I've my training planned. . . some food for thought pls

[INNflight]

Hi everyone,

A couple of months back I (finally!) decided for a FTO and arranged my training with said operator.

Now, the way I laid out things may not be the fastest or most-preferred way, but certainly economic (=not too expensive :ouch:), and I'd very much like to hear some opinions whether it makes sense the way I plan to climb the ladder of licenses. THX already.

It's all modular in case you care, I can't afford the posh OAT or Cabair and the likes (unfortunately maybe).

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1.) I have a GPL (glider pilot license) but no PPL, so the first thing I'll do is getting a FAA PPL in the states. Should not take me any longer than a month, cost is very reasonable.

Now the part I'm a bit unsure about...

2.) I'll stay in the US for about 4-6 months full time, so I decided to keep going straight away and get a FAA CPL, the ME and IFR rating and do some hour building.

3.) I'll return to Austria and get the JAA ATPL over here, mainly because I was told that there's no point in getting a FAA ATPL and then converting that, because I'll have to sit all 14 exams again anyway.

The whole package will cost me between 40 and 55k Euros, depending on how long I stay over there, how much hr building I do extra, if I need any resits, etc etc etc.
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The questions bugging me day and night are:

- converting the FAA CPL (ME IR) to a JAA license.
I was told it's quite a hassle now with all being JAR-OPS, but I just can't afford doing it over here.

- WHERE on earth can I get the exact details WHAT has to be done for the conversion? :sad: I've called and emailed Austrocontrol, who is apparently in charge for converting to an Austrian license, with no success. No response via e-mail and no real answers on the phone.

- I'm aware that doing the CPL theory at first and only after successfully completing that part going for the ATPL theory is a lot of double work and double studies.

People suggest to do the ATPL theory up front and skip the CPL theory because it's more convenient.

I'm not sure I'd want to do that, because I'll have to sit the FAA CPL exams anyway, and apart from that I'd see the double studies as additional training.

Nowadays everyone is worried about first-time ATPL passes and high averages, so I'd think that I would have a lot less difficulties with my ATPLs considering I did a great amount of it already for the CPL?!?!

Feedback and thoughts would be V E R Y appreciated!! :ok:

Thanks, can't wait to start flying with an engine up front actually :}

[lionco]

INNflight

I'll start by saying that I can only comment on the way the UKCAA handle JAR-FCL. I hold a UK issued JAR-ATPL, Fly full time & teach JAR-ATPL ground School part time.

There is a publication called LASORS, issued each year by UKCAA, which outlines all the requirements to obtain various UK issued JAR licences.
Heres the link;
LASORS 2008 | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=175&pagetype=68&gid=780)
You should look at sections A8; D1; E1; G1 & J
In a nutshell!
Assuming you want to end up flying for a European Airline one day, you will need, as a minimum, what is often referred to as a frozen JAR-ATPL.
This means;
1. A pass in all 14 JAR-ATPL theoretical subjects.
2. Pass a JAR-CPL flight test
3. Pass a JAR Instrument flight test
(There is, of course the class 1 medical & a language proficiency test too)

One can achieve the first two at a JAR approved flight school in the USA but the IR must be done in a JAR state.
I hope this helps, it may require you to think again about your chosen FTO

[INNflight]

thanks very much lionco!!!

I have seen lasors previously, but didn't check precisely because it is UK-orientated, even though I think JAR member states regulations should be very similar.

I knew that the CPL flt test and IR flt test in a JAR country is required for a license conversion, just don't really know how much of a hassle that is?

I'd love to get feedback from someone who did the FAA CPL conversion to JAA, unfortunately I only know one person, and he did that before JAR OPS came into play.

The main reason I want to go the converting route is because the FTO I plan to attend is being recommended to me from all ends over here.

It's not approved to do JAA licenses training, but fairly small and the owner apparently is an incredible instructor. That's what I heard.
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I can't afford to pay 100k plus for my licenses, and working and saving enough for that would put me back lots of years I guess. :uhoh:
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As I said, all costs added up will have me in the 40-45k range, and I have about 55 to spend, so converting costs would not be an issue.
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Thank you very much again!
INNflt

[lionco]

INNflight
If you came to UK with a fresh new FAA CPL Multi IR you would need to;
(LASORS D1.5)
1. Complete the JAR-ATPL ground school course & pass all 14 exams
2. Complete CPL training as required by a JAR FTO and pass a JAR-CPL flight test.
3. Complete IR training as required by a JAR FTO(min 15hrs of which 10 hrs FNPTII and 5 hs A/C) and pass a JAR-IR flight test

Once again 1 & 2 can be achieved in the USA but 3 must be done in the UK or another JAR country.

[INNflight]

thanks once again lionco, and apologies for not getting it the first round :ok:

I assume from a logical point of view it would be best to get my fATPL before said CPL conversion?

Otherwise, acc. to lasors I'd have to pass all theoretical JAR-FCL tests for the JAA CPL again, and then start all over with the ATPL?

Would make more sense to get a JAA ATPL before converting the CPL, and apologies if that was the point you were trying to get across :O

Very much appreciated!