Hsbc Psl

[Emmett01]

Hi all

Was just about to send of my application form toHSBC for the loan which they provide for the training. I am just interested to know how people got on with the process recently, (during the midst of the so called credit crunch (2007/2008)) and what "buttons to push" in the application form. It seems as though the contingincy plan and security, is what they take quite serious. I've tried searching the forum already and found some however the treads where quite some time ago.

im to join Cabair in October/november course so i shod have enough time to apply. Also interested in what steps are involved in the process as I have not had much luck in contacting HSBC with this.

Many thanks in advance and Happy landings

Emmett

[Felix Saddler]

What is your contingency plan may i ask?

[bucket_and_spade]

I'd agree that security and contingency plan are v. important. You might find that the wider world of HSBC are pretty ignorant of the PSL for commercial flight training - it tends to be one or two people at one or two specific branches (e.g. Cornmarket Street, Oxford for OAA students) that know about the specifics of the PSL in this case.

[WQ - ingo]

The Milton Keynes branch that work in cooperation with the cabair ab-initos provide full funding assistance for the integrated course + living expenses provided you have a sound business/contingency plan and have some sort of security.

[WQ - ingo]

Ahh shruggs, a re-read of your initial post would hazard me a guess your probably aware of the above.. I wasn't aware of this scheme until i recently attended a cabair seminar in which they told us about it.

The contingency plan: A decent degree wouldn't do too much harm i suppose, neither would a strong employment history.

[Emmett01]

Thanks for your replies people. Much appreciated..

Yeah just graduated out of uni wit degree in mechanical engineering and have about a years experience working now as a engineer and a ppl, hoping the bank look favourably. so im hoping that, that will be good enough for them. Security,,, well gonna have to ask the parents....:)

Contingincy plan prob to just gain employment back in the engineering industry and by the looks of things that doesnt look a prob, in ireland anyhow.

many thanks

:)

[WQ - ingo]

You have a solid degree, experience in the field, experience in the air and your contingency plan seems sound, as long as your parents can be guarantors you should have no problem in getting the loan.

I personally believe if you perform well in flight school and posses some fairly competent social skills, you shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to finding a job, given your experience and maturity.
Furthermore if you cannot find employment post training, you always have a decent fall back into a well paid job until the industry picks itself up again.

You have covered your back and have gone about training in the best possible way, well done and all the best to you matey! :ok:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

I personally believe if you perform well in flight school and posses some fairly competent social skills, you shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to finding a job, given your experience and maturity.


What a load of tosh, the guys made two posts on here and you are encouraging him to borrow against his mums house in probably the worst downturn in ten years. You are an idiot or work for Cabair :ugh:

Emmett if you are insistent in ignoring people and continue with your training, ensure you borrow another 3 or 4k against your parents house to pay for 1 hour every two months for twin currency, two IR renewals and some sim practise in 24-30 months or so which is when the airlines will be recruiting again. Also factor in two years extra interest and base you repayments on half your anticipated start salary as the best jobs will be going to those who timed their training better and are just graduating "fresh" from your school or Oxford.

Not wanting to hijack your thread, if you do start training then full marks for dogged determination but accept it will be a long while until you get a job.

Truth hurts sorry

[WQ - ingo]

What a load of tosh, the guys made two posts on here and you are encouraging him to borrow against his mums house in probably the worst downturn in ten years. You are an idiot or work for Cabair :ugh:For the very fact he stated he was to join cabair in oct/nov in his initial post i feel your argument above is void.


Emmett if you are insistent in ignoring people and continue with your trainingWhat advice has he ignored? He was seeking advice with regards to assembling an established business and contingency plan. He's backed himself sensibly and has the option of decent employment if things are delayed upon graduation. With the Cabair/HSBC agreement, he has 12months after training to find employment before repayments are to start.

ensure you borrow another 3 or 4k against your parents house to pay for 1 hour every two months for twin currency, two IR renewals and some sim practise in 24-30 months or so which is when the airlines will be recruiting again. Also factor in two years extra interest and base you repayments on half your anticipated start salary as the best jobs will be going to those who timed their training better and are just graduating "fresh" from your school or Oxford.How can you predict when the airlines will be "recruiting again"? If he starts in oct/nov as posted, according to you, 20months down the line, from now, when hes finishing up his JOC/MCC he will be in prime recruitment season? WHAT?

Im sorry your argument is flawed with ambiguities. If it's that you disagree with the integrated route, which seems apparent, don't plague this thread with incoherent insults which are highly unproductive and unnecessary.

Not wanting to hijack your thread, if you do start training then full marks for dogged determination but accept it will be a long while until you get a job.As you said, "Not wanting to hijack" so don't.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

How can you predict when the airlines will be recruiting again?

By your statement you are admitting that the airlines are not presently recruiting then how can you predict the upturn.

Get a grip - its sh1te for wannabees and will be for two years at least, dont encourage others down a rash course of action. Emmett do an IMC, build hours on your salary, do the exams..... when theres the sniff of it picking up again do the CPL and IR in 5 months and be first in the queue.

Dont listen to other wannabees avoid risk right now do yourself a big favour.

Ive seen peeks and troughs twice now

[WQ - ingo]

practise in 24-30 months or so which is when the airlines will be recruiting again.

I was quoting your figure of speech..

Get a grip - its sh1te for wannabees and will be for two years at least, dont encourage others down a rash course of action. Emmett do an IMC, build hours on your salary, do the exams..... when theres the sniff of it picking up again do the CPL and IR in 5 months and be first in the queue.

Dont listen to other wannabees avoid risk right now do yourself a big favour.

Ive seen peeks and troughs twice now

Where is my encouragement? I was merely accrediting his contingency plan, the sole purpose of this thread.

Totalitarianism is not needed here mystic meg..

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Where is my encouragement? I was merely accrediting his contingency plan, the sole purpose of this thread.

Errrrrrrrr........ :ugh::ugh::ugh:

You have a solid degree, experience in the field, experience in the air and your contingency plan seems sound, as long as your parents can be guarantors you should have no problem in getting the loan.

I personally believe if you perform well in flight school and posses some fairly competent social skills, you shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to finding a job, given your experience and maturity.


Now who's mystic meg?

Stick to teaching English. The guy has a solid non aviation job which can support a well thought out modular, No problem with integrated if this was the end of 2004, then I'd be suggesting that you get on any integrated course available - times change, roll with it.....

Mass employment (such as in 2005/6) for wannabees is 3 years away, the early signs of employment if it does happen in your 12-24 month timescale will be very much on the employers terms with paid TR's and crap salaries being offered, so dont expect to pay of a 70k loan on 18k per year when your "plan" is based on 2007/2008 FO salaries and enjoy life much.

Better if able to have the 30k left over to pay for your first crap type rating ouright and be unbonded and then as things improve go for the glory job on the big bucks with some operational experience and heavier a/c time. I know funding is more difficult on modular but not impossible.

How anybody can offer advise to others recommending that somebody else puts their parents house up for security in the current climate is beyond me.

Last post on here about this - many apologies for hijacking the thread, best of British with whatever you decide to do.

[Emmett01]

thansk WQ-ingo, appreciate all your advice even if there are a few f:mad:kin doom glooms on this forum....

I believe that is the only way to possibly get secured at present is through tangential assets aswell. just have totalk nicely to the parents... I think my contingincy plan is steady enough and thank you for the advice on it again much appreciated

G-Spots having the house on the line has no effect as long as i manage to obtain an steady income within the out year they allow to find a job.. Just have to apply engineering jobs as well then. Aswell explain why the next three type rating courses with flybe are full up... must be some recruiting... the house is only there as a precation for the bank until the loan is paid up.... but thanks for your advice aswell... it is a bad time but why not use this bad time to do my training instaed on doing it during a period of high employment... The industry may have recovered by the time ive finished it but it may not... im gonna take the chance because ive a solid back-up plan.....

p.s Im irish so the BEST OF IRSIH!!! !!! :=

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

You have noticed the massive house price crash in the Republic haven't you?

Your plan seems as uncomplicated as borrowing some money to do a full time course and get your parents to guarantee the loan presumably using the house as collateral.

Go right ahead. Ignore the worst trading conditions the industry has ever faced next year. Ignore the increasing price of debt and the decreasing values of the collateral secured against it. Ignore the hummingly bad recruitment market for Wannabes over the next 2 years (I don't predict it - I guarantee it). Ignore a cheaper training route requiring less net debt which will deliver you the market place further into the future at a better time to be delivered.

Ignore all this. I have several old friends still in the flying training business and they need your money fast. The numbers undertaking PPL courses are plummeting. Wide Eyed Wannabes are therefore urgently needed in the flying training industry.

Do not delay - sign a loan agreement immediately.


WWW

[Emmett01]

for starters the house is in the north... secondly they are not crashing down south... get the facts right before you post........

i just wanted advice for it not a sarcasm parade so f:mad:k of to another thread to act da maggot....

if we all listed to www, there wouldnt be any aeroplanes cause there wouldnt be any pilots.....

sounds like u suit ur username......

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Is your first language English or should we be making allowances?


The only difference in house prices either side of the border is the rate at which they are crashing. Its a dead heat between the Spanish Costas, Dublin and Belfast.


WWW

[WQ - ingo]

Stick to teaching English. The guy has a solid non aviation job which can support a well thought out modular

His solid non aviation job could also cater for the repayments needed if he were to go integrated. This isn't a modular versus integrated argument. Both have their pros and cons, but it's up to him how he wants to go about training. Some prefer integrated, others modular, it's a personal matter of opinion.

How anybody can offer advise to others recommending that somebody else puts their parents house up for security in the current climate is beyond me.

As the guy has a solid contingency plan. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The contingency plan seems to consist of nothing more than regaining employment as a graduate engineer based on a basic degree and one years experience.

In a recession (UK and EIRE) I would rate this contingency plan as being as robust as the house of straw. The Wolf will be the bank looking for its PSL repayments and the little piggies will be his parents.

This plan is piss poor and if you don't want to hear that then by all means go right ahead and throw yourself over the cliff. My mates in the training industry need you to do this and you'll find plenty of company. Enjoy.


WWW

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Oh - an WQ - ingo, please quit advising wannabes based on the fact you only decided two months ago to sign up with Oxford because they could sort you out a loan which you couldn't arrange yourself.

You are the credit crunch personified. Spending money on loan simply because its available based on nothing more than blind hope. You don't have a 125% Northern Rock - Together mortgage as well do you?


THIS is how large FTO'f afford free coffee, glossy brochures and receptionists.



WWW

[Emmett01]

well its gud to see some people have some kinda sense (WQ-ingo).... by the way www...

glactar leis an Sacs-Bhéarla mar theanga oifigiúil eile;

naw english isnt............. :D

your wrong ...www...(priocadh)

slan!!!!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

But are you clever enough to speak Welsh?

Son. You came here looking for a bit of advice.

You got some. One bit was from a young know-nothing presently engaged on a loaned Integrated course and he said you were doing the right thing..

Another bit was from a couple of grey haired flying instructors and professional pilots who have watched the industry for a couple of decades. You choose which advice to take. Its no skin of anyones noses here. And its a free service.

I'll be in Derry in a couple of weeks - I might let you buy me a pint.. :)


WWW

[Emmett01]

Thats not welsh,.,,, thats irish..... u know u stuff


what ever,,, all i know that is its a career that ive been workin towards from little years and i aint gonna let some credit crunch ruin it.... so i'll decide...

yeah i did look fior some advice and all i got from '''grey haired''' was a bunch of sarcasm.... nice people..... u prob dnt know where derry is if u though it was in the south....

fat chance lad......wodnt waste the money...after all u did say there was a credit crunch....:ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

No Emmett I used to teach people like you to fly at one of those fancy Integrated schools and nurse you through.

If you think the Bank of Ireland are enjoying the current crisis then you have no idea of the tier 1 capital provisions.

I struggle to see how I could be jealous of you other than your obvious youth.

Congratulations on your First.


WWW

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

And with that Emmett your brief brief PPRuNe career comes to a crashing end.

Good luck in the real world.



WWW

[Emmett01]

fair enough,,,, their are young people like me,,, who wod ignore the current crisis,,, but thats the way it is.... i'll live dnt worry....

nuffin wrong wit engineering,,, there more money in it than flying so.....

[Philpaz]

That would be Londonderry then wouldn't it.
You have a good degree but without some SOLID experience then you dont really have much of a fallback. You may impress the bank enough to splash the cash but if you sit down and do your math yourself will you be able to stay current, pay the loan and buy your beans on toast if it takes you 18 months from finishing to get a flying job? (based on your current salary).
Not wanting to get in to the slanging match as you seem to be drawing the big fish to your oh so small pond, just asking the question.

You should be worrying less about what the banks position will be and more about what yours will be if things start to go tits up.

Paz

[WQ - ingo]

Enough with the antics, it's highly unproductive and significantly selfish, so i apologize on my behalf. As i am not a pilot and have not been there done that, unfortunately i must accept your argument WWW.

I don't disagree with what you are saying and at no point have i said that.
My so called "encouragement" was manufactured with regards to his initial post: "im to join Cabair in October/november course" Where i believe sincerely that he has backed himself correctly and doesn't put himself at a disadvantage to other cadets when it comes to selection, provided he's built of the proper constituents. At no point did i say, 'yeah go for it, it's a brilliant idea'.

I haven't submitted my opinion as i dont feel obliged to oppress it upon another individual who can think clearly for himself.

For your information, i am not a a current APPFO student who recklessly turned up, took the loan, and started training. If you read over my posts you will clearly see this, and the caution i am putting into it.
My primary concerns at the moment are; the rising oil prices and the consequences it may have to the industry, as well as the 'credit crunch', borrowing extortionate amounts of money at a time of economical instability is logically not a wise decision.
I'm merely a clustered wannabe trying to set my foundations good and proper.

My two cents worth - something i haven't contributed with up to now unlike the rest of you, as it wasn't asked of us.

Perhaps you could put if off for a year, go and gain greater experience within your field, save up a bit of cash, build up some hours and most importantly, keep an eager eye on the dynamics of the flying industry. Timing is everything.

This is what i've decided to do, albeit after graduation..

Best of luck matey

WQ.

[camel toe]

Your statement regarding Flybe's TR course being full is not a reliable indicator on its own as they may have a bit of a back log and while they may be recruiting, they might have eased off a bit on newbies. This of course is pure speculation but just be aware that a full TR course is not the sole indicator of an airlines intentions, especially when you consider that you wont be finished for at least 12 months

Tough times still for all but best of luck with whatever you decide.

Fly and borrow safe out there people

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[slackjack]

I'm nothing more than a side-lines lurker but will pass my thoughts here...

I have to agree with WWW somewhat, although emmett01’s enthusiasm is commendable, though a little niave...

So Emmett01, you get your loan (cool 70k or so) you do your course and pass with flying colours (as I'm sure you will going by your University pass – smart fellow) and probably have the time of your life (I sure would!). You send off your CV's and life's rosey, but after 6 months.... Nothing. :confused: You continue to send CV's.... Nothing still :eek:. Hang about… the loan repayments are now needing to be repaid. Frantically you send out droves of CV's like your financial life depends on it - still nothing .

Before you know it CHRISIS! (Or is that Christ!). You need circa 1K per month just to pay your payments! Right time for some real world engineering work, which of course you've been working on the backup job etc - hopefully! We start on maybe... £25k if we're lucky? = £1500 per month ish? Minus your 1K loan leaves you with a couple hundred a month?

But what happens if you're on less, or worse still can't find a job in that field and you are lumbered! You're folks are going to have to bail you out each month or... There house is in serious jeopardy. "Cue Barfing action!"

That is worse case scenario, but... You career happiness can not = your folks home on the rocks!!! I certainly couldn't do it to mine, sorry to sound harsh/dramatic. I know you have to take risks in life and I do, but at MY own risk.

I'll level with you. I'm same age as you, all bar one year. I'm as starry-eyed as you and been trawling this forum for years! However, there's so much wisdom on here that I have learnt from, and know it would be crazy to initiate a plan such as yours right now.

I'm in IT and take about £2200 a month; living with folks so can save about £1400 or so comfortably. Couple years of saving and modular can well be an option with no risks and perhaps the climates may have gotton better.

I seriously, think you should do something similar...

Work you career for a couple years as an engineer! Establish yourself and some reddies! £££. Then you will certainly have a good career to fall back on. At the moment, you have nothing to fall back on, rather a career to start if you had to on bottom wage! (With thousands to pay to Mr HSBC/AIB each month!). And out of interest, university loans???

Like any loan, the 70K will only become real, once you have to start paying it back.

Sorry if I’ve sounded like your dad, but you SERIOUSLY need to weigh this up... It CAN be done so much more safely.

Remember we're only young, there's no rush...

Good Luck

[hollingworthp]

Wise words there from SlackJack.

[MartinCh]

WWW, you don't seem to be true to one of your Ws.
How can you mistake this Gaelic (be it Scottish or Irish) for Welsh? :confused:
And I'm just a foreigner living around UK.

Also, there's people across Irish Sea that call the whole island Ireland and call themselves Irish only. The little hint, 'Derry' is pretty obvious.
Whether they pay with Euro or Sterling.
I can partly understand being born in country that doesn't really exist anymore (division in '93, I'll let you guess if you haven't seen any or my posts elsewhere). Anyway, I still don't get this pseudo-religious haggle.

You know that 'buy now pay later (if)' thinking is what keeps this buy now pay later economy? Becoming US.

Though, me being in such position, I'd just save up a bit more, get personal loan secured against parents house (if they'd allow me anyway) and do modular. My daddies got reasonably valuable house on mainland but my first question about using it as a security couple years ago (hypothetically, then) had very quick answer from mum. My sister gets flat she lives in, I'm getting house as inheritance (in future). No security, no remortgage (it doesn't even work like that there). Guess why?? It's insane with high borrowing amounts.
Otherwise not necessary to put property as security..

[chrisbl]

Emmett,

I will offer some advise. At 22 you have bags of time. I would suggest you take your engineering degree and go to the next level and get Chartered. Whilst you are doing this plan you aviation career through the modular route.

This way you have all your options open to you with no doors closed.

A contingency of being able to drop back into engineering if it all falls through may not be as easy as you think and you will find yourself scrapping with the new graduates whilst having a massive debt.

Sure going for CEng will be tough but you will be in a far better position by the time you finish the modular route as a result of lower debts, less worried parents and a viable alternative career as an engineer.

If you decide at some point during the modular route that its not for you then the cost of dropping out is way less than if you flunked the integrated.

You are an engineer, do the risk analysis!

[MIKECR]

Emmett,

You may wish to look at the Career Development Loan option(Royal Bank of Scotland recognise flight training) as well. Its only 8k maximum that you can borrow but it may help a little, should you have difficulties getting the full amount on a Pro Studies Loan with HSBC. Again, you will need a good business plan(on paper) to give to the bank manager. It may take some convincing given the economic outlook, but thats up to you to paint a rosey picture. Best of luck though and I hope you get the money.