View Full Version : Reducing weight - reducing costs.

8th Aug 2008, 20:30
Ok, I don't where the hell else to put this. I've been through this 2 or 3 times in my career in real terms, even had contests for winning ideas. Cutlery is already plastic, dishes are lightweight or styrofoam type stuff, drop a bar cart, remove a galley, you can cut magazines and inflight magazines, demand flight attendants stick to strict weight limits, trim down food and beverage on-loads to just what is projected to be required, no pillows or blankets etc etc.

What really works, if anything? No messing with fuel loads please.

8th Aug 2008, 20:37
Do away with those nice comfy pilot seats and install a couple of treadmills.

The energy created could be used to assist in powering the SLF laptops AND the new lightweight flightdeck could save $$$$$ in fuel burn.

Just a suggestion.

8th Aug 2008, 20:43
Heard on the wireless that some airline is reducing the thickness of the cling-film used to cover the food . . .

(in order to reduce weight)

8th Aug 2008, 21:15
Seat design maybe? Many quality race car seats are very light, just a few kilos, and I'm sure they'd be as inherently structurally sound/controllable for crash resistance (inlcuding the frame), even with a recline facility.

With further design changes, a shell type seat could be made as "comfortable" as some of the present economy class seats I'd've thought. I've spent hours in these seats in the past and felt no worse than after a flight in Economy.

Guess full development and testing/cert. costs would be sizeable though.

tony draper
8th Aug 2008, 21:16
Put all the luggage in a small glider and tow it behind.:)

8th Aug 2008, 21:19
...and to add to this: why tote all those heavy cushions back and forth when many seats are empty on a flight? Have a spare pile at each hub that can be quickly dropped into place on turnaround to suit the needs of the flight.

8th Aug 2008, 21:19
Pilots could wear a small watch instead of a Breitling? :}



8th Aug 2008, 21:21
Put all the luggage in a small glider and tow it behind.:)

Then release it halfway?

tony draper
8th Aug 2008, 21:23
Do you know the romantic novelist Barbara Cartland invented the towed glider?,one uses the term novelist in its loosest sense here.

Loose rivets
8th Aug 2008, 21:25
One outfit with Brits, found they could get two extra seats in by stripping the old paint off.

Removel of BS from the operating procedure would save 500kgs ;)

8th Aug 2008, 21:35
Do you know the romantic novelist Barbara Cartland invented the towed glider?,one uses the term novelist in its loosest sense here.

Was it pink? I bet she didn't test it though... did she? :p

8th Aug 2008, 21:37
Fill all vacant space in wings and cargo area with Helium.

9th Aug 2008, 08:08
Have you considered potable water?


9th Aug 2008, 09:16
Move the dutyfree shop from departures to arrivals.

9th Aug 2008, 10:20
Open catering stations downroute - that would save hundreds of kilos of carts if you didn't have to cater two sectors at once.

Ok, so that could be economically unviable but I have watched a good ton of carts being shoved into a 757 when a little creative management could have easily saved the weight. Same goes for newspapers - they weigh tons, are regularly pinched & are pretty unneccesary for most flights I would argue.

9th Aug 2008, 11:08
Fill the passenger cabin with anaesthetic gas after takeoff, purge it a few mins before landing.

Result 1 - no food, drink, entertainment needed on board = huge weight savings.

Result 2 - no hijacking attempts.

9th Aug 2008, 14:56
Why is this in JETBLAST????????? :ugh:


9th Aug 2008, 15:08
I have no idea.... couldn't think of a better place. It requires off the wall thinking. Aside from drilling additional holes in structural components, what the hell do you do to reduce weight? Having audited the manufacturing of seats...I cannot think of ways to reduce their weights and still meet safety requirements. I've got it......ban paying pax and their nasty luggage.

9th Aug 2008, 15:25
rubber bands for thrust

9th Aug 2008, 17:54
Reducing seat weight by reducing structural strength....


As an off-the wall guess, I wonder if I'm right in thinking that in any past survivable incident involving a very sudden (9G) stop, and there's not too many of those, most of the seat frames broke loose from the floor rails, so that the strength of the seat structure itself meant little in terms of safety.

Passenger obesity would be a factor in the future. A 3-seat frame could have a load of 400+ Kg, if the lardies could manage to squeeze their arses into the space available.

You could argue that the solution is to improve the seat mountings, not to reduce the weight and strength of the seat. But no-one's going to do that, any more than they will fit the safer, rear-facing seats, because the bean-counters have always vetoed it and will continue to do so (more weight and fewer passengers).

So the seats might as well be weaker and lighter, with no adverse effect on the actual, realistic survivability of crashes. I recommend a return to the days of grace and style, using wickerwork chairs, which passengers are free to arrange as they wish to form social or family groups, circulating a fresh white wine, informed comment on the issues of the day and a little light banter to while away the flight.

This is Jet Blast, after all.

9th Aug 2008, 20:13
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction........

the little fatties' "weightless" moments would be evened out by the increased force on the floor needed to push them into the air in the first place.

And think of the damage to the floor.

No, it's back to the wickerwork.

Jetex Jim
9th Aug 2008, 21:19
Remove the lifejackets and safety cards, when was the last time anybody used 'em?

But this is the best one.

Move the dutyfree shop from departures to arrivals.

9th Aug 2008, 21:34
Impossible, but: Get wife to pack only what's needed.

Check-in personnel: I'm sure you can confirm that a female travelling alone brings at least double the kilos of a ditto male, yes ?

Being a private pilot, I love telling my wife that if we don't get airborne and crash at the end of the runway, the air accident report will note that my wife's excessive baggage was a significantly contributing factor.

9th Aug 2008, 21:41
Get rid of that extra engine (twins). Replace it with a rocket motor. Use the rocket in emergency or low fuel.
Think low power rocket to maintain airspeed not fly to the moon.

tony draper
9th Aug 2008, 22:28
Only rocket motor ever devised that had a throttle control to alter thrust was on the LEM decent engine,not many people know that.

Jetex Jim
9th Aug 2008, 22:48
Not so sure about that TD.
* The first of six unarmed prototypes, the "Me-163A V1" ... The engine was a Walter RII-203, which could be throttled from about 1.47 kN (150 kgp / 330 lbf) to 7.34 kN (750 kgp / 1,650 lbf) thrust. It was what was called a "cold" engine, powered by concentrated hydrogen peroxide ("T-Stoff") mixed with a liquid catalyst (calcium permanganate solution or "Z-stoff") that converted the hydrogen peroxide to hot steam.

Possibly same engineers on LM though.

9th Aug 2008, 23:00
There you go, it's happened again.

There's always some well-informed smart-arse waiting to pounce.

But don't we all learn a lot we didn't know before!

9th Aug 2008, 23:50
Get rid of on-board duty free completely.

But here's my own idea,

Get rid of passenger's coinage.
Exchange it for notes at check-in or substitute it for a credit note redeemable on arrival. Would work for domestic flights at least...perhaps in conjunction with the bureau de change when elsewhere.

Provide re-charging of passengers' laptops on the ground - less need t plug in during the flight.

And ban souvenir shops from the airport if not passengers baggage completely. It's all pointless tat in the end.

10th Aug 2008, 00:01
Another story from the anals (sic) of JetBlast - a flight had difficulty taking off. It transpired that the bulk of the passengers were travelling to a numismatists convention (that's coin dealers) and their carry-on bags were stuffed with metal 'pieces' (must've been some considerable time ago before bags were x-rayed).

10th Aug 2008, 00:31
Use UAV tech, and get rid of the flight deck crew, if passengers where woried, they could always put dummies in the front. no wouldn't work, they already..........oop's

donning steel helmet, flack jacket, heading for trench

10th Aug 2008, 05:26
Make a minimum check in time of 3 hours mandatory. Then make each PAX take a diuretic and a fast acting laxative. Result is a loss in body weight. To avoid problems, shut ALL airside shops.

10th Aug 2008, 07:46
Open a vast new terminal at a major London airport that has a black hole to ingest a significant proportion of the baggage thus negating the need to carry it on an aeroplane, thus reducing fuel burn. Train all the cabin crew to begin their PAs with "We, The World's Favourite Airline apologise for losing..." Or do like a certain cheap airline in the Midlands, carry so little catering that it is always sold out after the first few sectors, and refuse to re-cater at all during the day. We don't need to remove the lifejackets or safety cards: our passengers do it for us: we buy them back from Ebay thus saving the chore of printing and laminating the cards for ourselves. We also don't carry a ship set of FCNs, but each pilot carries his own full set: it reduces the aeroplanes DOW, and curves the pilot's spine (although I don't know if that provides a fuel saving).

10th Aug 2008, 08:00
There's a rumour going around these parts that Air Asia are planning to weigh each passenger with his or her baggage and charge accordingly. Suppose it would stop the ones who stagger on board with 3 or 4 unwieldy items of carry-on baggage.

10th Aug 2008, 10:04
Call the Racial Discrimination Police!

A small Thai person with a briefcase (say, <70Kg) could easily end up paying 1/2 of the fare paid by a teenager from Minnesota* (>110Kg) with the essential snacks, bottled water, IT/comms/entertainment equipment and protective clothing (>30Kg) he or she needs to survive in the unsafe and threatening world outside the US of A.

That's soooo unfair. We can see Air Asia 's anti-US strategy here, and it should be stopped right now.

*Or anywhere else, of course, in the USA: I've got nothing against Minnesota, nice place, charming people, although often rather obese. It was simply the first name that sprang to mind, I don't know why.

Edit: Of course that would also apply to teenagers from Hull, England. Or Wigan.

10th Aug 2008, 11:46
The UK Post Office have introduced 'size' slots (in addition to weight scales) to differentiate letters from packets,so I suppose airlines could have similar 'slots' that passengers could negotiate, with those of slight build being accommodated in closely-spaced seating at a basic fare whilst the larger passengers directed to 'fuller' seating at deluxe prices.

Way to go IMO.

(Oh, and that would be in addition to weighing passengers and their total baggage. If passengers had to pay for the bottles of duty-free according to excess-baggage rates then you'd see a reduction in uptake.)

tony draper
10th Aug 2008, 12:20
Go by sea,no matter how many bodies you pile onto a ship it don't weigh anymore,you do however increase its mass.:)

Conan The Barber
10th Aug 2008, 13:30
Increase seat pitch.

2 Dogs
10th Aug 2008, 13:43
:ok::ok: Move the dutyfree shop from departures to arrivals.:ok::ok:

Definitely the most sensible and easy to implement idea.

Emirates have just announced that they are removing sat back reading material and foot rests from their aircraft to reduce weight.

That would probably be a good idea if it wasn't for the fact that Emirates seats are absolutely THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE economy class seats I have ever sat on.

Does anybody else find that, when the seat is reclined, ones legs lift off the floor. I am 6' tall and cannot put my feet flat on the floor with the seat reclined. At least with the footrest it was possible to get some support.
Definitely a bad move Emirates, unless U plan to lower the seat cushions :(

10th Aug 2008, 17:06
You cannot carry water or any other liquids on board now in carry on baggage. We pay sin-tax, skin-tax and now the rumoured 'big fat bastard' tax; you're right, it is discriminatory.

11th Aug 2008, 02:07
The fastest fuel burn is on takeoff. Tons of the stuff loaded on board, then lost in global warming, almost immediately. Surely we can devise a more efficient system.

All you need is a conveyer belt...

Jetex Jim
11th Aug 2008, 06:24
Move the dutyfree shop from departures to arrivals.

Would seem to be the very smart thing to do, for safety and weight saving purposes.

However, as every delayed departure means more recreational shopping for anxious passengers, and keeps the tills going in those shopping malls known as airport terminals, it'll never happen.

11th Aug 2008, 17:26
It's a good idea to buy duty free on arrival. I know both KL and Bangkok airports have that facility but few people use it. Also some airlines encourage passengers to buy on board. I think there is not enough info about duty free facilities at airports of arrival at places of departure, probably for profit reasons.

11th Aug 2008, 21:20
Toilet Waste

Huge costs are incurred carrying toilet waste to the destination, where even more costs are incurred in off-loading it and taking it somehere where it is fed into the groundwater system, perhaps via a cleaning system, perhaps not if the contractor is short of money.

So it should be pumped overboard at above FL100, significantly lightening ship and saving ground handling costs and adeverse environmental impact.

On dense routes this could result in a delightful new meteorological phenonenum as high altitude trails of brownish/yellow ice crystals, enhanced by the occasional shred of cotton wool and cotton threads, (and some thin latex particles on Easyjet routes) catch the sunlight in a beautiful display, especially around sunset.

The amount of weight lost can be increased if desired by a mixture of complimentary laxatives and variations in engine note with the odd bang.

Research by Nottingham University Department of Effluent Sciences shows that up to 5 kg per pssenger can be discarded overboard in this way on a medium-haul flight, with careful use of dietary and terror management.

Jimmy Macintosh
11th Aug 2008, 21:57
Keep the duty free stores where they are, but change pick up point. Buy prior to departure, pick up after arrival.

12th Aug 2008, 22:57
Go 'an have an 'olliday in Cornwall-travel by bus&train:ok:

Keep surfin' & if you wanna get on on an aeroplane in future, at least you'll comfortably squeeze in between the lard-ars*s either side of you:)

Why are we flying overweight people all over the world?