Direct Entry Bristow Captains...?

[detgnome]

Stole this link from a military thread:

Captains - United Kingdom - Flight Crew - 200110486 - Flight Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/captains-united-kingdom-flight-crew-united-kingdom-200110486.htm)

Anybody care to comment? I understand that previous attempts to recruit direct entry captains by those companies that recogonise BALPA has caused problems although as I have no direct knowledge I may be talking utter boll**ks. I have heard that Bond are no longer, or just stopping, their direct entry captains as they are now promoting from within...

[Eurochopper]

I believe flungdung is correct - recent fleet growths and up-manning to the correct levels means that we currently have few or no command-ready co-pilots. BALPA has no problem with direct entry captains if there are no internal alternatives.

The only question is where are we expecting to find people with the necessary experience / type ratings? If we poach from Nigeria etc, that will not fix the problem, just move it around. Not sure we present an attractive alternative to CHC / Bond. Lets hope we don't recruit too many direct from the military, I am not sure I can stand another basin flight with "when I was in the military we did it like this..." coming on tape-loop from the other seat:eek:

Perhaps its also worth mentioning that we are advertising for copilots as well

[BaronG]

What if it's "arranged" (or just poor management if you're less cynical) such that FOs in the company cannot gain the experience required to be become a commander?

Just guessing - I don't work for Bristow, but if you need Captains now - and your FOs will take too much time and effort to get on-line, then just side step the FOs and find requirements only existing Captains can meet.

Prob. solved - for the company... Then again, maybe I'm completely wrong about Bristow and it's just some other operators that do such things :E

BG.

[parabellum]

So, let's get real BaronG. Here are your choices, you have a company FO with the required licence/type/hours and suitability. To get him on line as a captain will take a few SIM sessions and checks and some line training and checks. He has considerable route and platform experience.
Alternatively you have a direct entry candidate who has the required licence/type/hours and perceived, but as yet untested, suitability who will require a few SIM sessions and checks and some line training and checks.

If a company sees the need to take in DEC it is likely to be a case of either just not enough SIM time available for a LHS to RHS conversion to meet contractual requirements of qualified pilots on site, a very short term situation, a more or less one-off thing, or they simply don't have the necessary number of licenced/type/hours and suitability qualified FOs for upgrade. It is cheaper to promote from within than to employ DEC if you have the required material to start with.

[SASless]

How much you care to wager the offer will have a proviso for two years in Nigeria before consideration for North Sea and then as vacancies are available. Remember how the BIAGLE contracts read....time in country only counts towards the two years.

We have seen this before have we not?

That and dangling instant up-grade to Captain for senior FO's that will take an overseas tour (read Nigeria) with return to the UK as vacancies occur.

[BaronG]

If a company sees the need to take in DEC it is likely to be a case of either just not enough SIM time available for a LHS to RHS conversion to meet contractual requirements of qualified pilots on site, a very short term situation, a more or less one-off thing, or they simply don't have the necessary number of licenced/type/hours and suitability qualified FOs for upgrade. It is cheaper to promote from within than to employ DEC if you have the required material to start with.You could well be right. However the situation in the UK (apologies if you're in the UK, your location suggests Australia) is that there is more work than capacity, Captains are retiring and you need 2 crew to operate offshore on the kind of things Bristow is doing - the FO is just as much required as the Captain. So promoting an FO here doesn't meet the need of hiring additional pilots and getting the aircraft flying.

Looking at the requirements in the job ad, you need 1500PiC multi-engine helicopters to apply. I imagine this same requirement is true for internal applicants.

So the question is how do you get your FOs to 1500 ME PiC - the lowest hour guys might have only around 100 hours PiC on singles. Those who've gone the instructor route probably tried to get to 1000 hours total meaning they might have 800 PiC hours again on singles. A few will have done other types of flying (police, HEMS etc) and meet the requirements, but many won't (in fact I suspect even people direct out of Mil. won't have the hours they're asking for).

Anyway, regardless of that - if the company has no mechanism to get the FOs the hours to meet command requirements, then the FOs are stuck. The company can either change their procedures such that there is a mechanism in place to get FOs to command - this takes time, effort and 1500 ME hour building from somewhere - or just leave things as they are, point out to BALPA that none of the FOs meet the reqs and start looking for DE captains.

I don't know whether this is good/bad or indifferent - but if you've been sucessfully flying for a company for many years as an FO and still cannot meet the requirements to apply for a command job, while others are hired in to fill the holes.... well something seems odd about that.

As I said, maybe it's just poor management but the cynical part of me feels that maybe there is no incentive for the company to progress FOs if they can (try to) get DECs from outside. I imagine there are FOs who'd like the opportunity but don't meet the requirements and as it stands have no way of ever meeting the requirements. Too bad for them I guess.

BG.

[nbl]

SAS
The advert clearly states UK based -are you suggesting BHL would tell porkies :(:(:(
But there again they did not say when you would be UK based :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
P

[Senior Pilot]

And in the 70's, where did Bristow (and the other NS operators) get their direct entry captains?

"Hi George, I'm leaving the RN in a couple of months. No, I don't want Nigeria. Aberdeen? S61's? OK, see you then" :ok: ;)

[SASless]

Aberdeen based....seconded to BIAGLE....working for Bristow(Nigeria)....same old way of doing business.

I found myself based Aberdeen...temporary assignment to Teeside....and the Ninian...Southampton....and then Isle of Skye.....the only time I spent in Aberdeen was for training, picking up aircraft out of maintenance, or passing thru on my way to the job site. I did two revenue flights out of Aberdeen in my whole time based there.

Not that I am complaining....as living out of a suitcase had it's merits.:ok:

Accuse Bristow of telling porkies....never! I swear!;)

Suggesting Bristow of twisting the truth into unrecognizable shapes and forms....well perhaps.

One must read all the fine print....even that which is not there....before signing the Terms and Conditions, Letter of Appointment, and the rest of the pile of "legal documentation" presented for one's signature.:{

At some time we can always open a thread for discussion of a "Bristow Promises Made.....and sometimes kept!":E

[Eurochopper]

Because the company has seen significant expansion of work, all command-ready copilots now have their commands. Because recruitment was frozen for a few years, the next lot down have only been in the company for about 2 years max and just don't have anything like the total hours required by the oil companies for commanders.

So I don't think its bad management, unless you think it would be good managment to recruit a bunch of pilots during the hard times just so that if/when the boom comes you have more command ready copilots. That would be more like a recipe for bankrupcy.

With Bristow split up into its business units there is far less of the sort of thing that SAS and SP refer to. This advert is paid for by European business unit, for pilots to join that unit. Nigeria can do its own advertising!

[Lplates]

Hi all

A question nearly raised a few posts ago was relevant to my new found circumstances.

How can a FO build the experiance requirements when ocupying a P2 position in order to eventually become a captain.

Surely there must be the ability to record PICUS when the company thinks your ready.

P.S I here Bond are a good company to work for!;)

[SASless]

EC,

Perhaps the question should be answered as to why the Group as a whole had such a turnover rate so as to ensure unfilled vacancies all along in most of the business units thus creating a situation in which there is little cross flow between the various units which would work towards creating long tenured, cross trained, qualified and experienced crews. Bristow management post Alan Bristow have never been accused of being forward thinkers or those prone to take strategic decision making to new art forms.

One would expect a doctor to look at the whole patient and not just the toes when providing a system of long term primary care. Or do I miss something here?

[Eurochopper]

lpates, yes of course you can log PICUS once you have finished line training, typically you would get half the total flying, since you will be PF for roughly half the time. That allows you to get your ATPL, but you still don't have enough hours to meet the oil company requirements for command (3000 hrs total I think) until you have been flying for at least 4 years.

[Eurochopper]

Sasless, I can only speak for Europe having been fortunate never to have ventured into Africa etc, but your question is along the lines of "when did you stop beating your wife" ie a presumption that there have in fact been "unfilled vacancies all along in most of the business units". In Europe, this is certainly not the case, in typical oil industry style we have cycled between having too many and too few pilots in accordance with the cycling demand for our services. For most of the time until recently, there have been no unfilled vacancies in Europe, something which our African workers bemoan when they try to get back to UK.

Perhaps there has been a constancy of unfilled vacancies in Africa, but there are good reasons why that is so! I am certainly glad we don't have managers who "work towards creating long tenured, cross trained, qualified and experienced crews" if that means I would have to do a stint in Nigeria!

But you are right in part - one of the features of the Business Unit structure is that its every BU for itself, and that kind of clashes with the "One world, one team" mantra!

Anyway, you have been out of the company for a long time and I think you would find that your bitterness is less warranted these days.

[BaronG]

lpates, yes of course you can log PICUS once you have finished line training, typically you would get half the total flying, since you will be PF for roughly half the time. That allows you to get your ATPL, but you still don't have enough hours to meet the oil company requirements for command (3000 hrs total I think) until you have been flying for at least 4 years.

Just to add one thing here - you need the Commander's sig. in your log book to count it as PICUS (at least as I remember) - there are some other requirements too but can't remember them off the top of my head. Either way, that means PICUS at the discretion of the A/C commander - so while you may be the handling pilot for some portion of the flight, if the commander isn't interested you cannot log it as PICUS, just P2.

And to answer my own point, this is one way the issue of FO progression can be addressed - assuming the Ops Manual allows for such a thing...

BG.

[check]

SASless,
You sound like my kind of man.......sometimes...however this time I think you have got it wrong. If ten or more qualified pilots turned up next week in Norwich especially AS332 captains there is a job for them.
The big question owever, where are they? CHC and Bond? I don't think there are any unemployed captains lying around - unless they are unemployable.

[tottigol]

I don't think there are any unemployed captains lying around - unless they are unemployable

Ahem! Surprise market, the US GoM.
I believe this surge of openings was driven by a recent development in Norwich, for both the S-76 and Super Puma pipelines.

[parabellum]

Just found an old pay slip/Bank of Bermuda statement. February 1969, Warri, Nigeria, GBP427.00 all found, nirvana! But there was a war on!;)
(John Willis, ex RN, was the CP).