impression that HM Government (and I am not being party political here - I believe it's across the board of all mainstream parties) are hell bent on us not engaging in any form of protest. We cannot even protest outside Parliament (for the perceived terrorist threat) now! I suspect that these internal and secret policies the government have were drawn up in the aftermath of the Heath government being indirectly brought down my civil protest. (That said I believe Thatcher was quite right to take a stand on that particular issue)

Compare this to the situation in France where robust protests seem to be part of Gallic pride!

The level of taxation on fuel is, I believe, quite immoral. If HM Government are unable to provide comprehensive, reliable and cheap public transport then how are we to travel to or from our places of work? Why should travel by car be made so expensive?

I really feel that we now need a (peaceful) revolution but the problem is that most people go through life without ever having an orginal thought.

ShyTorque
14th Aug 2008, 14:59
[QUOTE] If HM Government are unable to provide comprehensive, reliable and cheap public transport then how are we to travel to or from our places of work? Why should travel by car be made so expensive?
[QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. This government in particular try to make us feel guilty about using a car, as if we have another option. They then apparently feel justified in applying what can only be described in effect as a huge luxury tax on an essential daily item, to finance their ever more expensive ineptities and governmental staff perks. :mad:

airship
14th Aug 2008, 15:20
But you forget: modern UK government doesn't actually manage anything anymore itself. It relies on public-private partnerships (whatever these are really). And when the private partners get into difficulties (surprise, surprise, how can you blame them?), the government steps in to rescue them with taxpayers' funds...?!

The knighted-civil servants in HM Government don't need any lessons from Russians, the Italian Mafia or anyone else in how best to manage their affairs...?! :rolleyes:

v6g
14th Aug 2008, 15:46
The level of taxation on fuel is, I believe, quite immoral.

- and since when was there a moral guidance for taxation policy. That myth is a commonly held belief - the primary concern in all taxation policy is the ease of collection.

Parapunter
14th Aug 2008, 15:57
Blue Monday,

Operators licences for Large goods & Passenger vehicles are overseen by Traffic commissioners of which there are about seven I think in the UK. They are very powerful bodies & can revoke licences & disqualify directors but only on strict grounds, amongst which you won't find any reference to lawful protest.

Also, the tachograph regulations are clear that drivers must take a 45 minute break in any 4.5 hour duty period, and this can be taken as 3 15 minute breaks as required, provided the overall rest period is observed.

If mates B.I.L. has had a letter threatening disqualification, then a pound to a penny it's off the coppers or VOSA trying it on as the Governements lackey rather than the T.C. who has the last say.

VnV2178B
14th Aug 2008, 16:11
Putting aside the futility or otherwise of fuel duty protests, I see the problem here as the threat of action to curtail the freedom of the individual.

My first line of attack would be to copy all the relevant letters and write to my MP demanding he asks questions of the minister responsible. It may achieve little but it would be interesting to see any response.

Alternatively, if there is a trade body (there must be) with a website and forums investigate the possibilty of others receiving similar threats and then take concerted action with a barrage of letters.

I hope the original poster's friend's BIL has done something rather than moan over a pint about this.

VnV...

larssnowpharter
14th Aug 2008, 16:46
what the hell happened to a free country!!!!

False supposition.

Cheers,

Lars

Overdrive
14th Aug 2008, 17:46
Another 2p per litre drop in unleaded yesterday in this area; it is now 1.10 at lowest.

Does anyone know of a website that has and does track average pump prices against the crude barrel price, on the one graph or display? I'm trying to assess the remaining "con" factor in the reluctance to lower prices in line with the reducing barrel cost.

Alloa Akbar
14th Aug 2008, 23:07
Far be it from me to state the bleedin' obvious, but we have a prime minister who was not democratically elected.. so what makes you think he's going to let you protest against 'owt else??

Democracy..? Puh-leeze.:ugh:

Avitor
14th Aug 2008, 23:22
Short of armed rebellion (not feasible) we can do nothing, except vote.

Get the theiving swine out!

ShyTorque
14th Aug 2008, 23:24
Well if you don't like it you could always leave the country, AA, old chap ...... Oh sorry, so you already did ;)

Sciolistes
15th Aug 2008, 01:55
what the hell happened to a free country!!!!
Yes, it is an entirely false supposition. The people of the south east asian communist socialist republic that I now live in has more freedom at the micro level and arguably greater powers of speech and protest as more than one demonstration here has recently changed government policy or caused a significant relaxation in implementation. That's not to say there isn't a line here that the government would rather its people didn't cross. But I think it is very telling non the less.

blue monday
15th Aug 2008, 07:31
Blue Monday,

Operators licences for Large goods & Passenger vehicles are overseen by Traffic commissioners of which there are about seven I think in the UK. They are very powerful bodies & can revoke licences & disqualify directors but only on strict grounds, amongst which you won't find any reference to lawful protest.

If mates B.I.L. has had a letter threatening disqualification, then a pound to a penny it's off the coppers or VOSA trying it on as the Governements lackey rather than the T.C. who has the last say.

Putting aside the futility or otherwise of fuel duty protests, I see the problem here as the threat of action to curtail the freedom of the individual.

My first line of attack would be to copy all the relevant letters and write to my MP demanding he asks questions of the minister responsible. It may achieve little but it would be interesting to see any response.

Alternatively, if there is a trade body (there must be) with a website and forums investigate the possibilty of others receiving similar threats and then take concerted action with a barrage of letters.

I hope the original poster's friend's BIL has done something rather than moan over a pint about this.

VnV...

He has thought about that but at the end of the day he has his family to look out for and his employees so rather than risk having various agencies going over his operation with a fine tooth combe he is just going to tow the line - too much too loose as even in this free countryt of ours the government will find ways and means if they do so desire.

CH07
15th Aug 2008, 12:40
New Labour really are past their sell by date. I wish they would just p1$$ off and rot quietly (not much chance!) without inflicting any more damage on this poor old (knackered) country. For the past few years they seem to have taken great satisfaction in finacially shafting us with unrelenting fervency. Not a week seems to go by without the govt announcing yet another scheme to part us with our hard earned of interfere just a little more with our lives.
I'm ashamed to say i voted for this shower of s!"t in 97' and 01' but i doubt i'll vote for a socialist govt again. Look ok on paper but they are always ruined by daftness.

Looking on the bright side - when the Tories come to power i'm sure they'll give us nothing to moan about and we'll all live happily ever after! :suspect: :E

Cheers CH