Entry Level Laptop Recommendations ?

[2XL]

Am looking at moving into the world of "portability" and there are SO many choices out there. Can you recommend a solid, user friendly, entry level laptop around the £1000 mark.

Intentions are to use it for word processing, data storage and retrieval etc. I will not be running a business etc, purely for private use. I hope to scan many of my "aviation documents" and consolidate all my information at one source.

please post or email me, thanks.

[virgin]

You won't go wrong with a Dell. I've had a few, and never had problems.
Resist the temptation to spend money on state of the art sound and video facilities, memory and processing power you'll never use.
Just a bit more for this, and just a bit more for that, soon adds up!

MS Works which includes the MS Word processing programme comes included. You don't need the full MS Office suite for your purposes, and can always add later if you want to do spreadsheets etc.

I've got a cheap Umax scanner and it does all I want.

The Epson Stylus 680 is on sale at a number of places for £65 (eg Staples). Obviously being sold off to make way for the 780 but fantastic value for money. Large Tesco stores have the Epson 580 for £50, but the extra £15 is much better value.

The small computer names are cheaper than than the likes of Dell, but I've never taken the chance. Dell has a good helpline and after sales service in the unlikely event of you needing either.

[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: virgin ]

[2XL]

Many thanks Virgin, several Dell models come up trumps in recent magazine comparisons as well. I'll look at their website, cheers.

[mutt]

In this part of the world, Dell are selling the 1Ghz Inspiron 2500 Notebook for £1000. So it might be worth checking out their UK website.

[spekesoftly]

My daughter has been using her own Toshiba laptop at University for about a year now. So far, it seems to be standing up well to the rigours of 'student life'. Perhaps a little heavier than some, but good build quality.

[2XL]

Mutt, Dell insert in todays Times so good timing. Thanks.

[Redpanda]

I've had a Dell Inspiron 5000e for 14 months now. It is brilliant! Never had a problem with it. :) :)

Would love to upgrade to the Inspiron 8100, with the 32mb video card!! :D :D

[OverRun]

To add my 2 bobs worth, the machine and brand are largely irrelevant as far as laptops go.

Fact #1 is that laptops fail and will need major repairs during your ownership period.

Fact #2, there is nothing that can be fixed in a laptop without major surgery.

The main criterion for purchase is the dealer. Buy the dealer, and let the rest follow. I've been buying Dell now for a while and will keep on doing so because they are strong in Oz on support for their product. However you could just as easily find an IBM or Toshiba dealer close to where you live, and as good. I'd suggest that you don't buy from an electronics discount store, because they can't give the same level of backup.

I look for a quality certification (ISO 9000) certificate on the wall - no idea why it helps computers, but the computer dealer that's impressed me the most had one. Funnily enough the car dealer that impresssed me the most also had one. Both industries are rather unrelated to ISO 9000 I would have thought. But I know it's hard work to get the ISO 9000 piece of paper, and they must have wanted awfully hard to do things right.

[sanjosebaz]

OverRun: ISO9000 is relevant to any industry.

ISO9000 is about quality management and what a company does to ensure that its products (or services) meet customer requirements. It is tough to gain ISO9000 approval (many written procedures must be in place - yes, including those for handling complaints) and any company worth its salt (including Dell, IBM, ... and their distributors) go out of their way to conform to the standards. It is no surprise that some car dealers follow the standards, too.

By the way - see also BS5750 in UK. Same idea, but a British standard. The above companies are also BS5750 approved.

I disagree with "Fact 2" as it happens. It may not be cheap to fix a laptop, but I have had many repairs done to my IBM T20 ThinkPad, including a cracked screen (leaned on it!), keyboard (spilled Coke on it!) and internal modem+ethernet combo (I think it committed suicide after seeing my treatment of the other components), all of which took less than a day (each) to fix... In fact the modem/ether chip replacement took around 5 minutes. Hardly what could be termed major surgery. They are designed to be fixable (and in most cases upgradeable), even though they may not look like it ;)

[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]

[PPRuNe Towers]

I know no-one will take the slightest notice of this but I'm looking at my notebook now.

Presently plugged in are:

Graphics pad, cordless scrolling mouse, two printers, flatbed scanner, speakers, headset and microphone, shared hard disk, ethernet, phone connection, digital camera, hi-fi and a second monitor.

No IRQ's /interupts, no settings, there aren't aren't any for you to adjust in the first place. It just works.

Internet (2 browsers), email(2 separate systems) complete wp/database/spreadsheet/graphics package built in along with music editing and full stereo digital video editing. Unix operating system opening a seperate kernal for each program.

The machine above comes for a list price of £890 before any bickering and bartering.

Mac iBook - there I've spoiled the dream now for most of you even though it very happily runs (ugh) Windows in a seperate kernal..........

Regards
Rob

PS - Not the usual Mac evangelist: I've built an average of 20 PC's a year for ten years. Switched to Macs because they're now using normal priced PC industry components and a unix based operating system.

[2XL]

Excellent replies so thanks to all. Could I conclude then that £1000 OR less could in fact provide a most adequate set up for my personal needs. Now that is encouraging.

Could I go as low as £800 (incl. Vat ) ??

[Evo7]

Almost certainly; £821 (incl. VAT, £699 excl) gets you an IBM Thinkpad (Celery 700, 64Mb)
http://www.pc.ibm.com/uk/thinkpad_special_offers.html

[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Evo7 ]

[What_does_this_button_do?]

2XL: you can go as low as you want, but then you will get into "yes, you can for £800 but it'll run like a snail".

Suggest you look through MicroMart magazine or something similar.

[2XL]

Has anyone had an ACER.

Looking at following config;
* Intel Celeron 800 MHz Processor
* 64 MB RAM
* 10 GB Hard Drive
* 12.1" TFT Screen
* 56k modem
* CD Rom
* Microsoft Windows Millenium Editio

All of above for £799 incl Vat.

Does this seem reasonable ?

[sanjosebaz]

Careful, EVO7 - The advert police will be after you!

[Eboy]

I use IBM, but see my technically-oriented colleagues use IBMs, Dells and Toshibas in equal proportions.

I like the Sony laptops, but I sense from discussions with their owners that service is a bit more of an ordeal for them.

Relative to dealer support, I have concluded that in the U.S., there is essentially none for IBM laptops. The typical dealer response is "Uhhhhhhh . . .". When there is a problem you call IBM, they express a special box, and you send it in for about a 3-day turnaround. Take it to a dealer and you are looking at a week or more in my experience. (I think a lot of the dealers just send them in as well.) So, look for these types of express-shipping-based service options as well. (And do your backups!)

[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]

[mutt]

Towers

Sounds like a nice set up, but its not very portable is it? :) :) :)

Mutt :)

[stickyb]

Jusr a word of warning about choosing a laptop.

Checkout carefully the inbuilt pointer device (mouse replacement)
There are 2 types - a little nipple somewhere around the g/h/b keys, or a flat pad you slide your finger across.
I personally find the pad very difficult to use under "stress" conditions, like on the move in a plane or car, and if your finger is at all damp or sweaty you can get double bounce or double click without wanting it.
The niplle I find esier to control. (and this isn't ment to be in jet blast!)

[Squiddley]

2XL

Take a good look at Toshiba's website, at their Satellite range. Having sworn off laptops after an expensive foray, I'm swinging back again :D I've spent ages trolling the web for reviews etc., and was surprised that till recently they're the #1 selling manufacturer.

I too want an all-purpose machine for personal use, and like the look of the new 5005-S504 model (5000-100 in UK). Although over the price you mentioned, it has specs way over more expensive models. E.g. PIII 1.1G/512MB RAM.

Have yet to find the catch :D
Good luck.

[2XL]

I am grateful for all the replies thus far. Could I stretch the question to include comments on screen quality.

What screen type do you have or recommend ?

[Evo7]

Make sure the screen is TFT - I'm not sure if the (very) inferior DSTN screens still exist, but they may do on some very cheap laptops. Resolution should be 1024x768.

Apart from that, screen size is a matter of taste, really - 12.1" is a minimum IMHO, and the larger the better. However, larger screens cost more and aren't as light (if that matters). Think about how much time you are going to spend using it, but remember that you can always buy a 17"/19" CRT to plug the laptop into if you're working in one place a lot.

[spekesoftly]

When I researched laptops about a year ago, there were basically two types of screen:-

i) TFT - more expensive, but with better brightness, definition and a wider 'angle of view'.

ii) HPA - more common (then) on cheaper laptops.

Unless light weight and small size are very critical to your needs for portability, look for a screen with the largest viewable area. Screen dimensions quoted by manufacturers can sometimes be deceptive. Laptop screens in general, although designed for the job, should be treated with care.


Pointing Devices (mentioned by StickyB):-

I also prefer the Toshiba type 'nipple', but don't forget that a conventional mouse can easily be plugged in to a laptop for home and office use. (Sorry if this is too obvious).


After care:-

Toshiba Support were very helpful on the two occassions I contacted them with minor problems.

The extended warranties vigorously promoted by retailers on laptops is another minefield.

Good Luck :)


Edit:- Written before I had read Evo7's post, so I apologise for any repetition.

[ 31 October 2001: Message edited by: spekesoftly ]

[Squiddley]

RE: screens, a lot of the "super-duper" claims of resolution refer to the output to a normal monitor, not the laptop screen. From what I've found, most laptop screens will only support up to 1024x768 with 16 bit colour. Anything over that, read the .pdf specs, as it will most likely refer to output [to a monitor]. E.g. XGA, SXGA, UXGA. In this vein, look at graphics hardware. ATI Rage Mobility and GeForce 2 GO are the newest, and are very highly rated. Try and avoid any "shared memory" graphics cards, as they use system RAM (and not terribly efficiently) instead of dedicated, onboard memory.

Size-wise, bear in mind that the screen is one of the largest battery drainers, so depending on how long you'll be away from mains supply, it's important to get the smallest acceptable for your needs. That said, power management utilities do compensate by dimming the screen when on battery power - yet another thing to check in the shop! You could go the way of "hot swappable" drive bays, which accommodate a second battery in place of the CD/DVD drive, but that adds to the cost.

On a different note, whilst browsing the other day a shop owner I've known for years warned me off buying a laptop in the near future, as there are some "big changes" coming out in terms of hardware and prices. Prices of existing models/stock will be cut, making "bargains" easily available.

In his words "I just know that if I bought a laptop and found something much better for the same money soon afterwards, I'd be really pi$$ed off" Whether or not this will turn out to be true is another matter, but the caution was given.

More than I planned to write, but it's not easy being sure you've got all the info you need :D

Cheers.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Prices of TFT screens in the supply route to manufacturers/assemblers have been in freefall for months now. Basic cause was 4 new flat screen production sites coming on line last year.

Massive oversupply has led to companies such as Samsung trying to initiate 'OPEC' type agreements to concentrate on larger desktop displays that still have some margin for them.

Collapse in growth of the desktop industry has meant other component suppliers having to hit the mobile computing sides of their buisnesses with a vengence.

Naturally the prime laptop companies will ride the cash cow as long as they can but there is a huge adjustment in pricing on the way.

Rob

[Tom the Tenor]

Great, Rob, then with any luck I should soon be able to afford one! ;)

[PaulDeGearup]

Whatever you buy dont get a Packard Bell; mine gave up the ghost after 6 weeks use. Neede new motherboard and PSU and well to cut a long story short I now have an Advent fm PC world. 1GHz 14.1 TFT 256 Mb RAM 20Gb Hard drive, 56KModem and ethernet for £1200.

Old laptop bought mail order from Pico stil going strong, used by she who must be obeyed for WP.

[dingducky]

i have an acer laptop. its cool. done all my ppruneing on it :D
it did get a crack in the plastic outer shell. but they fixed it for free, not a problem :)

i like that it has a touchpad, one of my critera for buying a laptop. my friend has a toshiba with the G spot. i don't like them. i find them hard to control and sometimes the mouse went whizzing across the screen with a mind of its own! :eek:

[PPRuNe Towers]

Never could find the G spot let alone control it DD :D :D :

Ooops, excuse me - just off to ban myself for a week.

Rob

[Evo7]

PPRuNe probation, Jetblast and demotion to Member #3 for you Rob... ;)

[2XL]

Looks like the Dell Inspiron 2500 c900ST offers me the most basic product for the least £'s.

I need to order this week so any last minute comments or recommendations most welcome.

[spekesoftly]

With the price of Laptops likely to fall soon (see previous comments), it's a shame you're in a rush to buy!

[2XL]

....softly you are quite right, except that you need to buy and use sooner or later....

[Evo7]

Lets face it, anything you buy will always be out of date next week.... :rolleyes: