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tezzer
10th Aug 2008, 15:36
When I was a lad, flying for the masses for holidays was quite a new event. When we went, once a year, usually to the new destination of Palma, people dressed for the occasion, dad in his flanels & blazer, mum in a nice new outfit, and people behaved correctly.

I fly weekly these days for work, and after this last trip's outbound leg felt it worth an oberservation or two.

Checking in at Humberside for a flight to Amsterdam, the check-in area was full of football / rugby shirts, women who loked like they'd just come in from doing the gardening, or the bin round, kids screaming around the place without a thought for the people they were climbing over or the seats they were jumping on, in a word, disgraceful.

Despite it being an early flight the bar airside was overflowing with people getting "tanked up" for the 2 hour flight.

Never mind, onto my KLM flight, for some peace and tranquility, in the company of some regular travellers. A crew were obviously re-positioning from HUY to AMS as the cabin crew sat in row 1, a captain in row 2, directly opposite me. Safety brief went on as said captian played with his i-phone, sending & receiving text messages throughout, despite the fact we were all closed up for the off. Whenever one of the DUTY crew walked past, he hid it behind his leg, very schoolboy like, only to pull it out and carry on playing when they had gone past. He therefore KNEW he was in the wrong, and didn't want to get caught.

Only once we had taxied out, and done the length of the runway backtrackig to the correct end did he put away his iphone. Naughty.

So, how can we criticise the chav masses for behaving badly, if the proffesional's flying them flout the rules ?

The country is in decline, bring back flanels & Blazers I say !

MidmarMile
10th Aug 2008, 16:52
Tezzer, you are more than right.

It seems that "middle" class Britain has gone to the dogs!!! Instead of them controlling their liquor there liquor seems to be controlling them!

DISCIPLINE is what is needed! I say we should bring back the cat o'nine tales, the rack, and maybe even public executions (definitely private ones). This should bring these dreggs back into order.

Whatever we do we must not send the convicts off to a far off land as they will probably make a better success that those that are left in old blighty.

Just remember: "Spare the rod and spoil the child!" or: "Remove discipline and respect from society and all else will decay!"

Avman
10th Aug 2008, 18:18
Bring back the cane/slipper and a good clip around the ear. As for the kids.....

nivsy
10th Aug 2008, 19:38
Two hours to Amsterdam? (mmm maybe a Fk 50 going backwards) and weighed to capacity with drunks and naughty positioning air crew ...mind you..possible..:eek:

On reflection maybe its a fair comment why are the bars open so early?

tezzer
10th Aug 2008, 20:44
No, not my 40 minutes to AMS,followed by 10.30 to Mexico cityit was their 2 hours to the costa del booze !

manintheback
10th Aug 2008, 22:15
3 years of first flight out every Monday morning LHR to Linate. White wine with breakfast was the staple for many a well dressed Italian.

radeng
11th Aug 2008, 10:35
The Aarhus - Copenhagen early morning flights always saw people drinking Gamel Dansk.

I can't say that I dress up for flying - white shirt, no tie, and trousers, not jeans. Much the same as for going to work, actually. And a Buck's Fizz or champagne or even the French cafe cognac is fine - just don't take too many. After all, the Victorian 'man about town' would apparently often have a pint tankard of champagne for breakfast. There's decadence for you. Many hotels on the continent serve some sort of sparkling wine for breakfast.

candoo
11th Aug 2008, 11:09
Sparkling wine with brekkie absolutely fine.

Am of the ilk that when on holiday be on holiday if that means a beer at 6 a.m. in Luton departures then so be it, it makes me feel good.

As for the stag/hen buggers the industry encouraged it so they pay the penalty.

Take a step back and enjoy life, it is what it is for.

Conan The Barber
11th Aug 2008, 12:30
So, how can we criticise the chav masses for behaving badly, if the proffesional's flying them flout the rules ?

Proffesional's do not fly aeroplanes, professionals do.

Standards indeed.

tezzer
11th Aug 2008, 14:14
Suggest you get of your high horse Conan, seens you are just the aggressive type who c:mad:ks up these forums, designed not for smart arse coments but for the exchange of information, with the odd slight spelling mistake allowed if the poster is suffering terminal jetlag, and typing it at 2 in the morning.

Knob

radeng
11th Aug 2008, 14:17
Is bad spelling really bad spelling, or actually bad typing? Followed by missing errors on reading the input? I suspect mostly the latter. Interestingly, I find it easier to proof read paper than a computer screen.

Curious Pax
11th Aug 2008, 14:26
Am of the ilk that when on holiday be on holiday if that means a beer at 6 a.m. in Luton departures then so be it, it makes me feel good.


:yuk: Rather you than me. I like a beer with the best of them, but not for breakfast (unless of course it's merely the conclusion of the night before!).

radeng
11th Aug 2008, 14:28
Beer for breakfast was common up until the early 1800s. Admittedly, it was 'small beer', about 1.5 to 2%.

Conan The Barber
11th Aug 2008, 14:46
Sorry old boy, I don't do horses. Not even in the way that just popped into your head.

I am truly sorry to hear about your terminal jetlag, but then this clog popping business needs to have a cause, I suppose. Anyhow, as your 2 in the morning is fast approaching I won't pretend not to bore you any longer.

Toodle Pip.

tezzer
11th Aug 2008, 15:05
Actually no, 9 in the morning has just passed here, so have taken my breakfast, am suited and booted, and ready for a hard day's work improving the UK's balance of payments.

Maude Charlee
11th Aug 2008, 19:25
"Checking at Humberside.............."

What did you expect? :}

Rollingthunder
12th Aug 2008, 01:53
Yup, did some observing at the airport today.

Nicely dressed - pilots, flight attendants, business class pax.

Poorly dressed - pretty much everyone else. T-shirts, flip flops, running shoes, sandals, those hideous just below the knee shorts, baseball caps and about 50% chronically obese.

Howard Hughes
12th Aug 2008, 02:04
When we went, once a year, usually to the new destination of Palma, people dressed for the occasion, dad in his flanels & blazer, mum in a nice new outfit, and people behaved correctly.

I fly weekly these days for work, and after this last trip's outbound leg felt it worth an oberservation or two.

Checking in at Humberside for a flight to Amsterdam, the check-in area was full of football / rugby shirts, women who loked like they'd just come in from doing the gardening, or the bin round, kids screaming around the place without a thought for the people they were climbing over or the seats they were jumping on, in a word, disgraceful.

This phenomenon is not just exclusive to aviation, think back to when you went into a shop 30 years ago, all the shop assistants were in suits and ties, the women in dresses. Fast forward thirty years, the shop assistants are wearing jeans, flip flops and most showing their under wear and thats just the blokes, don't even get me started on eye brow rings etc...:rolleyes:

Standards across the full spectrum of society have declined, so I woud think it only natural that they decline in aviation also!:hmm:

Probably part of the reason is cost, 30 years ago it cost $2000AUD to go from SYD-LHR-SYD, tickets can still be had for this price now!:eek:

Nicely dressed - pilots, flight attendants, business class pax.

Even there standards have dropped, no hats, pilot's without ties who can't even tuck their shirts in! Many business people in Jeans/Khakis, society has gone to the dogs...:{

radeng
12th Aug 2008, 08:51
One is reminded of the story of the Editor of Punch magazine in the 1870s, who was accosted in his club by an irritated old gentleman saying 'Sir! Punch is nowhere near as good as it used to be'. The reply was 'No, sir, and it never has been!'

Euravia First
12th Aug 2008, 10:09
My first flight was Luton to Venice {Euravia Constellation} in 1962 at the age of 17

In those days:-

1--People behaved better--Apart from a {pre-Thatcher} "sense of society" meaning people considered the feelings of others much more than they do today, they knew that bad behaviour meant the real risk of losing their job. That mattered then since it was unacceptable in many areas of employment to have been sacked---No other employer would take you on. Certainly not if you had a "decent" job--e.g. in banking, insurance, civil service and the like

2--People had less money--Most jobs had age related salaries--Those under 30 or so usually had very modest salaries. Therefore the annual holiday [taken out of a precious two weeks annual holiday entitlement] was really special and anyone spoiling it with the sort of behaviour we see all too frequently now would not be tolerated. A flight was a great adventure, most probably saved up for over most of the working year ! You were considered extremely fortunate to be going to e.g. Palma as referred to in an earlier posting --- Most people were going to Hastings or Skegness, or if somewhat more affluent maybe Bournemouth !

Therefore 45 years ago people had much less, needed to behave to keep in employment and were truly grateful for their 2 weeks in the sun.

Nowadays most of them "have it all" from day one and many of them appear to see no need to behave as others might wish. { Is this perhaps due to their having grown up in the 80's when being selfish and greedy seemed to many of us to be something being praised ?}

Just possibly these are one or two of the reasons why flying with the people of Britain today may not always be the most pleasant of experiences.

Effluent Man
12th Aug 2008, 10:25
I'm not entirely sure that people behaved better in the days of my youth.Certainly I had an uncle who on failing his driving test for the third time just threw away his L plates and drove happily for the next thirty years,

TV programs with CCTV showing the chavocracy at play give the impression of a dissolute world,If you read literature from 50 years ago Sillitoe,Barstow et al you realise that the working class (Of which I certainly WAS a member before the lines got blurred) were always a bit inclined to flout the rules.

Mrs E is always telling me we need more discipline.I thought the postman was inspecting that cane shaped package she had delivered with rather too much interest, she will be getting the neighbourhood a bad name.

Impress to inflate
12th Aug 2008, 10:30
Do the right thing old boy and pen a letter to the CEO of KLM informing him of your displeasure regarding the bad conduct of his crew in transit passing on details of times and dates.

I started flying in the mid seventies all over UK and long haul as a kid and bad behavior was not tolerated !! A swift clip around the ear

Impress to inflate
12th Aug 2008, 10:32
Do the right thing old boy and pen a letter to the CEO of KLM informing him of your displeasure regarding the bad conduct of his crew in transit passing on details of times and dates.

I started flying in the mid seventies all over UK and long haul as a kid and bad behavior was not tolerated !! A swift clip around the ear.

Standard Noise
12th Aug 2008, 15:55
Seems to be an echo in here.

What gets me is the big well known stores. How can you summon help in a large supermarket if you are unaware that the scrote in ripped jeans and t-shirt is a staff member. Mrs Noise hates shopping there with me. In this case 'every little (bit of uniform) helps.'
Couple of weeks ago, went into the local branch of Boots and the young girl behind the counter had a plain white blouse and jeans on. Said to Mrs Noise that standards were slipping and she should have a word with her area manager (Mrs N manages a backroom dept in another Boots not far from the town we live in). She sighed and said 'they don't give a toss anymore.' She runs a dept were they never see the paying public and she still has to wear company uniform.

Flame Lily FX
12th Aug 2008, 16:57
I have also noticed some scruffy hosties. Tsk! Tsk! I, however, still like to maintain my own personal high standard and wear my smart frocks when I go a-travelling.:)

fireflybob
12th Aug 2008, 17:21
I notice falling standards in other areas. When one orders a snack such as flapjack at a certain well known health club of which I am a member one has to ask for a plate to put it on (ok its wrapped in cellophane) and then also a napkin to go with it. I think the fact that one has to ask for these items is indicative of how those who serve them might behave when it comes to eating them in the bar area.

Sir George Cayley
12th Aug 2008, 20:05
A Napkin?

Would a plain Serviette not do?


Sir George Cayley

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2008, 20:08
No - it has to be a double damask danner nipkin . . .

asiaseen
12th Aug 2008, 22:05
Just re-reading Christopher Brookmyre's A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away and came across this apposite quote:

He'd always meant to investigate whether Airtours wouldn't actually let you board the plane unless your entire family were wearing matching shell suits and had a combined kilogram weight in four figures.

ExSp33db1rd
13th Aug 2008, 04:59
As I never qualify for anything other than row 96Z now, I have dispensed with flying in jacket and tie and have created a travelling ‘uniform’.

Voluminous trousers, all the better for sitting for 12 hrs in 96Z, huge safari type shirt with various opening vents and massive pockets to carry passport, ticket wallet, glasses, pen, and other essential paraphernalia to accompany being under ‘seat arrest’ for 12 hrs, totally metal free plastic buckled belt, which I absolutely refuse to remove for the Gestapo, and which contains a folded $100 note in case of emergency, like an aircraft evacuation; and slip on shoes for the aforesaid Gestapo, my choice being a pair of turquoise green Crocs, and if Mrs. Ex objects I can find a pair of black ones !

If cold or wet are envisaged, a light unlined nylon Bomber jacket that squashed up into a trouser pocket is carried.

What standards ? I doubt I could even find a tie now. :8

The first thing I do on being seated is find the sick bag, which I attach to the headrest of the seat in front - to collect all the excess garbage one seems to be assailed with, including that which comes on the meal tray, which then gives me some useful space to eat in peace without trying to balance everything. Q.E.D.

ExSp33db1rd
13th Aug 2008, 05:04
I find it easier to proof read paper than a computer screen.

Funny that, so do I. Wonder why ?

sisemen
13th Aug 2008, 11:20
The rot set in the first time that the check-in desk person (personette?) allowed a shell-suited, trainer shod, xchain-smoking git who didn't look like they'd seen a gymnasium since they left primary school through the gate to sit in an aeroplane next to "nice" people.

Grayfly
13th Aug 2008, 13:36
The budget airlines made it cheap to fly, so 'cheap' people started to fly. These 'types' would have normally taken some sort of old white van to go places, and behave accordingly. I recently flew out of Luton and witnessed lots of tatooed body pierced types with football shirts and appalling manners drinking heavily at 07.00hrs, apparently on their way to Malagapalma or something like that. The men were just as bad. Their feral offspring were screaming and destroying whatever they could get their hands on.

The demise and removal of working class from society has just left us with an uneducated and totally pointless uncontrolled sub culture who are free to roam and create havoc where ever they go. Apparently they have rights which decent people don't have. Would that be voting rights perhaps?

Standards haven't slipped, they have completely collapsed.

Flame Lily FX
13th Aug 2008, 16:47
Alternatively...not much point in having empty aircraft now, hmm? (Ahem...even if that would be preferable!):} I like the way cheese or beef rolls are now served to you straight from their catering cardboard box....what happened to the silver platter and silver tongs, hmm?:{

All my outfits are matching fake Burberry....that should count for something!:)

Standard Noise
13th Aug 2008, 17:12
matching fake Burberry
Who let Daniella Westbrook in here!?
:}

Grayfly
13th Aug 2008, 19:07
When I said in my last post above about these 'types' wearing football shirts, I realise now that it could in fact have been a football team going off somewhere. The similarities are uncanny.

Further proof of slipping standards, when I visit clients I often wear smart suit, shirt and tie. One of my clients actually suggested I should look less smart as it was making some of his staff 'uncomfortable' in meetings etc. I countered with the modern cr*p answer that surely it doesn't matter what we look like, it's what we contribute that counts. No, apparently it's what we look like and we all must look equally Asda George or Argos to avoid upsetting anyone. :mad:

GROUNDHOG
13th Aug 2008, 20:09
One of my hates is if there is going to ba a uniform make it just that. Recently saw a crew of young ladies dressed in outfit featuring white shirts. I smart white shirt can look really great but some were long sleeved, some short and different styles but none the same! And not all were that white either.....

If you are going to do it, do it properly please.......

sisemen
14th Aug 2008, 17:15
... and then there's the example of the Virgin Blue flightdeck crews :yuk:

parabellum
15th Aug 2008, 04:03
Pet hate. Ordering a beer and only being offered the bottle, what about a bloody glass? What is so special about drinking from a bottle in a bar?

Flame Lily FX
15th Aug 2008, 18:33
There is a possible risk that your drink may get 'spiked' in a glass.

tony draper
15th Aug 2008, 20:39
Good grief! you'll be telling me next that some pruners don't dress for dinner.:uhoh:

Flame Lily FX
15th Aug 2008, 20:48
Don't forget drinkypoos on the verandah at 6pm whilst waiting for the dinner gong....!

CUNIM
15th Aug 2008, 20:49
Good grief Draper, eating in the nude can be quite painful if one spills the gravy when one eats ones Yorkshire as a starter. One always dresses for ones dinner:ok:

parabellum
16th Aug 2008, 03:59
Good point Flame, especially for the ladies, but I don't think that is the reason most young men drink from a bottle in a bar to-day.

Flame Lily FX
16th Aug 2008, 09:55
parabellum, I find it best to go to the bar/lounge/restaurant of 5* hotels nowadays where I can get a soft seat (essential in my dotage lol), gentle background music, free newspapers, nice patios/garden area with ponds and water features, nice toilets/handsoap/hand lotion and relatively attentive waiting staff. :)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 14:30
I too have a uniform for travelling: Slip on shoes so I can take 'em off a hundred times and walk around in my socks on chewing gum strewn floors, Long sleeved shitrts because it's always so bloody cold on the aircraft, Likewise long trousers, Cotton and wool - no synthetics in case we crash and start to burn and I pack as lightly as possible and cram it all in one case in the luggage racks to avoid baggage charges.Though of course I still like to travel in a pretty frock if it doesn't involve flying.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Aug 2008, 14:40
I normally roll my eyes at the continual stream of JetBlast posts that denounce the world of today as failing miserably to match the (mythical) world of the poster's youth. However, I did just see one quote which caught my eye.
The demise and removal of working class from society has just left us with an uneducated and totally pointless uncontrolled sub culture who are free to roam and create havoc where ever they go. I think perhaps the single biggest difference between today and yesteryear is the way everything devolves to money now.
Of course money has always been important, but I think that we used to value people for what they did as much as what their posessions were. In fact we may have scaled our expectations of their assets to their position.What I mean is that people used to be Carpenters and Plumbers and shopkeepers and while that would never get them an invite to a garden party, they were recognised as skilled tradesmen who produced the finest ships, steel, pottery, cloth, coal etc in the world.Now we only care about money; how much we get and how much everyone else gets. Everything is made in China and everybody shops at Wall-Mart and Target. I think the quote was correct, we HAVE removed the working class and consequently removed the need for those people to behave in front of their peers. It's the same for the middle classes too. We're all lumped in together now.
What I'm saying is that if money is all that is important and you'll never have as much as other people, then what way is there to prove to the world that you exist?

parabellum
17th Aug 2008, 03:14
Interesting that Flame, there was a time in my life when I used to go to exactly the bars/lounges you describe in the hope of meeting nice ladies with time on their hands!:E