Eastern Airways TR's and cost?

[Finals19]

Without starting a mass bitching session, can someone please confirm to me the current terms and conditions with regard to working for Eastern? Do I understand that if you are successful in selection you have to front up £13K for a Jetstream TR and it is in no way bonded? Furthermore, I assume all new recruitment is to the Jetstream fleet?

My concern is that there is little commitment from the airline if the pilot is to finance the whole TR (note I do not wish to start comparisons with other operators, but this is naturally something to consider!)

Cheers! :ok:

[mikehammer]

Just to clarify, and sorry if I am being a little thick here, is that 12k cash up front, ie you take out your own loan (if needed) in your own name? Or is it a loan in Eastern's name, but you make the payments from your salary?

With the former one would be concerned about any airline going bust leaving you with, let's face it, not the most prolific of ratings in the UK on your license, and a debt of up to twelve grand.

Presumably a F/O salary on a turboprop with Eastern isn't anything special either, I would guess at low twenties, am I right?

I agree, it all sounds a bit steep to me. Supply and demand I suppose, and once again the pilot's the victim of the market.

[jamestkirk]

finals19

Yes its 13K up front in cash and then you are bonded for a year for 8k which i believe is a company agreement without any bank loan tie in.

The bank loan bonding ended last year. Don't ask me why.

The wage increments go up with turo, total time and length of service. No money from salary.

There is a slightly higher basic if you are on the saab.

Good luck if you are going for assessment.

[horsebox]

Jetstream 41 was £12.5k, just risen to £13k. If you go for interview and it says £12.5k on your letter they will honour the deal. Saab is still £15k. Both aircraft are effectively defunct types no longer in production, but likely to be in service for many years to come...

This is all funded by you up front. No payback from eastern, no schemes with banks like they used to do.

On top there is a non reducing 12month "bond" of £8k to cover line training. It reduces to zero 12 months from the sucessful end of your line training.

One of the few positives is that you are put on the payroll on day one of your type rating...

[pipertommy]

How do you get an assessment:ugh:

[MIKECR]

Eastern generally wont entertain people with less than 1000 hours. There will always be the odd exception off course. Like most turboprop operators, they are looking for fast track command potential, hence 1000 hour ex FI's etc are all a good bet.

[pipertommy]

Thanks. Thats fair enough, booked on an FI course next month:ok:

[Finals19]

Thanks for all the info guys. Quite startling information really :eek: I do meet the >1000hrs requirement, but honestly I think there are other options than forking out what seems like £20K odd up front. I understand some people might jump at the chance, but it isn't for me. I've spent enough already.

Good luck to the guys who do go for it though.:ok:

[AlphaMale]

Yes its 13K up front in cash and then you are bonded for a year for 8k

So Ryanair seems like a better deal then? :ugh:

[BerksFlyer]

AlphaMale,

haven't seen you posting for some time! Good to see you're back :ok:

So Ryanair seems like a better deal then?

Except with Eastern you're on the payroll from day one. But then again Ryanair is heavy jet time. Suppose it's personal preference.

[AlphaMale]

haven't seen you posting for some time! Good to see you're back

I'm still prowling the forum :ok: Been busy in work and I'm doing a load of certifications in IT which seems pointless when I'm aiming to be at FL350 ... But I'll have a stronger back up plan should everything go pear shaped.

Given the choice of 738 with Ryan or J41 with Eastern I guess you'd take the slightly more expensive route to get the Jet time from day 1 wouldn't you? Or is that just me? :E

[jamestkirk]

They do have saabs as well, which are pretty cool. They have TV screens/retractable gear and everything.

On a slightly more serious note. Eastern do alot of charters and have alot of oil passengers. In the current climate that is good news. Admittedly, It could go tits up but lets hope not.

I am not sure how the larger holiday charter/budget airlines are going to do over the next year or two. That is not to start a debate, I simply have no idea.

One day aviation will be a secure and well paid career opportunity.:}

[mikehammer]

I don't work for eastern but we use the same hotel as they do. The pilots and cabin crew I have met all seem like a good bunch, I reckon it'd be a good place to work for that reason alone.

The joining fees however put me off, simply don't have the cash.

[Dihaz]

Alpha Male,
On your point about getting jet time with RYR over Saab. Id rather work for a stable airline then fly a shiny new 738 with a company thats constantly in the news (for the wrong reasons), waking up every morning worried whether I still have a job or not!
Besides, if you dont look out the window you would never tell that its not a jet!

Just my tuppence worth........ :-D

[portsharbourflyer]

Alphamale,

Yes you are actually better off going to Ryanair than accepting an outrageous bond on a low salary.

The sector pay deal through Brookfields actually means a Ryanair FO is earning a very similar amount to a Captain at Eastern, experienced FOs at Ryan will be earning more than a Captain at Eastern. Three to four years at Ryanair will see you getting a command, also after about four years at Ryanair you will be close to meeting the hours requirements to apply for Emirates. Furhter to this with time on a 737NG there is always contract work available in most parts of the world. So if you can afford to pay for a rating, joining Ryanair is certainly preferable to most turboprop jobs. Given my time again I would not have become an instructor and would have put the money I spent on my FI ticket towards a rating.
Also consider that to get the 1000 hours required for Eastern you will need to spend a year or two as a full time instructor earning not very much, so to my mind there is no comparison.

[horsebox]

Its really horses for courses. Eastern is a secure option at present, the business is diversifying and unlike Ryanair, has far less exposure to a consumer spending slump.. The downside - its not a shiny new Jet.

You are on the payroll from day 1, no tricks or surprises, if you are willing to put the effort in you should get through the training ok.

The J41 TR is circa £13k, SAAB about £15k paid up-front, you are then bonded for £8k for a year non reducing to cover the cost of line training. After 12 months, the £8k bond becomes zero, you are free to leave the company owing them nothing.

You will get plenty of hours, recieve a high standard of training, get valuable experience, & have your licence unfrozen pretty quickly, if you have the preffered 1000hrs when you join then command can be achieved quickly.

There are a small number of new joiners with low hours, but they generally work for the company in another capacity first - Ops, ground handling etc. Most are ex instructors, air taxi, other ga background.

[Dihaz]

portsharbourflyer you really do not look at other factors do you before coming to a conclusion.
Yes the pay PER HOUR is greater at RYR then T3 but after your crossing your fingers all month that youll get the hours to fly. I had a friend that was compaining the other day because he was only averaging 35hrs a month, THATS JUST UNDER 10HRS A WEEK! and he was complaining that they were holding his last months pay for some reason.
And have you considered portsharbourflyer that there are a hell of a lot of 73 crews and aircaraft on the market because nearly all the companies that have gone bust recently were all 737 operators thus, reducing greatly the value of a 737 rating and especially if the have no hours on type.

Horsebox is quite right, would you like to be in a secure job or an unstable one and fly a shiny jet?

[jamestkirk]

Aviation is a madame of a brothel. And all of us flight crew are the cheap whores. Or if you are lucky, just a lap dancer expected to perform questionable acts for nothing more than a shilling.

But don't worry everyone. Its only kinky the first time.

[Mister Geezer]

Given my time again I would not have become an instructor and would have put the money I spent on my FI ticket towards a rating.


We are all in different positions but I never regret doing my FI rating. I learned a lot from it and did some good flying. It also enabled me to climb the ladder fairly quickly at my last airline since once I moved to the LHS, I was made up to a trainer pretty quickly due to my FI background. Teaching people for a PPL is more useful than you think! :ok:

[portsharbourflyer]

Mister Geezer, yes I enjoyed instructing, it got me invited to several interviews and I was laid off from my turbo prop job early this year. When I consider the pay cut I took to instuct full time, I still feel that staying in my previous job to raise the cash to go to Ryanair would have been a better option. I have several colleagues that I completed CPL/IR training with that went to Ryanair, and I feel that they are now years ahead of me in their flying careers.

Dihaz, ok fair point about job stability, as mentioned everyone circumstances are different, but choice between been bonded again for years on a low salary or paying for a rating to fly a jet, there is no clear cut answer, but for myself I would edge towards the riskier option.

Yes, while there may not be much demand for 737 pilots in Europe there still seems to be a reasonable amount of demand for contract pilots in West Africa and the Far East, with 737 time.


Don't get me wrong I am sure Eastern is a nice place to work, and the only negative thing I have heard about Eastern is the training bond, if I lived in the North it would certainly be an option I would consider (Mrs PHF would divorce me if I ever mentioned relocating to Aberdeen).

[Mister Geezer]

I have several colleagues that I completed CPL/IR training with that went to Ryanair, and I feel that they are now years ahead of me in their flying careers.

It all depends what you define as years ahead. For those that have had the chance to work their way up through instructing and turboprop flying then at the start of your career, it does set you apart from those who go straight onto a jet.

It is interesting to note but I can always tell the difference between those F/Os that have come straight onto a jet and those who have done prop and/or instructional flying!

Never mind relocating to Aberdeen since if you were with Ryanair then you could have found yourself based on the continent and a lot farther away than Aberdeen is! :}

You may regret your choices that you have made to date and when I was on a prop and others that trained with me went straight onto jets then it often provoked some thought. However after a few years on now I do not regret it in the slightest! :ok:

[Dihaz]

PHF, mister geezer is quite right. That same friend of mine at RYR, some week hes in the middle of Poland, then gets sent to Frankfurt-Hahn then sme next place. At least at Eastern we get payed for hotels and stuff when we get sent away. Poor guys have to pay outa their pocket!

[portsharbourflyer]

Dihaz, Mister Geezer, thank you for the replies and I guess to an extent I am just frustrated by my current situation, this time last year I was invited to six interviews (two I didn't attend due to already securing previous offers), had the choice of two jobs and nine months later find myself out of aviation employment with little immediate hope of getting another flying job.

However the silver lining is returning to contract work in my previous career now means in six to nine months I will hopefully clear all my debts from training. This does mean I am quite uncertain as to what to do next, I can't decide between working towards my MEI and IRI in six months time, or wait another 12 months and put the money towards a rating (ie: through Ryanair or Storm). Hence Dihaz, Mister Geezer, I would be keen to hear your advice on this. Bringing the thread back on context of Eastern, if you join Eastern is there any opportunity to opt for a specific base, or is it a case that everyone ends up at Aberdeen initially?

[Dihaz]

Well PHF, ABZ isnt actually that bad but anyhow I do remember you writing about iminent divorce if you did move to ABZ, that rules that out.
Once you gain some seneority and should a place become vacant you shouldnt have much problem in asking to change base. Most of the guys end up at ABZ simply because its their largest base.
Best of Luck..

[Mister Geezer]

Most people at Eastern eventually get a base of their choosing. Some people get it straight away but others may have to do a stint somewhere else to start off with. The process for base changes was rather 'fluid' when I was at Eastern (4 or so years now) and perhaps things are a bit more structured now. The flying at Eastern is reasonably good if your starting out in this game.

Ryanair might appeal since you would be accruing jet time but if you are married then I would urge you to exercise a degree of caution. The majority of people who probably pay for jet type ratings are young and unattached and will probably happily go to Afghanistan or the Congo if they were offered a job there! :} Unless your other half is willing to uproot and move then since you can't move and go to where the work is, then you will be selling yourself short to those people who can move abroad.

However, we are in times when many people are out of a job and I am in the same boat as you at the moment. The best policy is to take the first flying job that you can get that will pay the bills. When things pick up again then we will all be able to be a bit more choosy!

[portsharbourflyer]

If I was single I would be back into full time flying employment tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice Dihaz and Mister Geezer.