Turning 19, Sponsorship or university?

[robybobey]

Hi guys, I have lurked around this forum for a while, but only just decided to register.

I'll cut straight to it. Ever since the age of four years old, my dream has been to fly for an airline. I remember talking to a captain on a flight from Manchester to Orlando (B742) at the age of six, he was astonished that I knew so much and as a result, he gave me the whole flight plan for me to look at.

It's partly my Mum that has made me the way I am in terms of my ambition.....she works and MAN. I carried out my work experience there; it was the best two weeks of my life. I got to explore the whole of the airport including the fire station, 4 runway inspections, ATC as well as aircraft ops. I even got to choose an aircraft and was driven straight to it so I could explore the ins and outs of it (It was a brand new EK B773).

But now I have a dilemma. My A Level results are published next Thursday and I’m torn between going to university to study law and then funding my training later in life, or applying for a sponsorship with Easy jet.....

I know that I could fail the initial assessments and could be told that I'm not a suitable applicant, but life is about taking risks, isn't it?

So, I’m asking you guys as pilots and keen aviation enthusiasts with a lot of experience, sponsorship or university?

Thanks in advance,

James

[BerksFlyer]

Defer university place by a year and see what you can do in that year with regards to training. I assume you're talking about the CTC Wings scheme, and I trust you're aware that easyJet are not taking anyone on at the moment. Whether that will have changed in 2 years time is anyone's guess.

[Icanseeclearly]

in my opinion University without a doubt especially with the current uncertainty within the airlines (oh and you get 3 years of fun with little responsibilties)

Have you thought of a University scholarship with the RAF / Navy they pay you to go to uni then you get 16 years of awesome flying and after that you join the airlines its the route I took (albeit 20 years ago) and I have never regreted it.

[99jolegg]

I'd personally go for the 'sponsorship'. If law isn't really what you want to go into, then I can't see much point in doing it.

I was in the same position as you and cancelled my deferred entry to university to go into aviation.

As for whether there will be jobs, it's likely that there will be - as lots of those in the know with regards to economics have said. If you put it on a timescale, you'll see that the application for flight school (you mention CTC's scheme) will take you at least a month, probably more if you want plenty of time to prepare for the assessments. After which, the next available course will be no earlier than March, but most probably April or May 09. Add two years to that for training + the inevitable delays during training, and you're out in the summer of 2011...

Of course, things could go from bad to worse, but from what even the most negative of prophets have said on here, it is predicted that things will pick up towards 2011 / 2012 and CTC are still placing their cadets, albeit slowly.

Yes university is probably 3 years of fun, but it's also 3 years of cost towards an industry you don't want to be in. I never really understood the part of going to university if you want a career in aviation. When people argue that you should go to university, phrases like "amazing experience", "life experience" and "best experience of your life" come up. However, you can gain life experience with work and other pursuits (I feel more so than uni*), you can travel around Europe and the world and will have done something far more different to those that followed the crowd!

*I dumped uni, have worked in 2 industries so far, learnt a lot about both, worked with 14 year olds to 75 year olds, earnt lots of money, gone on experiences I wouldn't have had before, met hundreds of different people, worked towards aviation, did a distance learning diploma, been able to get work experience whilst socialising at the same time and to top it all, had the social life with those mates that went to uni! :E

Everybody is different - what works for one may not work for another and nobody's suggestion on here is by any means definitive.

Good luck!

Edited to add I don't want to sound like what I said is naive - it'll be tough for years to come, very tough but if you work hard, get into a reliable FTO that has a good reputation and are sensible with timing, you will have done everything in your power to ensure success. Is there ever a right time?

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Just remember that the CTC Wings programme will see you paying for the training yourself through reduced salary for 7 years. There are no free rides in easyJet.

[BerksFlyer]

Just remember that the CTC Wings programme will see you paying for the training yourself through reduced salary for 7 years. There are no free rides in easyJet.

That's another point.

The so called sponsorship you speak of doesn't exist. It's isn't a proper sponsorship. If you want that look up Highland Airways or RVL or Atlantic Airlines, though they all require a PPL (Atlantic want 150 hours aswell) and you have to work on the ground for a period of time. The word sponsorship comes up atleast once a week here and you must research these things because there really aren't any sponsorships... atleast not in the way people seem to have in mind - most think that pilots get sponsored because they did about 20 years ago. It is no more.

[Slopey]

I never really understood the part of going to university if you want a career in aviation

Because a career in aviation can be destroyed in the blink of an eye if for any reason you can't get a Class 1 medical. Then having the option of another career can be a life saver.

If you don't want to do law, take a year out, and reapply for something you do want to do. But to get any sort of decent job these days a degree is pretty much mandatory (and ubiquitous).

[cfwake]

Have a look at two threads called "why is modular cheaper than integrated ??" and "Is a Uni Degree necessary nowadays?" from a few weeks ago. On the first, have a gander at my post which was the longest two rambles I've ever had but they seemed to strike a chord with other people, and the post by nashers on the latter, which is a similar viewpoint.

Says it all to be honest!

[robybobey]

Many thanks for your replies! I was not actually aware of Easyjet not taking anybody on at the moment. As for law, I've always thought of it as a back up - it interests me....

However, I have recently found this: JAA Pilot Flight Training - Pilot Training College Ireland - professional pilot courses honours BSc degree level (http://www.pilottraining.ie/) Anybody trained with them?

Thanks again! :ok:

[agent.oen]

I would opt for a university degree. It's acting safe imo. As other users posted, your life as a pilot depends on your next medical and sim assessment. What happens if you fail one of those at any point in time of your job? If you have a degree, you can still work in something professionally and have a financially secure life.

I will not say university is fun, but it is memorable. I decided to further my studies to a master's degree in order to secure a decent, well paid job so as I may fund my ATPL modular training. Keep in mind that you may not be able to make it to a 'sponsored' scheme.

If law is not what you want, spend some time to reconsider what other areas in university may be of further interest, consider the oportunities available in that area and see how you feel then. True, you may 'lose out' on 3-4 years of your life that way, but if you consider their value to your life if all else fails, I assure you that you won't regret it.

My 2p.

A.O.

[GS-Alpha]

I always say university first to these questions. It is what I did, and it is also something that many of my friends (who started training straight from school) say that they regret having missed out on. However, it is very important that you enjoy the subject you are about to study, and also that it is the stepping stone to your second choice career if you do not make it as a pilot. So if you like the law, and would like to work in the law, I'd say go to university first.

After all, you can always keep your eye on the availability of flying sponsorships and scholarships, and quit the degree to start flying, if you are successful upon application for one.

[don't_ask_me]

Agree completely with the very first post.

Defer your entry for a year, find the best job you can in the aviation industry and get a good feel of what it is about. You seem to like the airport environment. Talk to whoever you can - and try network. Maybe get yourself a PPL.

...BUT...

Talk to your friends who have gone to university. See if it is as good as all the marketing and hard sell they have shoved down your throat in the last 2 years.

...THEN...

Next year, you can choose whether to go to university or carry on working.

...HOWEVER...

Sponsorship or University is not a good comparison. It's very doubtful that you could just cancel your university places, sit at home, apply for a few sponsorships and get in (for obvious reasons.) You're either going to be working until the current downturn is over and sponsorships pick up, or until you are in a position to pay your way down the modular route.

Both options seem good. What do you want to do? There are some experienced people on here and some who are not (me.) Don't make big decisions on what you read here; no-one here can answer the random and obvious question inserted into this paragraph.

Hope you get the results you want :ok:

(You can always just flip a coin :E)

don't_ask

[preduk]

I'm in the process of doing a Law degree, don't like it much but it's a backup plan, although I just turned 17 when I went to University so was pretty young at the time.

I would rather join the cops if i don't get the dream airline job.

[adwjenk]

Hi,

Sponsorships are sort of dead in the water and a lot of airlines have frozen recruitment this winter. But really you have to look ahead with the market and not now, when I started training it was great and when I finished only 3 airlines were recruiting.
The decision has to be made by you and you alone weigh up the odds of going to university and going into flight training straight after, compared to just flight training, but also weigh up the cost of doing both!!!! What I did was made sure I had my class one medical sorted in my last year of sixth form, got a place at a FTO and had the loan and everything sorted, so I deferred Uni for a year, that way if I hit a brick wall or had to drop out I had a back up. The school I went to offered a skills protection plan so my money would be safe.
Needless to say when the Uni called me back asking if I wanted my place I had a CPL and was half way through the IR, do I have any regrets none at all. I had the time of my life training and have lived in 2 different countries already. Uni changes you but so does flight training every time I came back from a phase of training my family saw a change in me, how you grow up and take on the responsibility that flying brings with it. I am lucky I turned 20 last month and now have over 150hrs flying 737's across Europe and a good career ahead of me, most of my friends at Uni are loving it but are scared of next year coming around where they have no idea what they are going to do. The majority will never use their degree for work, the rare few will. Some hate their degree but love the life style, so will be back at square one after 3 years of uni. Who says if you do a degree as a back up you will actually use it, ok in your case law you most likely will. But in reality how many young airline pilots if things did go wrong would be able to go back into another job........not many the ones who will, will be the older generation where flying is a second career for them! At the end of the day its one hell of a big gamble going into aviation and sometimes you just have to take the risk, otherwise you will have back up plan after back up plan!

All the best and good luck!!!

[Ennie]

Uni for sure, when you finish you'll be what 22 maybe 23. If you still fancy easyjet then you'll have some 43 years left to fly for them, sounds great huh! :{

Go have some fun, plenty of time for this industry - it might be on the climb again once you have your degree! :ok:

[poss]

Easyjet are apparently starting up recruitment in October and considering their order list for the A319 I don't that they can afford to halt recruitment this winter. As many know though in this game you cannot be sure of anything, things don't happen according to a plan. If aviation is your dream go for it, if you take the risk and it pays off then your laughing.
Atlantic and Highland are about as close to a "true" sponsorship your going to get. I have skills I can take with me into a good job completely different to that of an airline pilot, that is without a degree. I hope you make the right decision for you.
Good luck
:ok:

[owenoundle]

hi

I have just graduated from uni studying engineering. I was in your boots 4 years ago. I spoke to lots of pilots before uni and they all said to go to uni first then make your final decision after. What I learnt it is crucial having a backup when entering the airline industry as it is an ever changing environment and no-one knows what could happen tomorrow. I am glad I went to uni as i feel that i am now more mature and I have been learning in a team environment which is crucial for the cockpit environment. In the end of the day it is your opinion, but you are still young and 3 or 4 years of education can't do anything to ruin your chances of becoming a pilot but improve your chances!!!! I am now applying to numerous schemes and ready to go to aviation school!

David

[Day_Dreamer]

I fully agree with adwjenk.
Its your decision BUT;
There are no sponsorships in European aviation at this time.
CTC whilst good in their early days, are extreemly difficult to get into and most who do are mature and well educated usually with a degree.
Right now they are finding great difficulty in placing their students because of the cutbacks in the industry.
Oxford Aviation Academy are offering selection assessments on a regular basis, so why not pay the money and see if you have what it takes to enter a course this or early next year.
Some will say that its too expensive and you can do just as well at GAPAN, but the two day selection will give you great insight into yourself and your chosen career. A very well considered debrief is given at the end of the two days.
Should you not get through they identify your weak areas and give advice on how to improve.
Then you might go to uni and take an associated aviation degree.
However after 3 years you will still be in the same situation you are today, but with a degree and probably you will have a higher level of maturity.

Finally there may be a stronger upturn in the industry after you finish in 5 years from now.
But even then sponsorship's will not be out there for the taking they will be very hard to come by.
Today there are no real sponsorships when you look into the terms and conditions offered by the companies.

Should you wish for further information send me a private message.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

There are no sponsorships, there will be no jobs, a recession is booked for 2009 and 2010. Stay well away from aviation for a couple of years.

Go to Uni if you must but never make the mistake of doing something dull, which you have no interest in, but think will act as a good backup. You'll hate it, perform poorly and basic degrees as backup plans are pants.

Do something interesting and not overly taxing, join the OTC or TA or UAS or something, get some backpacking done and get an evening job to help avoid debt.

You'll be more of a man at the end of that than the beginning and that will be important in your early aviation training career.

There is NO rush at the moment. This is, after all, 1991.

WWW

[Paolo]

Don't even think about, do it!

I was like you, dreaming of flying commercial airliners for a living when I was a child and started to save up for my flight training. In 1993, aged 17 I got a PPL and through sheer determination qualified and got my first job in 1998 on the BAe 146 with Debonair. Lucky break, but you make your own luck.

When I started my PPL the aviation job market was pretty dire but picked up in 1998/99. Managed to save and spend my way through training, didn't own a car, lived at home with parents etc. Spent £35k on my training because I could not pass these aptitude tests or get passsed the application stage.(Britannia, Air UK, BA, British Midland and Air Atlantique all said no at either the interview/application form stage)

Now, at 33, I am a Captain on the A320 series flying for a UK operator and would not change a thing. It has given me so much job satisfaction I cannot even begin to tell you how much! Could not imagine doing anything else.

If all you want to do is fly, then that is what you will do and, with the right amount of application, it will happen!

Later on today I am flying to Las Palmas and as I get ready and set off for work, I will think back to those hours I put in stacking shelves at my local supermarket and hours spent studying to get to where I am today.

Only one shot at life, give it your best and aim for your dream job. Sometimes, as in my case, dreams do in fact come true

Dan

[BerksFlyer]

Out of interest, if times were good (say it was 2005 right now), would everyone's answer be to train now?

[robybobey]

Wow, thanks again for your replies! They are somewhat inspiring. It thrills me to know that I am talking to pilots and hearing past experiences!

As stated earlier, I like law, it interests me..........but not as much as aviation. However, from the views expressed by some of you, a degree seems to be the best thing to do which I can use as a back up plan in the future.

Also, a quick question; I have perfect vision however, my left eye has a relaxed muscle meaning that on the very odd occasion, it will sort of turn inwards. I can correct it easily and can have surgery to correct it long term. But could this pose a problem with medicals in the future? It's not as if I get double vision or anything...and it wouldn't be picked up during an eye test.

Many thanks again,

James

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

BerksFlyer - I'm on record through much of 2005 saying it was a great time to train.

When times are good its worth putting yourself in one of the Intergrated schools because they DO get sudden calls from airlines looking for 12 cadets in a month for a type rating course they never expected to need. Right time Right place rules when the industry is booming.

In the busts the trick is to keep debt manageable so as to stay in the game of keeping current long enough to get a job in the end when things pick up. So Modular makes more sense as it can be made slow and done more cheaply.


The boom was fairly easy to call when easyJet ALONE needed 350 new pilots in 2005. The bust is just as easy to call now.


WWW

[dream747]

Though do you stand to lose out if your resume comes into comparison with another applicant who has a degree? Or do airlines only look at experience in terms of flying hours?

[isi3000]

Uni...then you'll have a back up plan :)